I'm the best timekeeper in the band. And I'm the guitarist.

[Lurko]

My drummer and I were trying to lay some basics with a click today. Christ on a crutch what a disaster. I had to have them finally just cut the click out of my phones and played along with the speeding/dragging.

 

Sorry, just venting. How hard is it to practice your instrument once in a while?

 

This is a "just for fun band," so wtf, I guess. But still, it can get a little frustrating.

[ggm1960]

Playing to a click really is something you have to train yourself to do.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

drummers piss me off. I think there are 3 in the entire world who have a good sense of tempo. they always speed up!

[Walt Disney]

What is it with the whole guitarplayers vs drummers thing?

So you have a drummer with bad timing. Or a guitarplayer with bad timing.

What does every other drummer/guitarplayer have to do with it?

 

Tell your drummer he needs practice. If he can't keep time he's not worthy of calling himself a drummer. Practice and concentration are a must for any musician. And if he can't make the effort you have reason enough to dump him and find another drummer.

[Chunkytele]

Plug in a metronome. Even the best musician have timing issues. If you are playing by ear and not measure missed timing is a common mistake with changes in the song. Metronome is a good start. KEEP IT FUN MAN!!!

[Micahb]

 

Plug in a metronome. Even the best musician have timing issues. If you are playing by ear and not measure missed timing is a common mistake with changes in the song. Metronome is a good start. KEEP IT FUN MAN!!!

 

 

You know, I'm a guitarist of 19 years and I recently started on drums...{censored}s not as easy as it looks! That being said, I agree with Chunky, it's tough till you train yourself to do it but with a good additude and time, it can be done. Just remember, if it's for fun, no ones getting paid to deal with you if you get all pissy.

[Lurko]

You know, I'm a guitarist of 19 years and I recently started on drums...{censored}s not as easy as it looks! That being said, I agree with Chunky, it's tough till you train yourself to do it but with a good additude and time, it can be done. Just remember, if it's for fun, no ones getting paid to deal with you if you get all pissy.

 

And I'm not getting paid either. I'm just sayin'.

 

Still I didn't say anything to him. Just played along to get along....

[Raypd Ayp]

I had a drummer that we'd complain to on occasion if something was too fast or too slow (well, it was pretty often), and his usual reply was that it was us that was speeding up and slowing down, he was just following us....? I don't know, he must have been an amazing drummer to anticipate slight changes in a guitar rhythm speed and follow suit.

 

Another thing I've heard drummers say from time to time and ticks me off is "I might be too fast or too slow, but I'm always steady all the way through". How about playing the correct tempo steadily all the way through instead of making excuses and jokes after the fact?

[BATCAT]

 

I had a drummer that we'd complain to on occasion if something was too fast or too slow (well, it was pretty often), and his usual reply was that it was us that was speeding up and slowing down, he was just following us....? I don't know, he must have been an amazing drummer to anticipate slight changes in a guitar rhythm speed and follow suit.

 

 

Actually I think it's not that uncommon for a guitarist or bassist to be the cause of rushing or dragging. In general, a good drummer will be pretty sensitive to other's playing and will definitely react to push and pull from other instruments.

 

There have been times I've been playing drums (I play both drums and guitar) and somebody has complained about tempo issues with a given song. So, I'll pull out the drum machine and headphones, get the band to agree on a BPM, and play the song through with a click in my headphones.

 

Sometime they'll swear, for example, the chorus is dragging, even though I'm playing right to the click- because they're used to rushing. (I'll rush/drag sometimes too and won't realize it- we all do from time to time)

 

The bottom line is that the tempo/feel is most certainly the domain of everyone. People that expect the drummer to be the sole timekeeper are not doing their part, for sure.

[wades_keys]

Playing in a band is a dynamic thing - most musicians that sound good in a band context do so precisely because of their ability to accompany other musicians.

 

Like Squid said, its entirely possible other members of the band are pushing the tempo and the drummer is following suit.

 

That said, the drummer is the one who has the ability to rope in the tempo.

 

Instead of adapting to any speedups he should maintain his tempo (at rehearsal) and let the rest of the band fall out of sync. Then he will have gotten your attention and the real issue can be dealt with.

 

Perception of tempo is relative to your own adrenaline levels and heart rate - the click keeps you grounded and really kind of mandates a more economic technique while playing.

 

The less energy wasted on un-necessary motion the less your heart rate will increase - is he flailing away?

 

Maybe he needs to economize his technique a little more in addition to practicing with a click.

[wades_keys]

drummers piss me off. I think there are 3 in the entire world who have a good sense of tempo. they always speed up!

 

Happens a lot with younger, particularly unschooled players.

 

not just drummers either. Is your timing as good as you think it is?

 

Test yourself: play along with a song on your stereo. Have your friend turn the volume all the way down while you continue. When he turns it back up are you still on the beat? You should be. Increase the time all the way up to 30 seconds and see how you do. Not many do well at this...

 

My gtrist and I have done this a few times while hanging out and its fun and sometimes humbling too.

 

Then, try to hook up with a drummer that has had lessons, or played perc in marching band.

 

You'll get better results - or work with older more experienced players...

[phildogger]

 

Actually I think it's not that uncommon for a guitarist or bassist to be the cause of rushing or dragging. In general, a good drummer will be pretty sensitive to other's playing and will definitely react to push and pull from other instruments. There have been times I've been playing drums (I play both drums and guitar) and somebody has complained about tempo issues with a given song. So, I'll pull out the drum machine and headphones, get the band to agree on a BPM, and play the song through with a click in my headphones. Sometime they'll swear, for example, the chorus is dragging, even though I'm playing right to the click- because they're used to rushing. (I'll rush/drag sometimes too and won't realize it- we all do from time to time) The bottom line is that the tempo/feel is most certainly the domain of everyone. People that expect the drummer to be the sole timekeeper are not doing their part, for sure.

 

 

This is a crock of {censored}. A drummer is the timekeeper. If someone is playing offtime, don't match his speed, keep the correct time! as a bass player, {censored} like this drives me nuts.

 

It sounds like just another bad drummer excuse.

[BATCAT]

 

Instead of adapting to any speedups he should maintain his tempo (at rehearsal) and let the rest of the band fall out of sync.

 

 

At rehearsal yes, but "on the fly" a good drummer should adapt to the band, even if it means rushing or dragging.

 

Tempo fluctuations (more than minor ones) usually don't sound good, but a band that's not feeling the same groove sounds WAY worse.

[BATCAT]

This is a crock of {censored}. A drummer is the timekeeper. If someone is playing offtime, don't match his speed, keep the correct time! as a bass player, {censored} like this drives me nuts. It sounds like just another bad drummer excuse.

 

No, it's not a crock of {censored}.

 

A drummer is not the sole timekeeper. Everyone is "the timekeeper". The drums excercise somewhat more control over the tempo in many but not all musical situations.

 

I play drums, guitar, and bass (frequently to a click) in the studio and live. I'm not just flapping my trap. A bassist or guitarist with bad time isn't as disastrous as a drummer, but it's pretty bad.

 

You know what {censored} drives me nuts? It's people that make their band sound bad because they "lean on" the drums instead of looking at rhythmic role their instrument plays in the overall groove.

[wades_keys]

 

At rehearsal yes, but "on the fly" a good drummer should adapt to the band, even if it means rushing or dragging. Tempo fluctuations (more than minor ones) usually don't sound good, but a band that's not feeling the same groove sounds WAY worse.

 

 

+1,000,000.

[wades_keys]

 

This is a crock of {censored}. A drummer is the timekeeper. If someone is playing offtime, don't match his speed, keep the correct time! as a bass player, {censored} like this drives me nuts. It sounds like just another bad drummer excuse.

 

 

If you're not in sync with the drummer, there's nothing correct about the sonic result.

 

I was making the point of doing that in rehearsal so as to identify the cause of the problem.

 

Live this would be a disaster.

[HMKRich]

Actually I think it's not that uncommon for a guitarist or bassist to be the cause of rushing or dragging. In general, a good drummer will be pretty sensitive to other's playing and will definitely react to push and pull from other instruments. There have been times I've been playing drums (I play both drums and guitar) and somebody has complained about tempo issues with a given song. So, I'll pull out the drum machine and headphones, get the band to agree on a BPM, and play the song through with a click in my headphones. Sometime they'll swear, for example, the chorus is dragging, even though I'm playing right to the click- because they're used to rushing. (I'll rush/drag sometimes too and won't realize it- we all do from time to time) The bottom line is that the tempo/feel is most certainly the domain of everyone. People that expect the drummer to be the sole timekeeper are not doing their part, for sure.

I think that you're saying that the drummer is responsible for timing, but that if the timing goes bad, it isn't necessarily the drummer's fault. If so, I agree completely.

 

You know what drives me nuts? Mediocre drummers who can do incredible fills. You should'a been practicing with a metronome, lazy sucker.

[Maj. Lee FUBAR]

 

This is a crock of {censored}. A drummer is the timekeeper. If someone is playing offtime, don't match his speed, keep the correct time! as a bass player, {censored} like this drives me nuts. It sounds like just another bad drummer excuse.

 

 

I disagree. Your "solution" is just going make the song sound like {censored} and fall apart. It's called a rhythm section for a reason. Bass and drums have to be in sync for the rest of the band to sound good. IMHO, the bass is just as important a timekeeper as the drummer is. The melody instruments are freer to noodle around, but if the bass and drums are off, you are going to sound terrible. Just my 2 cents (about what it's worth).

 

MLF

[phildogger]

No, a drummer should keep on time. If another musician speeds up, and the drummer matches, the other player will continue to speed up, and pretty soon, it sounds like Slayer speed.

 

A Drummer IS the timekeeper. If you can't keep good time, play guitar!

[BATCAT]

A Drummer IS the timekeeper. If you can't keep good time, play guitar!

 

That's kinda messed up, honestly.

 

What if, (God forbid) you have a song where there are no drums in the verses? Or a song where there's a one measure pause at the end of every verse where the bass does a run? It's gonna sound really great when all those "I'm not a timekeeper" guys play without drums...

 

[Rockin_dude]

Actionsquid

sounds like you have been playing for a few years .. yes keeping time or learning to do so is a tool most players weather it be guitar ,drums ,the list can go on till they come into a studio or have lessons most don`t know how to count .i`m not picking on anyone just stating a fact sad but true .but most players when in a band as long as there all on the same page when playing the music sounds tight vocals blend well ,people come out to have a good time .. been doing this for just over thrity five years now .own a sound company and still go out and play .When i play i play to have fun when i`m on stage i have a good time but then i like to do guest spots ,I do a lot of Stevie Ray got to have a hot bass player to back me up Stevie rays music isn`t the easist to do .lot of player can`t pull it off .if you play him then do it right !

[Chicken Monkey]

Maybe it's just me, but it's a LOT harder to play drums to a click than to play guitar with a click. Working all four limbs in synch with an external metronome is far more difficult than wiggling your wrist in time.

[Lurko]

Playing to a click was not my idea. It was the drummer's. What is irksome is that when I play to the click, I am dead on (that's why I practice with a metronome, after all), and he's not, which screws the pooch, as they say.

 

My drummer is a bit of an egomanic about "professionalism" as well, which makes the whole thing all the more laughable. Yet, I still like him and the band, so you do what you have to do. Whatever, this ain't rocket science and nobody dies if the tempo is slightly off. I was simply venting, no more, no less.

[BATCAT]

 

Yet, I still like him and the band, so you do what you have to do. Whatever, this ain't rocket science and nobody dies if the tempo is slightly off.

 

 

I hear that.

 

I play with a drummer who isn't really comfortable with a click. He's fairly young (21) and just hasn't done it a lot. He can if he has to, but he finds it really awkward.

 

When we recorded recently I had wanted to use a click, but it ended up being a pain in the ass, so we ditched it. The end result was we have some songs where there some audible speed-ups, but I've decided I actually kinda like it. It's refeshing to hear a little tempo fluctuation in this era of click tracks, pro tools, and so on.

[Lee Flier]

When we recorded recently I had wanted to use a click, but it ended up being a pain in the ass, so we ditched it. The end result was we have some songs where there some audible speed-ups, but I've decided I actually kinda like it. It's refeshing to hear a little tempo fluctuation in this era of click tracks, pro tools, and so on.

 

+ a billion. A little tempo fluctuation can be fine or even cool if the band is all grooving together and not TRYING to play in perfect time. Until not very long ago, tempo was considered another tool of expression and it was expected that songs would vary in tempo. Now it seems to be everyone's goal (at least in rock, pop etc.) to be perfect metronomes, and I don't really like that goal. There are a ton of classic records that groove like crazy and have audible speed ups/slowdowns, as well as those that aren't so audible. Try putting a James Brown record up on a grid sometime - you'll be very surprised, and nobody would accuse those guys of not grooving or being tight!

 

Sure this could be seen as just an excuse for having bad time, and sometimes it is. But it isn't necessarily, and I agree with you Squid that the drummer isn't the only timekeeper in a band. It's how everyone grooves together that really gets across to the audience.