confused on augmented & diminshed

[b_ryceeeee]

so i have the book "harmony and theory a comprehensive source for all musicians" and i'm on the interval chapter and im a little confused on the exercise when you have tell if the interval is diminished or augmented .

if anyone as this book i would greatly appreciate the help.

[wades_keys]

so i have the book "harmony and theory a comprehensive source for all musicians" and i'm on the interval chapter and im a little confused on the exercise when you have tell if the interval is diminished or augmented . if anyone as this book i would greatly appreciate the help.

 

Don't have the book, sorry.

 

Give some more specifics about the exercise and probably someone can help you.

[jasper383]

You don't have diminished or augmented intervals. An interval is the distance between two notes; a major third, a minor seventh, etc. Hit two notes on the piano, you just made an interval.

 

Augmented and diminished are most simply flavors of three note chords. Hit any three notes on the piano, you just made a chord.

 

An augmented chord is most simply made by taking a note, adding the major third above it, then the major third above the second note. Ex: C, E, G# is a C augmented chord. Aug chords, to me at least, sound "wide open" or "bright."

 

A diminished chord is made by taking a note, adding the minor third above it, then the minor third above the second note. Ex: C, E flat, G flat is a C diminished chord. They sound "sad" and "compressed" to my ears.

[Brother Mango]

so i have the book "harmony and theory a comprehensive source for all musicians" and i'm on the interval chapter and im a little confused on the exercise when you have tell if the interval is diminished or augmented . if anyone as this book i would greatly appreciate the help.

 

augmented is raised a 1/2 step. diminished is lowered a 1/2 step.

 

What's the exercise?

[wades_keys]

 

You don't have diminished or augmented intervals . An interval is the distance between two notes; a major third, a minor seventh, etc. Hit two notes on the piano, you just made an interval. Augmented and diminished are most simply flavors of three note chords . Hit any three notes on the piano, you just made a chord. An augmented chord is most simply made by taking a note, adding the major third above it, then the major third above the second note. Ex: C, E, G# is a C augmented chord. Aug chords, to me at least, sound "wide open" or "bright." A diminished chord is made by taking a note, adding the minor third above it, then the minor third above the second note. Ex: C, E flat, G flat is a C diminished chord. They sound "sad" and "compressed" to my ears.

 

 

There are augmented and diminished intervals:

 

0 Perfect Unison Diminished second

1 Minor second Augmented unison

2 Major second Diminished third

3 Minor third Augmented second

4 Major third Diminished fourth

5 Perfect fourth Augmented third

6 Tritone Augmented fourth

Diminished fifth

7 Perfect fifth Diminished sixth

8 Minor sixth Augmented fifth

9 Major sixth Diminished seventh

10 Minor seventh Augmented sixth

11 Major seventh Diminished octave

12 Perfect octave Augmented seventh

 

The most commonly seen diminished interval is the blue note, otherwise known as the flatted fifth - EG in the key of C: C, Gb.

 

Note that the augmented 4th is enharmonically equivalent (same note): C, F#.

[jasper383]

 

There are augmented and diminished intervals: 0 Perfect Unison Diminished second 1 Minor second Augmented unison 2 Major second Diminished third 3 Minor third Augmented second 4 Major third Diminished fourth 5 Perfect fourth Augmented third 6 Tritone Augmented fourth Diminished fifth 7 Perfect fifth Diminished sixth 8 Minor sixth Augmented fifth 9 Major sixth Diminished seventh 10 Minor seventh Augmented sixth 11 Major seventh Diminished octave 12 Perfect octave Augmented seventh The most commonly seen diminished interval is the blue note, otherwise known as the flatted fifth - EG in the key of C: C, Gb. Note that the augmented 4th is enharmonically equivalent (same note): C, F#.

 

 

Ah, yes. Thank you. You bring me back to my college music days.

 

Those are pretty rarely used, though. You are far more likely to see something referred to as a "minor second", rather than an "augmented unison."

 

I am probably confusing b_ryceeeee terribly.

[wades_keys]

Ah, yes. Thank you. You bring me back to my college music days. Those are pretty rarely used, though. You are far more likely to see something referred to as a "minor second", rather than an "augmented unison." I am probably confusing b_ryceeeee terribly.

Yeah, me too.

 

I should study some harmony - I've got more of a performer's mindset when it comes to theory.

[b_ryceeeee]

in the book it is exercise 3 under building ascending intervals and it basically gives you treble clef and bass clef and they pretty much give you the first note and tell you to indicate the interval above the notes. im stuck on one that's on bass clef and the the note given is Eb and it wants me to indicate a diminished 5th above it.

[wades_keys]

 

in the book it is exercise 3 under building ascending intervals and it basically gives you treble clef and bass clef and they pretty much give you the first note and tell you to indicate the interval above the notes. im stuck on one that's on bass clef and the the note given is Eb and it wants me to indicate a diminished 5th above it.

 

 

First - find the fifth above Eb, then flat it.

 

Remember your major scale intervals - repeat these until you know em cold (w = whole step, h = half step)

 

w, w, h, w, w, w, h

 

Now analyze other ways of looking at this interval - how many semi-tones are there between Eb and the diminished fifth?

 

(Hint: the answer is in this thread already)

[jonathan_matos5]

There are augmented and diminished intervals: 0 Perfect Unison Diminished second 1 Minor second Augmented unison 2 Major second Diminished third 3 Minor third Augmented second 4 Major third Diminished fourth 5 Perfect fourth Augmented third 6 Tritone Augmented fourth Diminished fifth 7 Perfect fifth Diminished sixth 8 Minor sixth Augmented fifth 9 Major sixth Diminished seventh 10 Minor seventh Augmented sixth 11 Major seventh Diminished octave 12 Perfect octave Augmented seventh The most commonly seen diminished interval is the blue note, otherwise known as the flatted fifth - EG in the key of C: C, Gb. Note that the augmented 4th is enharmonically equivalent (same note): C, F#.

 

 

 

DING! DING! DING!

 

TELL THE MAN WHAT HE WON!!!

[Optimus Prime]

Holy {censored}! I actually knew the answer. I guess this music theory class is paying off.

[wades_keys]

DING! DING! DING! TELL THE MAN WHAT HE WON!!!

A new car!

[jonathan_matos5]

A new car!

 

no but my neighbor might be willing to give you his old Taurus.

 

it needs a new radiator, power steering pump, transmission, and muffler.

[b_ryceeeee]

so if i was writing it on a staff it would have two flat signs in front it since its Bb

[jonathan_matos5]

so if i was writing it on a staff it would have two flat signs in front it since its Bb

 

yes and no, yes because that is how the chord is spelled, but no because the key states that B is already flat; so your accidental will be one flat before the note thus notating a double flat.

 

whew! try saying that five times fast.

[b_ryceeeee]

okay awesome idk about saying that five times fast haha but i get, thanks. so its pretty much the same deal for descending intervals then?

[jonathan_matos5]

okay awesome idk about saying that five times fast haha but i get, thanks. so its pretty much the same deal for descending intervals then?

 

no reverse is so, the pitches although closer together would be the same as the list above but backwards.

 

it is down a minor 2nd but up a major7th

down a major 2nd but up a minor7th etc.

 

here is a tip. it should add up to 9

 

up a 5th = down a 4th:)

[i_wanna_les_paul]

After reading this thread, I feel confused, augmented and diminished...

[wades_keys]

yes and no, yes because that is how the chord is spelled, but no because the key states that B is already flat; so your accidental will be one flat before the note thus notating a double flat. whew! try saying that five times fast.

Slightly incorrect; a double-flat is always notated with 2 flats in front of the note, regardless of if the note is already flatted in the key signature.

 

http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/textd/Doubleflat.html

 

It should also be noted that a double flat will always be shown with two flat symbols, regardless of the key signature. For example, if the current key signature shows one flat (i.e. a B-flat in the key of F Major), adding one flat symbol to a B-flat on the third line of the staff would not create a double flat. Only the addition of the second flat symbol to that note would indicate a double flat.

[isaac42]

 

Slightly incorrect; a double-flat is always notated with 2 flats in front of the note, regardless of if the note is already flatted in the key signature. http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/textd/Doubleflat.html

 

 

That's what I was thinking, too.

[wades_keys]

Extra credit Question: Given the above exercise, why notate a double flat rather than the easier-to-read A natural?

 

What are the advantages, and which is more "correct"?

[bnyswonger]

 

Extra credit Question: Given the above exercise, why notate a double flat rather than the easier-to-read B natural? What are the advantages, and which is more "correct"?

 

 

The double flat is more correct as it's more within the key. And the real note would be A, not B. There is no A natural within the key of Eb, so you have the Bbb.

[Bottom End]

My piano teacher tried to pound music theory into my brain at a very tender age. That's why I play rock. :poke:

[wades_keys]

And the real note would be A, not B.

 

You caught me sleeping at the wheel...

 

The explanation I often hear for choosing to notate a double flat vs. it's equivalent natural (in this case, A), is that the harmonic function of that note is more clear.

 

An A natural would indicate a raised 4th degree; the B double flat clearly indicates a flatted fifth.

[isaac42]

 

Extra credit Question: Given the above exercise, why notate a double flat rather than the easier-to-read B natural? What are the advantages, and which is more "correct"?

 

 

What bnyswonger said. The Bbb is more correct. The advantage is theoretical and notational, for the most part. If it were written as an A natural rather than a Bbb, then the chord would be changed, even though the actual pitches played remain the same.