Lead singer can't sing harmony!

[New Trail]

Explain why a guy who is a great lead singer can't hear and sing harmony parts. If he tries to sing on a song one of the other guys sings lead on, he ALWAYS sings the lead line. We tried working on some harmony the other night and he just can't do it! Maybe he just doesn't want to. I don't understand it!

[alcohol]

Just one night's attempt isn't going to fix the problem. The guy can sing harmony, he just needs to work at it. Isolate his harmony line on guitar or keys and have him practice it. At home if he needs to.

[RupertB]

Just one night's attempt isn't going to fix the problem. The guy can sing harmony, he just needs to work at it. Isolate his harmony line on guitar or keys and have him practice it. At home if he needs to.

 

Agreed. For most people singing harmony is a skill that requires a certain amount of training. I've encountered a few singers who could belt it out on their own but who were completely thrown off if you tried to sing a harmony with them.

 

Your singer just needs to admit that he doesn't do something well, get back into "student mode", and work hard at...

 

 

nevermind, you're screwed.

 

[Howie22]

I understand, as I have the same problem. Sometimes I can find the harmony part, sometimes I can't.

 

I don't think it's a singing problem, it's an ear problem for me. Even though I sing fairly well and generally don't have a problem figuring out songs by ear, I can't hear the relative pitches of harmony. I've just never been trained to do it. Sometimes I can even hear the parts when listening to the original song on the radio, but can't reproduce them when singing live.

 

However, like with anything else, the more I practice, the better I do! I recently bought an ear training book as well, which will hopefully help.

[rhat]

yup ,, thats where i am at .... What i have been dong it useing my digital recorder. Lay down a song ... then play it back and just work in singing harmony to it. Its been a big help . You can hear the results when you play it back. The more i do this the better at it i get. I am still fishing for the secret to consistancy on it though.... practice practice practice. rat

[Dave Martin]

I know a number of singers - singers with record deals - who cannot sing harmony. Some folks hear 'em, some folks don't.

[rhat]

 

I know a number of singers - singers with record deals - who cannot sing harmony. Some folks hear 'em, some folks don't.

 

 

 

I assume you know how to do it. whats the mindset. do you hear the main part and then learn to sing the split off the main part? I had one guy tell me that he totally ignores the main vocal part ,,, but somehow that just didnt seem right to me. He was in HS choir....when he was young. I dont know how good he actually was. It sounded to me like he was more just following the people in his section rather than actually a guy who knew how to sing harmony. When i was young i was in a band with three chamber choir quality singers. they ate harmony up and we covered all kinds of stuff from cyrin shames to association ,, to grass roots , to sam and dave. These guys were really good. I was just a keyboard player ,, and part of the rhythm section and didnt sing .... but i find it hard to believe that these great singers were all on their own planets totally ignoreing what the other guys parts..... i mean to get that tight blend of voices there had to be some connetion to make it work. rat

[crossways]

Well first of all:

 

1) Is he supposed to be creating the harmonies or singing harmonies that are already established i.e. that can be played for him to learn.

 

2) how LOUD is the room? Is there more noise than musical tone, to be able to harmonize with?

 

3) what is the range of the music? Range has so much to do with singing in tune and being able to sing parts well, and even hearing parts in your head and recreating them.

 

Is it worth the effort and trouble for your "lead" singer to learn the back-up vocals??? If the other guys can do it, and your lead singer is a good singer then why not just let him sing lead and the others back him up on harmonies?

[bassred]

You shouldn't ignore the lead vocals, but you should certainly know where your harmony falls against the chord structure of the song. When I sing harmonies, I sing them to my bass parts or the guitar parts, I'm not ignoring the lead, just using my refernce and intervals for MY part and not focusing on the lead. When figuring out harmonies it is very important to listen to the lead, you have to see where he's going, then figure out where you are going to go. some harmonies change intervals from the lead part, to create a different version of the chord/voicing, just like the keys or guitar would change from g to g7.... just for example........ once you get the feel for harmonies, they become pretty easy for you.. it's just a matter of paying close attention , using your ears and your brain at the same time....

[rhat]

 

You shouldn't ignore the lead vocals, but you should certainly know where your harmony falls against the chord structure of the song. When I sing harmonies, I sing them to my bass parts or the guitar parts, I'm not ignoring the lead, just using my refernce and intervals for MY part and not focusing on the lead. When figuring out harmonies it is very important to listen to the lead, you have to see where he's going, then figure out where you are going to go. some harmonies change intervals from the lead part, to create a different version of the chord/voicing, just like the keys or guitar would change from g to g7.... just for example........ once you get the feel for harmonies, they become pretty easy for you.. it's just a matter of paying close attention , using your ears and your brain at the same time....

 

 

 

OK ... thats kinda the way I thought it worked.....so bascially you are just singing the split....by pumping the harmony part to make the chord voicing of the harmony?

 

 

The totally ingoring the lead melody just didnt seem musically right to me. Of course this guy could tell me my harmony was not right ,, but couldnt do it himself so i pretty well chalked him up as a BSer. The whole deal seemed a little wierd to me .. If he sings harmony and pays zero attention to the other part,, how could he even tell it was wrong? i guess you meet all kinds..... I passed on this guy lol. rat

[RobRoy]

 

I know a number of singers - singers with record deals - who cannot sing harmony. Some folks hear 'em, some folks don't.

 

I have a natural ear for harmonies and I think there is a reason for it: I played trombone for 40 years. That instrument is all about harmonies, canons, etc.

 

I am able to throw a good harmony at a song I

[Dave Martin]

I assume you know how to do it. whats the mindset.

 

Me? No, I suck at singing backgrounds. When I sing harmony, I'm pretty much just blocking out the chords - that almost works when there's only one other vocalist, but in a group, I need to have someone tell me what notes to sing. On the other hand, when I'm producing background vocals on a project, I know what I want to hear even when I can't sing it myself. (In fact, a couple of my regular singers have asked me to TELL them what I want, not sing it... ).

[rhat]

Me? No, I suck at singing backgrounds. When I sing harmony, I'm pretty much just blocking out the chords - that almost works when there's only one other vocalist, but in a group, I need to have someone tell me what notes to sing. On the other hand, when I'm producing background vocals on a project, I know what I want to hear even when I can't sing it myself. (In fact, a couple of my regular singers have asked me to TELL them what I want, not sing it... ).

 

 

Ok ... so i guess we are both work in progress lol. rat

[ToneGrail]

Singing harmony requires a level of brain power that is on a different level than singing lead. Singing lead is just memorization. Singing harmony is being able to analyze the lead and sing the appropriate interval relative to the lead. Some people just don't have that ability. It's like describing blue to a color blind person.

[rhat]

 

Singing harmony requires a level of brain power that is on a different level than singing lead. Singing lead is just memorization. Singing harmony is being able to analyze the lead and sing the appropriate interval relative to the lead. Some people just don't have that ability. It's like describing blue to a color blind person.

 

 

 

so you dont think its a skill that a person can learn? I just look at it as a different skill that singing lead. I would guess it comes easier to some than others ,, just like singing lead does .... I mean if you cant sing on key with lead ,, harmony would be pretty tough ,, but if you can nail the pitch on lead ,, it would seem to be just another vocal skill. rat

[Lee Flier]

I am kinda the opposite of a lot of people in that I have a natural ear for harmony, but I CAN NOT ignore the lead vocal. I can harmonize with a lead vocal and/or other harmony vocals all day long but if you asked me to sing my part by itself I wouldn't have a clue what it was - I couldn't sing my harmony line as a melody line to save my life. Even though if someone says "sing a 5th or a 7th above me" I can totally do it. I guess what this says is that having an ear for harmony goes hand in hand with having an ear for chords... I seem to hear whole chords in my head rather than individual parts, and I can sing my part of the chord relative to someone else pretty easily.

 

If you don't have an ear for chords, which actually many dedicated lead singers don't, then usually you have to learn to sing the harmony line independently as a melody line, which most people seem to be able to do if someone can isolate the line for them and sing it or play it on a keyboard or whatever. Otherwise, developing an ear just takes a lot of practice singing along with records, which is how I learned harmony. I imagine lead singers spend most of their time singing along with the melody line, whereas even as a kid I'd usually try to pick out a harmony against the lead singer even if there wasn't one on the record. I'm sure most people who can sing at all could learn harmony by doing this, just have to do it a lot, like anything else.

[RobRoy]

When I sing a harmony part solo, I can "hear" the lead part at the same time. Sometimes I can even "hear" the third part, but it takes really knowing the song.

[rhat]

I am kinda the opposite of a lot of people in that I have a natural ear for harmony, but I CAN NOT ignore the lead vocal. I can harmonize with a lead vocal and/or other harmony vocals all day long but if you asked me to sing my part by itself I wouldn't have a clue what it was - I couldn't sing my harmony line as a melody line to save my life. Even though if someone says "sing a 5th or a 7th above me" I can totally do it. I guess what this says is that having an ear for harmony goes hand in hand with having an ear for chords... I seem to hear whole chords in my head rather than individual parts, and I can sing my part of the chord relative to someone else pretty easily. If you don't have an ear for chords, which actually many dedicated lead singers don't, then usually you have to learn to sing the harmony line independently as a melody line, which most people seem to be able to do if someone can isolate the line for them and sing it or play it on a keyboard or whatever. Otherwise, developing an ear just takes a lot of practice singing along with records, which is how I learned harmony. I imagine lead singers spend most of their time singing along with the melody line, whereas even as a kid I'd usually try to pick out a harmony against the lead singer even if there wasn't one on the record. I'm sure most people who can sing at all could learn harmony by doing this, just have to do it a lot, like anything else.

 

 

I can see where you are comming from..... i play keys so i am used to thinking in terms of chord voicings...... I practice by building up my own tracks with overdubs. The more i do it the better i get at it ,, but I still havent got it down pat yet. I am getting a ton better at it. I would love to hook up with someone good enough to really isolate the different parts on their own. I think that would be a great learning experience .. far better than people who just sing the harmony part but cant isolate it.

 

I have heard that listening to keroke tracks that have the harmony parts in them can be good ,,,, I might give that a whirl. i am going down for hand surgery in late nov ,, so i may pick up a kereoke machine and play around with that on the down time..... It might be fun to have one just for practice. I would guess the way to go would be to buy out some guy that has a rig and alot of tracks..... who knows ya may pick up a PA cheap that way too,,, i am in the market for one of those... too . rat

[cephus]

Playing in an orchesta might have something to do with it, but given the opportunity, I do hear and sing the harmonies pretty easily. Although, I seem to imprint on the recorded version. When someone changes the key, I might end up totally/tonally lost.

 

For me, the harmony is almost like the overtone series in brass (or whatever). My voice just finds the next higher notch above the lead. With a little work, I learned to find the notch lower and 2 or 3 notches higher. Luckily I don't have to naturally plot out and calculate the harmony part. It just is "lipping up" the lead vocal.

[Lee Flier]

 

I have heard that listening to keroke tracks that have the harmony parts in them can be good ,,,,

 

 

Maybe. The trouble is that singing along with existing harmony tracks can fool you into thinking you're doing the right part when you aren't. That was my experience anyway. I found it more helpful to sing along with only a lead vocal, and usually blocked one ear so I could really hear myself. But with no other vocals there it's really obvious if you're singing the wrong note. I remember that as a kid I struggled with it for quite awhile and then one day something just clicked in and I could do it on anything.

[rhat]

 

Maybe. The trouble is that singing along with existing harmony tracks can fool you into thinking you're doing the right part when you aren't. That was my experience anyway. I found it more helpful to sing along with only a lead vocal, and usually blocked one ear so I could really hear myself. But with no other vocals there it's really obvious if you're singing the wrong note. I remember that as a kid I struggled with it for quite awhile and then one day something just clicked in and I could do it on anything.

 

 

 

Yea i guess i was looking at the kereoke thing as a easy way to just get a listen to the part isolated .... from more ov a observation thing. As for the clicking ,,, yea i think that is the key to it .. thats why i keep gunning the over dub deal ..... I can take a song ,, record it... then overdub the harmony part and play it back and listen to how it sounded. That is how I really learned to sing lead. i was never a singer in any of my old bands.... Hell i worked with guys that were totally awsome at vocals ,,they could nail cyrin shames and association and grass roots all day long. When i got the digital recorder i started working on vocals... and one day .. poof ,, I stumbled on to bringing my voice up from the gut and was amazed that there was this voice there that i never knew i had. I hope to get the same kind of break through with harmony . I am getting close. I can do it and have it sound great ,,but still may drift off the split a little here and there. I have the basic skill but havent learned to really control it completely ... Its getting easier .... but still not where i want it. I wanna get really good at it. Face it ,, if you can sing good harmony and are a good rhythm player ... you can write your ticket in most rock bands. Mulitple part vocals are what really makes a band. I played in one that had em ,, and it was the thing that made us a top area band. No one in town could touch our vocals.... or our rhythm section for that matter ,, pretty well every one had a better lead player than we did... but they made a third of the money we did..... the stuff we did lead guitar just wasnt the big deal on... it was horns vocals and rhythm. rat

[bassred]

I think it can be learned, just like chords are learned, you soon find out that when a guitar player plays a minor on your major it is not right, you hear it, and you learn why it is not right. you can develope those skills for singing backups as well.

[RobRoy]

 

I think it can be learned, just like chords are learned, you soon find out that when a guitar player plays a minor on your major it is not right, you hear it, and you learn why it is not right. you can develope those skills for singing backups as well.

 

 

I tend to agree, but I do believe in the concepts of aptitude and talent. That is, people have more of an aptitude in various areas than other people. For example, you could teach a kid how to pitch a baseball, even though he is a total "Poindexter" and can't hardly walk up a stairs without tripping. No amount of practice will get him to throw a ball at 98 mph. The "talent" just aint there.

 

The same is true of music. I think that is why people like Barbra Streisand are so rare (say what you will about her politics). And there is everything in between.

 

For many people, getting good at a thing, like singing harmonies, just will never fully reward the amount of effort it takes. Sometimes you just need to focus on what you "naturally" do well, especially with hobbies.

[bassred]

right, but we're talking about musicians here, they work with these same principles every day, now they just need to get it to transfer to singing instead of their instrument.

[RobRoy]

 

right, but we're talking about musicians here, they work with these same principles every day, now they just need to get it to transfer to singing instead of their instrument.

 

 

My drummer could not count. He could not do beginnings of songs that required him to count. He has been playing for almost 40 years and has a VERY expensive custom drum kit.

 

He is not a drummer and has NO sense of time.

 

He needs to find another hobby.

 

I suspect there are singers like that too. I learned the hard way that when I come across a "musician" that has a lot of years under their belt but cannot do some pretty basic things, maybe - just maybe - they aren't really musicians.