Starting a band........a primer

[axepilot]

A little background on this thread before I start:

 

I've been in and out of bands for the past 25 years, and my latest project is playing it's debut gig December 15th. It got me thinking..................

 

This is the first band that I've been the Chief Cat Herder - I call the shots, schedule practices, set the practice agenda, etc. I'm about to set this project loose and just wanted to share a few thoughts - aimed more at the young guns here looking to get serious than the road weary............................

 

-Appoint a leader. Democracies are fine, but not in a band situation. A good leader will consider everyone's opinion, but his word should be law. Way too many bands dissolve due to internal bickering.

 

-Be a "pro". You might just be a weekend warrior, but approach the band with a professional outlook. Be on time for practices, and be prepared. Take it seriously. Being prepared doesn't take a huge chunk of your time, and you'll be the better for it.

 

-Hire look minded talent. Don't just consider someone's chops when you audition them. Get inside their head to see where they're coming from and where they want to be. If their vision doesn't gel with yours, it will eventually fall apart and cause problems.

 

-Have a good practice space

 

-Keep practices closed. Don't invite your posse to the practice. Practices are free time for the band to make mistakes without retribution. A small crowd turns it into a "show" and destroys the learning.

 

-Be prepared for a ton of legwork. Besides just being good, you need the sundries like a demo, a logo, a website, a promo package, booking gigs, etc. It's a business

 

-Delegate the legwork

 

Enough on my take. Let's hear it from the rest of you raod warriors.........

[JBJ]

lot's of great points.

 

we have a pseudo dictatorship in that my brother actively chases all the bookings (though any of us are able to do it ourselves or take on homers if we're ok with it)

 

practices have never been attended by anyone but band members. i dunno why anyone would even want an SO or friend to turn up i mean they get to sit around for a bunch of hours watching you guys go: k let's try and tightedn that solo up, let's run psycho killer again cos i flubbed the lyrics etc...

 

other people just cause tension outwith the band. after our gig on friday night our bass players girlfriend hung around right at the stage making it pretty obvious she wanted to get out of there 10 minutes ago.

 

our bass player had the decency to stay and help tear down. i dunno if he said anything to her but i'll be {censored}ed if we're setting the gear up because we take it over, do the gig and then tear it down whilst he pisses off home just because his girlfriend doesn't like the "non dating a rockstar" part of the game.

 

professionalism is a must too. we all like a drink, in fact we LOVE drinking. but a gig is a job and stanking a case of beer between the 3 of us before we go onstage is a thing of the past. having a nice buzz is cool. being so drunk it affects your performance is out of line.

 

another thing i'll add is play to your strengths and do not attempt anything you can't do justice.

 

if it's originals don't try solo's way out of your ability or vocals outside of your range.

 

covers is exactly the same.

 

my brother wants us to try old time rock and roll. i've told him i'm not even wasting my time because the vocals are too high. i'd love to play it. i'd also love to play some journey or shook me all night long, sweet child etc... but there's no way my voice would handle them so they're not done.

[cooterbrown]

Appoint a leader. Democracies are fine, but not in a band situation.

 

WTF?!?!?!

 

I guess you wouldn't want to be in my band, then, where everybody is an equal.

 

We all book jobs, suggest songs, decide when to learn new songs, suggest new songs, suggest future band direction, and have our own personal jurisdictions of responsibility.

 

This band has been together for twenty-five years, and has only seen one member change (me taking the original keyboard player's place) since 1989.

 

If somebody in our band, all of a sudden, attempted to start dictating policy, they would be out of a job before quick could get ready.

[Nobody Told Me]

 

professionalism is a must too. we all like a drink, in fact we LOVE drinking. but a gig is a job and stanking a case of beer between the 3 of us before we go onstage is a thing of the past. having a nice buzz is cool. being so drunk it affects your performance is out of line.

 

 

That sure bears repeating. I've been in bands where the music was secondary to the party. I love to drink, and I used to love to smoke, but a joint and a bottle of Jack don't make you a rockstar. Well, not very many of us anyway.

[WynnD]

Leaders can be OK. Actually, I like a lead vocalist who takes charge onstage. I think it looks good to the audience. On the other hand, some of the better bands that I've worked with in the past were solidly no leader. They always had a wide variety of material. It's fun being a country band one night, a rock band the next night and jazz band on the weekend. Hard to do without at least 120 songs down solid.

[axeman25]

I think theres a differance between a leader onstage and a "band" leader. I defected from a dictator in a band a year ago. I hated being TOLD when we practice what we play and that we'll only do these bars. Not only that, there was a dress code. Jeans and a black tee. Stupid.

 

There are four of us in my new band. We send out emails to see when people can practice. We all show up on time ready and prepared for practice. We collectivly agree on songs to do. I love the way this band works.

 

I agree with the drinking part too. Everyone is there to have fun. I had a drummer once pass out 4 songs into our 4 SET night..............Is there a drummer in the house.

 

I would also add to pick your battles. If your a cover band, there is a 0 chance that every one of your sixty song you will like. It's give and take. I don't care for about 40 percent of the songs we play. But I still enjoy playing them with my friends onstage and the crowd loves them.

 

One more that I found usefull. In my experience, it is better to own a part of the pa then to go "in" on a pa. That way when you decide to leave, you take your speakers, mics, ect. Trying to get money out of musicians for the gear is not fun.

 

-Kevin

[elbow]

 

............. One more that I found usefull. In my experience, it is better to own a part of the pa then to go "in" on a pa. That way when you decide to leave, you take your speakers, mics, ect. Trying to get money out of musicians for the gear is not fun. -Kevin

 

 

 

+1

 

Community property can get messy. I would rather have one person own and maintain the PA, even take a bigger cut, than to have it "owned" by the band.

[Gorgon90]

 

One more that I found usefull. In my experience, it is better to own a part of the pa then to go "in" on a pa. That way when you decide to leave, you take your speakers, mics, ect. Trying to get money out of musicians for the gear is not fun. -Kevin

 

 

I can see both sides of that. It does make things simpler in terms of ownership but it also makes for inequality in terms of who had to shell out more money for their part. Does the guy who paid

[mstreck]

-Appoint a leader. Democracies are fine, but not in a band situation. A good leader will consider everyone's opinion, but his word should be law. Way too many bands dissolve due to internal bickering.

 

This solves a lot of problems. The whole "too many cooks" thing. But everyone has to be willing to accept that someone actually is the "leader".

 

-Be a "pro". You might just be a weekend warrior, but approach the band with a professional outlook. Be on time for practices, and be prepared. Take it seriously. Being prepared doesn't take a huge chunk of your time, and you'll be the better for it.

 

At the end of every rehearsal, we give everyone a cd with our "homework" - taken from our master song list. No one has an excuse to not know the songs when they show up - although it happens.

 

-Hire look minded talent. Don't just consider someone's chops when you audition them. Get inside their head to see where they're coming from and where they want to be. If their vision doesn't gel with yours, it will eventually fall apart and cause problems.

 

This is probably the most difficult thing to do. I definitely share the same "vision" as the two other people that have been around the longest - target audience, types of venues, song genres, etc. Unfortunately, what I have found is that many people will say they share your vision just to get into the band, but then it come out that they really want to play the music that they like.

 

-Keep practices closed. Don't invite your posse to the practice. Practices are free time for the band to make mistakes without retribution. A small crowd turns it into a "show" and destroys the learning.

 

AMEN!!!! And if other "musicians" show up, practice is a total waste... ugh!

[corbind]

Good debate on dictator or democrat bands. Never been in anything but a democratic band.

[elbow]

 

Good debate on dictator or democrat bands. Never been in anything but a democratic band.

 

 

Me either. In the bands I've been in, everyone had equal voices in working through things... set list, gigs, rules, money distribution, etc... Although I will say that even in a democratic band, someone is usually a defacto leader and sort of takes on a lot of heavy lifting.

 

I could live in a band with a "real" and clear leader.... as long as they really were a leader and understood what it takes to lead. I wouldn't have the stomach to follow just any douche-bag that owns a PA or something.

[squealie]

A band leader, certainly doesn't make a 'dictator'

[rockerdiva]

I'm the leader in my band, simply because I had a nearly twenty year career as a soloist in the area, wanted to do the band thing, found the players, told them what I was interested in playing. Luckily, I found three guys who are excited about the direction I have chosen, pumped up to play together and with me, and behind every tune I have suggested. But it still seems like a cooperative and whenever they throw out ideas, I like those tunes, too! It rocks. I actually can't believe how well we all get along. It's a good experience so far (we have only done 3 shows and have a mere 5 more booked ...so far

[axeman25]

I can see both sides of that. It does make things simpler in terms of ownership but it also makes for inequality in terms of who had to shell out more money for their part. Does the guy who paid

[mstreck]

 

Good debate on dictator or democrat bands. Never been in anything but a democratic band.

 

 

I think it depnds on your goals.

 

If you just want to hang out, play a few favorite local clubs, and have fun in a relaxed atmosphere, sure... why not have a pure democracy? You can play stuff that everyone in the band likes and have a good time playing for your hometown crowd.

 

But if you have a specific purpose in mind, and I don't care what genre of band you are, it may help to have a leader - someone who will sweat the small stuff - who can keep things on track to make sure that everyone stays focused and headed in the right direction. Short of hiring a band manager, it's probably going to have to be someone in the band. This shouldn't be a problem if everyone agrees ahead of time - it can't "just happen".

 

Of course, that means that a lot of responsibility will fall upon one person, but everyone can still be actively involved. In my last band, the lead guitarist was the "leader"... he picked the songs, did the arranging, and made the set lists. He was definitely the one driving the bus. But our bass player and singer booked most of the gigs, our drummer provided a practice spot where we could also keep our equipment from week to week, and I did the website/demo/promo stuff. It worked. The band went from playing the local dive bar to playing for huge crowds. And that was fun.

 

In my new band, two of us have been sharing the majority of the responsibility since the band started. Although we try to keep things as "democratic" as possible, we still try to steer things in the direction that ewe know will benefit the band - and I mean in the "business" sense. The song list is geared towards a specific audience that frequents specific venues - so many of our favorite bands/songs have to get passed over for stuff that we know will work. We're trying to go the extra mile in everything that we do, so as to make it possible for everyone else to "just show up and play".

[BATCAT]

 

Good debate on dictator or democrat bands. Never been in anything but a democratic band.

 

 

My problem with the usual course of debate on this is that it always gets turned into a ""this way works and the other way sucks" discussion. Which is silly. I've been in successful bands with absolute leaders, completely democratic bands, and a few somewhere in-between. All that really matters is that everyone's on the same page.

 

A more interesting (to me) discission might be the relative pros and cons of each.

[axeman25]

 

My problem with the usual course of debate on this is that it always gets turned into a ""this way works and the other way sucks" discussion. Which is silly. I've been in successful bands with absolute leaders, completely democratic bands, and a few somewhere in-between. All that really matters is that everyone's on the same page. A more interesting (to me) discission might be the relative pros and cons of each.

 

 

Or maybe which one you prefer to be in a why.

 

I've been in both kinds. It's not bad when your hired to play in someone else's band. It's like a job, you show up, do your job, try not to piss off anyone on a higher pay grade than you, get paid and go home. But I've always felt that it was just that, a job. I've also been in a band with "that guy". "It's my band and you'll do it my way". Thats fine, I signed up for it.

 

I prefer to be in a good quality bar band where everyone is friends. We may not be the greatest band, but we have a lot of fun. And that's what it's about for me.

 

But thats just my opinion.................I'm probably wrong.

 

-Kevin

[Tedster]

Democracies work for some bands, for others they don't.

 

I think in *most* cases they probably don't, unless you're putting together a band of old-timers who've been at it for years.

 

As for music, I'd have to say one of the first rules for young bands is "maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses". If you REALLY want to be an AC/DC cover band, for example, but your singer sucks at it, it doesn't matter how much your guitar player plays like Angus...find something you do WELL and stick to it.

[Tedster]

 

I prefer to be in a good quality bar band where everyone is friends. We may not be the greatest band, but we have a lot of fun. And that's what it's about for me. But thats just my opinion.................I'm probably wrong. -Kevin

 

 

Opinions are never right or wrong, Kevin...they're just opinions, and you're entitled to yours as much as anyone else is. If your opinion is you like to be in a fun band with buddies...that's great, and it's perfect for you!

[Hard Truth]

I basically agree with the original poster's guideleines.

 

I have never known a band where everyone does an equal amount of work. The person who does the most work, esp the adminstrative and booking tasks, should be, and probably is, the leader, simply because they are the one who cares the most. Bandmembers who do not do the same amount of work as the hardest working person have not earned equal control of the band. On the other hand, a good leader listens and incorporates input from others.

 

If the band is free of addicts, then a moderate amount of beer drinking and smoking is OK, if the motivation is not primarilly money. After all, its about having fun. Its a strictly business situation, then yes, treat it like a job and stay totally straight.

[thepalpitations]

Totally dividing up work evenly is nearly impossible, if for no other reason than people have different areas of expertise. I do a lot of the legwork, promotion, and nearly all the songwriting, but my mates help with booking, audio work, finances, etc.

 

We are totally democratic in terms of imput - everyone contributes to the arrangements on new songs or covers - and democratic financially. However, I think it's probably a benefit to have one person who generally acts as the creative mastermind if tough decisions arise. Otherwise disagreements about arrangements can lead to stalemates and resentment. If person A says "let's solo for 32 bars" and person B says "it sounds better if we cut the solo and repeat the chorus instead" someone needs to step up and decide what will sound better.

 

Of course, this depends a lot on the personalities of your mates. The more ego you have the more problems you have, no matter what the setup is.

[axeman25]

I don't know if I've ever seen a band where each band member does equal work. That doesn't mean it's not a democracy. My singer and I probably sweat over stuff more than the drummer and bassist. But we kinda put the band together. The drummer and bassist would do more if we asked I'm sure. But right now there's not a lot to do but learn songs. But they contribute song suggestion and stuff equally.

 

Thank god that there is no ego problems in this band. Both the drummer and bassist toured nationally for about five years and played with some pretty major acts. The drummer is good enough to have an ego though. But he's pretty cool.

 

-Kevin

[knobye]

My band is semi-democratic in that when it comes to the music, we listen to every suggestion equally and try everything out. We stay with the option that the majority votes sounds the best, but always leave the option to change things at a later date.

 

I consider myself the herder in the business sense, as in herding a bunch of rabbits. In Watership Down, the narrator describes getting a group of rabbits to do anything as a patient endeavor: you have to let them hop at their own pace. so, while the drummer actually knows how to program great looking websites, it takes more than a carrot or a stick for him to update it if he's grumpy or unmotivated. If others in the band decide to do something, I let them do it, but if no one takes up the reins, I get the wagon rolling. The one thing that remains constant is that everyone shows up to practice and shows on time and always brings their A game.

[axepilot]

Seems like everyone has latched onto the "leader" point. Allow me to clarify my position on this.......................................

 

I'm the leader of my band, but I'm far from a dictator. I'm more of a "facilitator" - I'm the one that keeps things focused and on track. Everyone in the band has equal input, and decisions are based on consensus. I just guide the process and throw in the tie breaking vote if need be. That's how I approach being the "leader". I don't dictate any part of the creative process when we're hashing out music - put it all on the table and we'll arrive at a decision that works for us.

 

This segues back to playing with like minded individuals. There's no need to put your foot down if the band is all looking for the same things. You just guide the process and herd the cats.

 

I've played in bands that basically had no adult supervision, and they all never worked out - everyone was out for themselves and looking to be top dog...........................big ego wars.

 

Since I'm there, I'll add another point:

 

-Check your ego at the door. For a band to succeed, it has to be an all out team effort. That means throttling your ego back a notch and doing whatever it takes to make the band sound great - not just your own playing. A good band works as a team. Don't be offended if your favorite solo is played better by the other guitar player. Do what it takes to make the entire band sound better.

 

If the band kills and sounds great, so do you.

[GreenAsJade]

Spot on Axepilot.

 

You need a "leader" in a "chairperson" sense. A casting vote. The ultimate call.

 

I'm sure there's probably one out there, but I wouldn't recommend setting up a committee democracy one vote one value band!

 

Gorgon said it too:

 

There is a difference between a band leader and a dictator in my book. A leader listens to and takes on board the opinions of the band and if necessary makes the final decision if there isn't a consensus. A dictator just lays the law down according to their opinion.

 

Everyone has input, someone calls the result.

 

Doesn't have to be the same person for each topic either. Our vocalist calls the result on material selection: everyone contributes ideas, thoughts etc.

 

Just about everything else ... it's me

 

GaJ