Members King Kashue Posted May 22, 2009 Members Share Posted May 22, 2009 No kidding? It doesn't matter what the truth is. Perception is reality. One person's perception does not a reality make... I.e., just because you've got it wrong doesn't mean everyone else does as well...:poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted May 22, 2009 Moderators Share Posted May 22, 2009 One person's perception does not a reality make...I.e., just because you've got it wrong doesn't mean everyone else does as well...:poke:I wasn't addressing "one person's" perception. I'm sorry you don't understand it doesn't matter who is actually responsible. What matters is who the current captain of the ship is. Currently, that's Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted May 22, 2009 Members Share Posted May 22, 2009 I wasn't addressing "one person's" perception. I'm sorry you don't understand it doesn't matter who is actually responsible. What matters is who the current captain of the ship is. Currently, that's Obama. Really? Just like people totally forgot that the Great Depression started under Hoover? Oh, they didn't forget? That fact is mentioned in every history book on the subject? In fact, Hoover gets a disproportionate level of the blame while FDR is primarily remembered not for the problem, but the solution? Hrm, I guess that thought requires a little more simmering and cogitating before it's ready to be posited publicly...:poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted May 22, 2009 Moderators Share Posted May 22, 2009 Really? Just like people totally forgot that the Great Depression started under Hoover?Oh, they didn't forget? That fact is mentioned in every history book on the subject? In fact, Hoover gets a disproportionate level of the blame while FDR is primarily remembered not for the problem, but the solution?Hrm, I guess that thought requires a little more simmering and cogitating before it's ready to be posited publicly...:poke:There's a reason the Obamites keep trying to link Bush, Inc to all the woes of America. You can keep posting little smart@$$ comments all day long in your posts. It doesn't change that the Prez came swooping in promising hope and change. That big stimulus package has put him on the hook for the economy at this point, regardless of who was truly responsible for TARP, housing bottom, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted May 22, 2009 Moderators Share Posted May 22, 2009 Oh, and while we're at it, regarding Hoover/Roosevelt. The comparison isn't even valid. Hoover was POTUS for almost 3 years of the Depression. This crisis took place in Bush's final months. Not even close to being apples to apples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted May 22, 2009 Members Share Posted May 22, 2009 There's a reason the Obamites keep trying to link Bush, Inc to all the woes of America. You can keep posting little smart@$$ comments all day long in your posts. It doesn't change that the Prez came swooping in promising hope and change. That big stimulus package has put him on the hook for the economy at this point, regardless of who was truly responsible for TARP, housing bottom, etc. See, I just think this is flat out wrong. Sweeping change doesn't happen overnight and all this {censored} did come to the forefront under Bush. To argue otherwise just isn't correct. I do agree that his spending is out of control. As long as the government's dip into private America is only because the company is getting bailout money, I'm fine with that too... As long as it's only temporary and only because they got bailout money. I mean hell... If a private investor invests in a company they have a say in its operations... Why would the government be treated any differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted May 22, 2009 Moderators Share Posted May 22, 2009 See, I just think this is flat out wrong. Sweeping change doesn't happen overnight and all this {censored} did come to the forefront under Bush. To argue otherwise just isn't correct.I'm not arguing "otherwise." I'm not sure how much more clear one can be than to have readily admitted that this occurred on the previous POTUS watch (at least 2 times, if not more). It doesn't matter. 9/11 happened under Bush. Regardless of Clinton being a wimp on terrorism, Bush gets the bulk of the share of responsibility. At this point now, Obama is in charge of a troop surge in Afghanistan. He's responsible as to whether or not it fails. Did Bush get us in? Yep. Getting out of there with success is up to Obama. Again, it's all Bush's fault is a great nail to keep hammering. That way, as nothing changes in DC, the little people actually believe there is someone else to blame and it's not the guy in the White House. Perception is more important than the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted May 22, 2009 Members Share Posted May 22, 2009 I'm not arguing "otherwise." I'm not sure how much more clear one can be than to have readily admitted that this occurred on the previous POTUS watch (at least 2 times, if not more). It doesn't matter. 9/11 happened under Bush. Regardless of Clinton being a wimp on terrorism, Bush gets the bulk of the share of responsibility. At this point now, Obama is in charge of a troop surge in Afghanistan. He's responsible as to whether or not it fails. Did Bush get us in? Yep. Getting out of there with success is up to Obama. Again, it's all Bush's fault is a great nail to keep hammering. That way, as nothing changes in DC, the little people actually believe there is someone else to blame and it's not the guy in the White House. Perception is more important than the facts. ...and 9/11 was Clinton's fault is a nail the right keeps hammering when it's pretty wrong. http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020812/story.html ...and Clinton wasn't a wimp on terrorism. http://makethemaccountable.com/myth/ClintonAndTerrorism.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted May 22, 2009 Members Share Posted May 22, 2009 Oh, and while we're at it, regarding Hoover/Roosevelt. The comparison isn't even valid. Hoover was POTUS for almost 3 years of the Depression. This crisis took place in Bush's final months. Not even close to being apples to apples. The recession began in 2007. That's over a year's worth of "final months". The issue of Fannie and Freddy was raised in 2003. If Hoover is on the hook for not preventing the slide into Depression after the Market Crash, do you really think Bush won't be on the hook for failing to prevent the housing bubble burst? Now, it's absolutely unfair to blame him, since he tried to increase regulations, but was shouted down by that word-slurring joke Barney Frank, but as you note, it happened on his watch...which is the important thing, right? In other words: "I'm sorry you don't understand" that I'm not disagreeing with your statement that what gets remembered is the President who happened to be in office...what I'm disagreeing with is that people are going to forget who was actually in office (which is exactly what you're suggesting when you put Obama "on watch" instead of Bush)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted May 22, 2009 Members Share Posted May 22, 2009 At this point now, Obama is in charge of a troop surge in Afghanistan. He's responsible as to whether or not it fails. Did Bush get us in? Yep. Getting out of there with success is up to Obama. Again, it's all Bush's fault is a great nail to keep hammering. Nixon did an amazing job of taking credit for the solution in Vietnam and passing blame on the problems...Even when it was his policy failing, he was always able to pass the buck back to LBJ... Obama is absolutely responsible for the ending (especially since he's explicitly taken ownership of the issue), but being currently "responsible" does not mean that Obama will "bear the responsibility" for the whole shebang when it comes to memory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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