POS Rig Vs. Top of the Line Rig

[L-1329]

So should a player who's not in a regular band, or even one who is but the band is not in the situation to invest in pa/IEM gear, not invest in a great bass rig? I would bet that with most bands IF there is a pa then it is owned by one person, not a band collective. For the people in bands without an owned pa, dollars spent on quality gear is just fine. I love how it's always looked down on when someone spent $X on an expensive high end rig. So what? Even if it all sounds the same out in the house through a pa so what? It's their money.

[Renfield]

 

So should a player who's not in a regular band, or even one who is but the band is not in the situation to invest in pa/IEM gear, not invest in a great bass rig? I would bet that with most bands IF there is a pa then it is owned by one person, not a band collective. For the people in bands without an owned pa, dollars spent on quality gear is just fine. I love how it's always looked down on when someone spent $X on an expensive high end rig. So what? Even if it all sounds the same out in the house through a pa so what? It's their money.

 

 

I play better when I am happy about my own tone. That's all the justification I need.

[JeffBass]

 

I've seen this happen first hand too. I saw a kiddie metal band playing a festival with these old beat-to-{censored} Peaveys and Ibby's. Then the next guys up were a geezer rock band using an Eden and a Lakland. To everyone in the crowd, there was no difference in the bass sound. I've heard a similar thing with a guitarist that was running a Line 6 Flextone and another that was using this really killer old Fender tube combo. There was no audible difference in the crowd.

 

 

Not sure about that. One of the area's best soundmen (around my parts) says he can only do so much for bands with crappy gear. I talk to him quite often, he's a big fan of quality gear because it makes his job easier. I helps that players with quality gear are usually very good players of course.

I want to add that great gear doesn't always mean BIG gear. Some of the best sounding bands I've heard have smaller amps but they are very good smaller amps. Not always the case though, I love a good 810 SVT stack when in the right hands. Guys who use these "fridge" amps usually jack it up pretty loud too because that's when the tone happens.

Style a music plays a role also, I wouldn't expect some guy from a punk/metal band to have the same requirements as a guy from a jazz band. The feel, the impact, everything is different so there's no single rule that fits everybody. My last band was a classic/hard rock band so that's where I'm coming from. Feel was important because the band fed off the "pulse" of the rhythm. It's not just about "hearing".

[Zeromus-X]

Oh, I agree that it's their money and they can do what they want. It's just {censored}ing stupid to do.

 

Rather than spend $3k on a bass rig, why not put that towards a decent PA? Or at least some good subs and a big poweramp to supplement whatever PA you're running. Yes, two big subs and a poweramp will be more of a pain to move around than a good bass rig, but you'll be helping the sound of the whole band instead of just the bassist's tone.

[L-1329]

 

I play better when I am happy about my own tone. That's all the justification I need.

 

 

Agree 100%

[In Absentia]

 

Not sure about that. One of the area's best soundmen (around my parts) says he can only do so much for bands with crappy gear. I talk to him quite often, he's a big fan of quality gear because it makes his job easier. I helps that players with quality gear are usually very good players of course. I want to add that great gear doesn't always mean BIG gear. Some of the best sounding bands I've heard have smaller amps but they are very good smaller amps. Not always the case though, I love a good 810 SVT stack when in the right hands. Guys who use these "fridge" amps usually jack it up pretty loud too because that's when the tone happens. Style a music plays a role also, I wouldn't expect some guy from a punk/metal band to have the same requirements as a guy from a jazz band. The feel, the impact, everything is different so there's no single rule that fits everybody. My last band was a classic/hard rock band so that's where I'm coming from. Feel was important because the band fed off the "pulse" of the rhythm. It's not just about "hearing".

 

 

I understand, but I'm not saying that these bassists were given what they needed from the soundman, just what sounded good to his ears. Most likely what happened was they were both ran through the same DI with and it colored the sound to the point that neither bass was discernable.

[T. Alan Smith]

Oh, I agree that it's their money and they can do what they want. It's just {censored}ing stupid to do. Rather than spend $3k on a bass rig, why not put that towards a decent PA? Or at least some good subs and a big poweramp to supplement whatever PA you're running. Yes, two big subs and a poweramp will be more of a pain to move around than a good bass rig, but you'll be helping the sound of the whole band instead of just the bassist's tone.

 

You DO realize that all your sensibility is taking the fun out of rock n roll.

[L-1329]

 

Oh, I agree that it's their money and they can do what they want. It's just {censored}ing stupid to do. Rather than spend $3k on a bass rig, why not put that towards a decent PA?

 

 

Because it doesn't make sense for every player. {censored}in stupid? Hardly. How many people can justify the space needed, the transportation neccessary for all that gear, when all they do is play in a band here and a band there? If you want to be a near full time or regular show of your own then that's one thing, but for a whole lot of other players buying an entire pa would be {censored}in stupid, as you put it, especially since so many places would have a usable pa already.

[Renfield]

 

Because it doesn't make sense for every player. {censored}in stupid? Hardly. How many people can justify the space needed, the transportation neccessary for all that gear, when all they do is play in a band here and a band there? If you want to be a near full time or regular show of your own then that's one thing, but for a whole lot of other players buying an entire pa would be {censored}in stupid, as you put it, especially since so many places would have a usable pa already.

 

 

Outside of the times where my band rented an empty hall and put on a show I've never once in my entire career played in a situation where we even had the option of using our own PA, let alone required it.

 

Therefore I'd be spending my money on my gear to make me sound the way I want too. If that's {censored}ing stupid of me, then I'm the King of the Idiots.

[L-1329]

 

Outside of the times where my band rented an empty hall and put on a show I've never once in my entire career played in a situation where we even had the option of using our own PA, let alone required it. Therefore I'd be spending my money on my gear to make me sound the way I want too. If that's {censored}ing stupid of me, then I'm the King of the Idiots.

 

 

Which is exactly my point to Z-x. Everyone does not need a pa, and lots of us invest in our own rigs. There is not one thing stupid about that.

[Kindness]

I gigged for years with nothing more than a bass a cable a tuner and a DI box. Every show I played had a PA for the room and quality feedback for me and the band. It would have been {censored}ing stupid for me to spend a dime on PA gear since there wasn't a single stage in those years that I would have been able to set up my own PA, nor was there one I could have out classed.

 

I agree that it is inefficient to spend money on a backline if you supply the PA, but I also believe that it is inefficient to spend money on a front line when you never use it. That all comes down to playing circumstances. In this area, rigs are for rehearsal and stage monitoring and PAs are supplied by the clubs.

[t3ch]

Yeah I'm all for bands being happy with PA's and IEM's and etc., but there seems to be a blind devotion to them on here lately, and it's reaching the point of being ridiculous and annoying.

 

I like my rig, I play with my PA-less band, my guitarist likes to jack with his stack, I like to jack with mine, and we have fun. I don't want/need to buy a PA, and I'm sure everyone else would feel the same.

[mlwarriner]

Rather than spend $3k on a bass rig, why not put that towards a decent PA?

 

because in about 10 years of gigging, i've played exactly one show where the band was required to provide the PA.

 

[Zeromus-X]

If you're in a situation that doesn't facilitate buying a PA, that's fine. Spending $3k on your own rig is still "{censored}ing stupid" in my (and other people's obviously) opinion. Get yourself a nice bass that sounds the way you want it and something to hear it. I can't imagine spending more than about $1k on a bass rig and that's including the bass -- unless I was in a position where that amount would be "necessary" (i.e. the bass as a status symbol, a sponsorship situation, a non-conventional bass such as a 6/7-string or a Quake, etc). Obviously if you want to play a 12-string fretless bass and need an amp that goes down to 20 Hz -3dB, then yeah, it'll cost you more. But if you're playing in bars, you don't need that.

 

My "bar rig" would be a bass in the $400-$500 range (something that looks good on stage, sounds decent, and you won't be afraid to gig with it), a SansAmp DI (or Countryman if you want a clean signal), and a powered floor monitor. Done. Walk in with the bass in one hand, the monitor in the other, and the DI and cable in your pocket.

[bassplayer7770]

because in about 10 years of gigging, i've played exactly one show where the band was required to provide the PA.

 

Where my band plays, some venues do provide good PA systems. Other times, we hire somebody to provide their nice PA and run it for us. It works out great IMO because I have no desire to lug around a PA system, and anytime our singer/rhythm guitarist doesn't have to run sound it's for the best because he gets really grumpy.

[cobrahead1030]

this is coming from a guitarist's perspective, so the whole tone issue is dramatically different...but in the circuits i typically play in the clubs ALWAYS provide the PA & soundguy, and you don't have much of an option to bring your own; which means you have to be prepared for any type of situation for every gig

 

you don't have to spend several thousand by any means, but it's important to have a good sounding live rig...the audience may not know the difference between an ampeg b2 v.s. a mesa big block head, but the amp you use is a part of what they hear from the band overall...and they know when one band on a bill sounds better/worse than the others, even if they can't tell you why

 

when you're trying to make your money by building a following and merch sales, you need to be that band who sounds better than the others...again tho i'm a guitarist, and one who plays metal at that, getting a heavy but clear tone onstage is never an easy task, especially when you've got two guitars going

[Kindness]

 

If you're in a situation that doesn't facilitate buying a PA, that's fine. Spending $3k on your own rig is still "{censored}ing stupid" in my (and other people's obviously) opinion.

 

 

Is it less stupid than a 3k pair of shoes?

[Zeromus-X]

because in about 10 years of gigging, i've played exactly one show where the band was required to provide the PA.

 

Unless the clubs near you have an installed system, SOMEONE was required to provide the PA. If the club hires out for PA work for their gigs, why not have them hire yours? You'll be making more money than probably all the other bands that night combined in that case if you're playing originals, too.

 

Obviously if all your bars and clubs have installed sound this isn't an issue. Out of the 50 or so places we have routinely played, exactly one has had an installed system.

[Renfield]

 

Obviously if all your bars and clubs have installed sound this isn't an issue. Out of the 50 or so places we have routinely played, exactly one has had an installed system.

 

 

That has to be a cultural thing. I can't honestly say I have never once set foot in a club that caters to live music that didn't have it's own permanent system in house. Ever.

[Zeromus-X]

 

Is it less stupid than a 3k pair of shoes?

 

 

If you're comparing similar situations, then no, it's just as stupid. I wouldn't go to work in $3,000 shoes, just like I wouldn't play a bar gig with a $3,000 bass rig. If you have a specific reason to spend that much on shoes, then it becomes a necessity, not a desire (if you're a CEO of a billion dollar company, your job necessitates that you don't walk around in $50 Nikes). But there's never a "necessity" for a $3,000 bass rig. Play on the biggest stages in the world or the smallest coffeehouse corners and you never need more than a small combo or wedge. The small clubs won't need more than that and the bigger places have enough reinforcement to cover the room already.

[JeffBass]

You DO realize that all your sensibility is taking the fun out of rock n roll.

 

Yeah, listen to T. Alan! He takes up half the stage with his Markbass LMII / Bergie 112 monster rig!!

[Renfield]

If you're comparing similar situations, then no, it's just as stupid. I wouldn't go to work in $3,000 shoes, just like I wouldn't play a bar gig with a $3,000 bass rig. If you have a specific reason to spend that much on shoes, then it becomes a necessity, not a desire (if you're a CEO of a billion dollar company, your job necessitates that you don't walk around in $50 Nikes). But there's never a "necessity" for a $3,000 bass rig. Play on the biggest stages in the world or the smallest coffeehouse corners and you never need more than a small combo or wedge. The small clubs won't need more than that and the bigger places have enough reinforcement to cover the room already.

 

What if you play a deep stage like an arena? I thought it was perfectly justified paying the money for an SVT and 810 at that point in my career. I needed throw, I needed volume. A small combo or wedge wouldn't have cut it by any means.

 

A full SVT and fridge will set you back upwards of $3k, clearly every person who ever bought an SVT is {censored}ing stupid.

[Zeromus-X]

 

That has to be a cultural thing. I can't honestly say I have never once set foot in a club that caters to live music that didn't have it's own permanent system in house. Ever.

 

 

We play anywhere from the DC area (Maryland/Northern VA) down to Nags Head (North Carolina shore). We cover probably a 350 mile range with our gigs. Aside from stadium and amphitheater shows, and clubs that have 1,000+ capacity, two places to my knowledge have had an installed system -- Club Tribeca in Newport News, and some place out at the Oceanfront that ran you through the house sound system so that they could hear you in the bathrooms and on the deck outside, which I don't consider a "PA system" for a band anyway, really.

 

Any other place that had a PA that I've played, the PA was run by a sound company who was hired by the club. And once they found out we had our own system, that was just less they had to spend on sound and more they could pay us.

[Zeromus-X]

What if you play a deep stage like an arena? I thought it was perfectly justified paying the money for an SVT and 810 at that point in my career. I needed throw, I needed volume. A small combo or wedge wouldn't have cut it by any means. A full SVT and fridge will set you back upwards of $3k, clearly every person who ever bought an SVT is {censored}ing stupid.

 

You're playing arenas and you didn't have a monitor system on stage that could handle a bass?

 

What is this, Billy Bob's Backyard Arena and Rodeo?

[Kindness]

 

If you're comparing similar situations, then no, it's just as stupid. I wouldn't go to work in $3,000 shoes, just like I wouldn't play a bar gig with a $3,000 bass rig. If you have a specific reason to spend that much on shoes, then it becomes a necessity, not a desire (if you're a CEO of a billion dollar company, your job necessitates that you don't walk around in $50 Nikes). But there's never a "necessity" for a $3,000 bass rig. Play on the biggest stages in the world or the smallest coffeehouse corners and you never need more than a small combo or wedge. The small clubs won't need more than that and the bigger places have enough reinforcement to cover the room already.

 

 

I'm with you on the point that, if you are budgeting based on strict necessity, you don't need to spend 3k on a rig. However, if you extend the judgment to criticizing people's discretionary spending, you totally lose me.