Members untitledblinkfa Posted November 2, 2007 Members Share Posted November 2, 2007 Hey all, The other day the band I'm in had a pretty large blowout I would say. In summary, the drummer, bassist, and other guitarist all came down pretty hard on the lead singers' singing ability, or lack there of. Pretty much told him he stunk, and needed to put more effort into getting better as a singer. Now the band is far from perfect, with struggles in pretty much every area, and everyone has there own little problem areas. The singer pretty much took the criticism of his singing as a personal attack and it now close to quitting the band. I guess I don't know what direction to go myself, because while he definately has limitiations as a singer, the drummer can't keep a consistant beat, the bassist has zero stage presence, and the other guitarist is still learning the instrument. Not to say I'm perfect as the lead guitarist, but I've heard from various impartial people that I am the talent of the band. The lead singer is a good friend of mine, whereas the other three people are just kinda loose buddies, so I have an bit of an allegiance to him. The singer also pretty much brings 95% of the people to the shows, which I don't think the other people have considered. This has gotten pretty long so I'll stop there for now, and just summarize by saying what would some of you more experienced band peeps do in a similar situation. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scafeets Posted November 2, 2007 Members Share Posted November 2, 2007 I'm going to assume you're all pretty young and don't have much experience at this stuff. From the description of your band mates' talent (or lack thereof) I would say run - don't walk - away form the whole thing. It's far better to be the weak link in a good band than the only competent player in a bad one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Inazone Posted November 2, 2007 Members Share Posted November 2, 2007 First of all, you have to separate friendship from band decision-making so that you can treat everyone equally. I know that in my own band, decisions would be easier to make - TOO easy to make and probably not for the best - if I sided with the bandmates who I get along better with. That being said, it wouldn't be "playing favorites" to point out what your singer brings to the table. It wouldn't be the right time to point out the other guys' flaws, but rather to stress the singer's strengths . . . if you want to keep him on. In my opinion, a vocalist's role is often the most difficult, because unlike other instruments, there is more to it than just playing a part *technically* correct. The human voice can be an unpredictable thing, and a vocalist needs to have confidence regardless of a sore throat or jumbled lyrics. I'm a lead guitarist myself, and have only contributed a few backing vocals, but I think that guitarists (and bassists) have it easier than drummers and singers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted November 2, 2007 Members Share Posted November 2, 2007 Hey all,The other day the band I'm in had a pretty large blowout I would say. In summary, the drummer, bassist, and other guitarist all came down pretty hard on the lead singers' singing ability, or lack there of. Pretty much told him he stunk, and needed to put more effort into getting better as a singer. Now the band is far from perfect, with struggles in pretty much every area, and everyone has there own little problem areas. The singer pretty much took the criticism of his singing as a personal attack and it now close to quitting the band. I guess I don't know what direction to go myself, because while he definately has limitiations as a singer, the drummer can't keep a consistant beat, the bassist has zero stage presence, and the other guitarist is still learning the instrument. Not to say I'm perfect as the lead guitarist, but I've heard from various impartial people that I am the talent of the band. The lead singer is a good friend of mine, whereas the other three people are just kinda loose buddies, so I have an bit of an allegiance to him. The singer also pretty much brings 95% of the people to the shows, which I don't think the other people have considered. This has gotten pretty long so I'll stop there for now, and just summarize by saying what would some of you more experienced band peeps do in a similar situation. Thanks Talk to the singer about starting a new band with different folks, if you think he can eventually become good enough to front a good band. In your new band, make sure there are ground rules that are talked about openly: basically that "ganging up" type of clickish behavior can't be tolerated - especially when the ones doing the ganging are not competent themselves. Bottom line is you should have shut that situation down by saying something like "guys, you don't have room to talk: you have no stage presence and you are still learning to play your guitar. So don't worry about someone else's mistakes and concentrate on your own playing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members deepblue Posted November 2, 2007 Members Share Posted November 2, 2007 Record some rehearsals and or gigs. That usually is enough to put people's opinions in the proper perspective. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members THBv2.0 Posted November 3, 2007 Members Share Posted November 3, 2007 Sounds to me like you guys ought to leave egos aside and help each other out. Work with the singer on hitting his notes, get the drummer a metronome and teach the bassman to nod his head when he plays. It doesn't sound like you're getting rich any time soon, so why not help each other out and be better friends along the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 3, 2007 Members Share Posted November 3, 2007 Sounds to me like you guys ought to leave egos aside and help each other out. Work with the singer on hitting his notes, get the drummer a metronome and teach the bassman to nod his head when he plays. It doesn't sound like you're getting rich any time soon, so why not help each other out and be better friends along the way? +1000 Look at it as a chance to learn and grow together. I've heard lots of stories of bands who got together as kids who didn't know much and became top-tier bands. One of them was the Beach Boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted November 3, 2007 Members Share Posted November 3, 2007 Sounds to me like you guys ought to leave egos aside and help each other out. Work with the singer on hitting his notes, get the drummer a metronome and teach the bassman to nod his head when he plays. It doesn't sound like you're getting rich any time soon, so why not help each other out and be better friends along the way? That's the ideal situation - which requires maturity and also several understandings. One of these understandings IMO is to avoid "taking sides" or creating drama by having several people gang up on another band member at once. You've got to see the band as a unit, and not just a platform to showcase your own talents. THe band should be greater than the sum of its parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted November 3, 2007 Members Share Posted November 3, 2007 I'm going to assume you're all pretty young and don't have much experience at this stuff. From the description of your band mates' talent (or lack thereof) I would say run - don't walk - away form the whole thing. It's far better to be the weak link in a good band than the only competent player in a bad one. That's good advice I think for people with more experience - if you're young and happen to be more technically advanced than others of your age, then you will basically always be in that situation. It's better I think to help the band get better as a whole, by taping rehearsals and having the whole band sit around listening to the playback. Set a rule (by example or just come right out and sell that) that no one is to listen to anyone else's playing but their own, and criticize only their own efforts. If everyone does that enough times, you will draw their attention away from the other guys faults and have them focusing on improving their own performance. I can tell you what's worked for bands I've been in: while listening to the playback, break the silence as soon as you hear something in your own playing that you don't like (o man, I should have hit an E there but hit an F# instead). This will let the other guys know that you are aware of your own mistakes, and will prompt them to point out their flaws too. Try it. Bottom line: you can't control what the other guys do or don't do, but you can create an atmosphere where the band is sincerely trying to improve as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted November 3, 2007 Members Share Posted November 3, 2007 Since your the main talent get the {censored} out and find guys in your league of talent, nothing worse then waiting on other guys to come around to your level of playing that could take another year or 2 unless you don't mine waiting. I remember when I audition guitar players i would cut heads with the best of them they didn't know I was a bassist most of them couldn't outplay my ass but then again I can play a pretty mean guitar my self and even better on bass. I wanna be in a band with folks with the same level of talent not {censored}ing teach folks how to play their instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted November 3, 2007 Members Share Posted November 3, 2007 Since your the main talent get the {censored} out and find guys in your league of talent, nothing worse then waiting on other guys to come around to your level of playing that could take another year or 2 unless you don't mine waiting. I remember when I audition guitar players i would cut heads with the best of them they didn't know I was a bassist most of them couldn't outplay my ass but then again I can play a pretty mean guitar my self and even better on bass. I wanna be in a band with folks with the same level of talent not {censored}ing teach folks how to play their instrument. Hey bro, I feel the same way. But I'm 39 years old and have been playing (guitars) since I was 12 (keys since age 6). But when I was 15 or so, there weren't that many all around good players in that age group, so you kind of had to make do. Hell, I wasn't that good at age 15 in a shred your face off sense; in fact it was then that I knew that I really was more into rhythm than lead. IMO, rhythmic skills take time to develop - but yeah, the disparity in talent can't be too great or it's just dumb {censored}. Only the OP knows the true extent - maybe - consider that younger players that obtain a good technical proficiency may still have a ways to go in other areas, such as dynamics, tone, and rhythm. It's real "easy" in a sense to rip some cool leads and immediately place yourself above the support members in talent - most times that perception as a youngster is off the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted November 3, 2007 Members Share Posted November 3, 2007 I remember in the 80's it was tough for a rhythm guitarist to get any recognition, regardless of how tight you were - everyone was dazzled by the legato leads. SO there's more to musical talent, IMO, then being able to flap your fingers around a fretboard. I'm just saying - i see this a lot with lead guitarists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted November 3, 2007 Members Share Posted November 3, 2007 bottom line: A good musician must have a strong foundation to build on. A solid foundation in rhythm, and a good grasp of scales and basic theory are more desirable than a tab monkey who can put his fingers on the dots.... The smoothness, tone, phrasing and confidence will come with practice and repetition, if you have those things.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted November 3, 2007 Members Share Posted November 3, 2007 bottom line: A good musician must have a strong foundation to build on. A solid foundation in rhythm, and a good grasp of scales and basic theory are more desirable than a tab monkey who can put his fingers on the dots.... The smoothness, tone, phrasing and confidence will come with practice and repetition, if you have those things.... A tab monkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted November 3, 2007 Members Share Posted November 3, 2007 It's better I think to help the band get better as a whole, by taping rehearsals and having the whole band sit around listening to the playback. +1000 again.... This is the best thing to do at this point if I was in untitledblinkfa's shoes...This is the best next step to take from the status of the original post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted November 3, 2007 Members Share Posted November 3, 2007 Record some rehearsals and or gigs. That usually is enough to put people's opinions in the proper perspective. Good luck! That should be a law:idea: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chunkytele Posted November 4, 2007 Members Share Posted November 4, 2007 wade keys - offered some solid insight- This will let the other guys know that you are aware of your own mistakes, and will prompt them to point out their flaws too.Try it. early in my experience in playing with a band I was the weak link. I was fortunate to play with guys that waited for me to develop. Commitment and dedication to learn allowed me the opportunity to get up to speed in less than a year. While I sucked a guitar for awhile , I also worked on contributing as a vocalist and a percussionist. I also worked a bank on original songs. All I am saying sometimes in the midst ...there may be a diamond in the rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members F.D. Neighbors Posted November 4, 2007 Members Share Posted November 4, 2007 As said b4, Record some shows/practices. Would transposing the keys up or down make him sound better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gibson9778 Posted November 4, 2007 Members Share Posted November 4, 2007 It's better I think to help the band get better as a whole, by taping rehearsals and having the whole band sit around listening to the playback. Set a rule (by example or just come right out and sell that) that no one is to listen to anyone else's playing but their own, and criticize only their own efforts. i see what youre saying, but i sort of disagree with this. sometimes it is another persons flub that makes it sound like you yourself screwed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wagdog Posted November 4, 2007 Members Share Posted November 4, 2007 You've got to see the band as a unit, and not just a platform to showcase your own talents. THe band should be greater than the sum of its parts. That is without a doubt, the best I've ever seen the definition of a healthy band relationship summed up. If those of us experiencing "group dynamics" would approach our various groups with that statement and that statement alone, most, if not all of the drama would go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cherri Posted November 4, 2007 Members Share Posted November 4, 2007 You've got to see the band as a unit, and not just a platform to showcase your own talents. THe band should be greater than the sum of its parts. Agreed! Strong flexible leadership is also important. Drama unfolds when leadership is either lacking, is inconsistent, or totalitarian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted November 5, 2007 Members Share Posted November 5, 2007 i see what youre saying, but i sort of disagree with this. sometimes it is another persons flub that makes it sound like you yourself screwed up. Yeah, I know. The important thing is to break the habit of finger pointing and avoid forming clicks. It's a bad band dynamic IMO when you have multiple people pointing out flaws with one other band member. Usually it winds up being more of a social dysfunction - check the O.P's description where he states that the critics have their own weaknesses too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Burgess Posted November 5, 2007 Members Share Posted November 5, 2007 Singer brings in 95% of the audience? This is a no brainer... Have a talk with the singer, tell him F' those guys and start looking for a new rhythm section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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