Members Electric Catfish Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 You wonder why you are playing for the door..... and getting shit pay. Good bands dont have to play for the door ..... Good bands can dial down the volume and sound good ,,,, people whoe hire, like that and will pay top dollar ... not the door. It does not take electronic drums to bring down the volume of the drummer ,,, it takes a good drummer. have you ever played with one? You can take this post to the bank ,, in the form of a nice check.. Bar owners decide what is acceptable volume. Successful bands get good at figuring out what "acceptable" volume in a given room is - and then staying in that zone. Those that can't, don't - or worse, won't - play one night only engagements - and bitch about "stupid bar owners" alot. No, I've never played with a good drummer. Not all of us are the master musician that you are, rat. You've apparently got a lot of money, as well as critical accolades out the wazoo. Congratulations. I bet your lounge act plays "Mustang Sally" better than anybody. BTW, I never said anything about playing for just the door. Just that the door money is used to pay the band. Do they have to let folks into your shows for free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 rhat, have you considered that maybe, just maybe they weren't that loud? Is it possible for a band to not be that loud and still have someone complain about the volume? I have no idea ,,, I do know if the guy that writes the checks says you were too loud ,,,, and takes the time to tell you ,,, you were too loud. too loud is one of the most common things wrong that bands do .....what you think is loud really doesnt matter. Its the guy who writes the checks and hires the bands. A patron complaining about the band being too loud is one thing...... the guy that hires you ,,, sorry thats the gold standard. He is the guy thats providing the gold. You can listen to him or you can ignore him. He can not hire you,, and he can tell his buds in the biz not to hire you too. People in the crowd can tell their friends too. I know what too loud is.... its tyically when i get up and leave......I typically will tell the guy at the door why i left as well. I like a good rock band as well as the next guy ,,,, I do know what too loud is. you have to fill the room ,, but you dont need to drill away at the ears of the people who are in the bar. You dont have to be really loud to be really good. you have to be really tight to sound really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Catfish Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 If more folks were paying to get into your show, he wouldn't have to pay you with a check. You seem to think that your opinion is some sort of standard. You know what "too loud" is??? Could it be that you have your opinion, which may be different than others'? Opinions can only be held. Facts are "known". HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BigMac5 Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 I have no idea ,,, I do know if the guy that writes the checks says you were too loud ,,,, and takes the time to tell you ,,, you were too loud. too loud is one of the most common things wrong that bands do .....what you think is loud really doesnt matter. Its the guy who writes the checks and hires the bands. A patron complaining about the band being too loud is one thing...... the guy that hires you ,,, sorry thats the gold standard. He is the guy thats providing the gold. You can listen to him or you can ignore him. He can not hire you,, and he can tell his buds in the biz not to hire you too. People in the crowd can tell their friends too. I know what too loud is.... its tyically when i get up and leave......I typically will tell the guy at the door why i left as well. I like a good rock band as well as the next guy ,,,, I do know what too loud is. you have to fill the room ,, but you dont need to drill away at the ears of the people who are in the bar. You dont have to be really loud to be really good. you have to be really tight to sound really good.So, what if you are playing at the lowest volume humanly possible (for a rock band) and he still tells you you are too loud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 So, what if you are playing at the lowest volume humanly possible (for a rock band) and he still tells you you are too loud? somehow i dont quite believe you were playing at that level. we used to practice at some pretty insane low volumes and that was with a 7 piece with horns. You had no problem talking over us in a basement. Only you know how loud you were. The guy that writes the checks said you were too loud. What is there about that ,, you dont understand. Good bands can turn it down and sound good. I almost think bands have too much sound equipment much of the time ,,, not knowing how to mix off the amp knobs seems to be a big problem with bands.... members crank their amps to get their tone then they try to use miced sound re enforcment.... Many times they end up making mud thats too loud. I wasnt there. but the guy that hires said you were too loud,,, he was there and he writes the checks. Like space said ,, its prolly not gonna be a problem ,,,, i doubt that he will hire you back unless you play for peanuts..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Catfish Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 Once more, the audience is ultimately the one "signing the check". Loyalty to a venue is only necessary if you have no following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BigMac5 Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 somehow i dont quite believe you were playing at that level. we used to practice at some pretty insane low volumes and that was with a 7 piece with horns. You had no problem talking over us in a basement. Only you know how loud you were. The guy that writes the checks said you were too loud. What is there about that ,, you dont understand. Good bands can turn it down and sound good. I almost think bands have too much sound equipment much of the time ,,, not knowing how to mix off the amp knobs seems to be a big problem with bands.... members crank their amps to get their tone then they try to use miced sound re enforcment.... Many times they end up making mud thats too loud. I wasnt there. but the guy that hires said you were too loud,,, he was there and he writes the checks. Like space said ,, its prolly not gonna be a problem ,,,, i doubt that he will hire you back unless you play for peanuts..... I think you have me confuse with the op. I wasn't there and neither where you. I just think it's possible for the bar owner to be a jerk and the op's band wasn't that loud. It's also possible that the bar owner was right and the op's band was too loud. Every coin has two sides, but you wont even consider the possibility that the bar owner was just a jerk. We played a charity event one time. Our drummer plays really soft and our volume was reasonable. Amps just loud enough to be hear over the drums. Sure enough this old guy come over to me and complained that it was too loud. Apparently he was someone of importance at the club. He wanted to shut us down and there was a huge discussion about it. Nobody else had a problem with the volume which was very reasonable. Finally the event organizer came around and told me "if the old fart doesn't like it he can leave, everybody else is having a good time." The old guy left and everybody there had fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Catfish Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 I think you have me confuse with the op. I wasn't there and neither where you. I just think it's possible for the bar owner to be a jerk and the op's band wasn't that loud. It's also possible that the bar owner was right and the op's band was too loud. Every coin has two sides, but you wont even consider the possibility that the bar owner was just a jerk. We played a charity event one time. Our drummer plays really soft and our volume was reasonable. Amps just loud enough to be hear over the drums. Sure enough this old guy come over to me and complained that it was too loud. Apparently he was someone of importance at the club. He wanted to shut us down and there was a huge discussion about it. Nobody else had a problem with the volume which was very reasonable. Finally the event organizer came around and told me "if the old fart doesn't like it he can leave, everybody else is having a good time." The old guy left and everybody there had fun. But,,,,but,,.,,,guy who signs checks is always right,,,,,audience knows nothing,,,,unless audience is rhat,,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members caveman Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 The bar is paying for a band..... they have the right to expect a pro band to be able to dial the sound down to a level that satisfies them. Pro drummers should be able to dial down the volume. I have left bars due to the band being too loud. I am sure the band didnt feel they were too loud. I won't stay if the band is so loud that they suck either. If you take a man's money, you ought to be professional enough to respect his wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 I think you have me confuse with the op. I wasn't there and neither where you. I just think it's possible for the bar owner to be a jerk and the op's band wasn't that loud. It's also possible that the bar owner was right and the op's band was too loud. Every coin has two sides, but you wont even consider the possibility that the bar owner was just a jerk. We played a charity event one time. Our drummer plays really soft and our volume was reasonable. Amps just loud enough to be hear over the drums. Sure enough this old guy come over to me and complained that it was too loud. Apparently he was someone of importance at the club. He wanted to shut us down and there was a huge discussion about it. Nobody else had a problem with the volume which was very reasonable. Finally the event organizer came around and told me "if the old fart doesn't like it he can leave, everybody else is having a good time." The old guy left and everybody there had fun. Different situation ,,, the old fart wasnt writing the check. Most bar owners know what too loud is. they also know what sucks is. Sometimes they substitute too loud for sucks to keep from just telling a band they suck. I have been around the block enough to know that some patrons will say its too loud.... most bar owners know their room and know what a good band sounds like in there. rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Catfish Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 I won't stay if the band is so loud that they suck either. If you take a man's money, you ought to be professional enough to respect his wishes. You make getting paid sound like charity. I don't feel like I'm "taking a man's money" when I get paid at the end of the night. I feel like I'm getting paid for what I do... Assuming the OP was true (and why assume otherwise? it's the entire premise of the discussion, after all), the audience GREW as the night went on. That says a lot more about the reality of it than one guy (the owner) who may have just caught one of his bouncers {censored}ing his old lady earlier in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BigMac5 Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 Different situation ,,, the old fart wasnt writing the check. So what you're saying is if the old guy was paying us he would have been right? But because he wasn't he was wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 Here is a fact. If the owner of the bar says you were too loud, you were too loud for that bar. If you are incapable of playing quieter, or choose not to, don't play there again. That does not change the fact that you were too loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Catfish Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 So what you're saying is if the old guy was paying us he would have been right? But because he wasn't he was wrong? Get your head around this... According to his earlier claim that he'd leave a place if it was "too loud" (which he "knows" what is), the old guy could have been rhat, theoretically. Which would mean that he is wrong. Or right. Hell, I can't keep up with it.... I think he'd be right, regardless, though. After all, he "knows" things that the rest of us merely hold opinions about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 So what you're saying is if the old guy was paying us he would have been right? But because he wasn't he was wrong? The guy writing the check is always right .... its one of the first rules you learn in business. Hey you can just write the guy off as being an ass clown ,, its not my gig and its not my band. It prolly wont be your gig again. thats cool. The question you wanna ask,, is how many times can you write the bar owner off as being an ass clown till you are out of bars....... Hey i am easy ,,,, until its my gig some volume monkey is fukin up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Catfish Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 Here is a fact. If the owner of the bar says you were too loud, you were too loud for that bar. If you are incapable of playing quieter, or choose not to, don't play there again. That does not change the fact that you were too loud. You, much like rhat, seem to have the definitions of the words "opinion" and "fact" confused, somehow. The type of bar makes a big difference, too. If folks are there for the music, and going out to see a show, a higher volume is going to be tolerated than if its a lounge act providing a backdrop to middle-aged divorcees trying to get some ass. It's all about context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BigMac5 Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 The guy writing the check is always right .... its one of the first rules you learn in business. Hey you can just write the guy off as being an ass clown ,, its not my gig and its not my band. It prolly wont be your gig again. thats cool. The question you wanna ask,, is how many times can you write the bar owner off as being an ass clown till you are out of bars....... Hey i am easy ,,,, until its my gig some volume monkey is fukin up. I guess this is were we disagree. I have heard many people say " the customer is alway right, even when he's wrong." I guess for you it is " the guy writing the check is always right." Also, remember a lot of time it's not what you say it's how you say it. I got the impression from the op (I could be wrong) that it was not that he was told he was too loud that pissed him off, it's how the owner told him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 It's also possible that the bar owner was right and the op's band was too loud. Every coin has two sides If the band is bringing a crowd and packing the place in, a smart owner will STFU and let the registers ring, and the beer flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 No, I've never played with a good drummer. Not all of us are the master musician that you are, rat. You've apparently got a lot of money, as well as critical accolades out the wazoo. Congratulations. I bet your lounge act plays "Mustang Sally" better than anybody. BTW, I never said anything about playing for just the door. Just that the door money is used to pay the band. Do they have to let folks into your shows for free? Hell i havent been in a band for years ... but i can assure you that when i was ,,,, i never played for the door. I cant even remember if we did mustang sally ,, if we did it was a full arrangment with horns.,,and it was to- 40., we did blood sweat and tears. and a crapper load of motown, and shit with 3 part vocals. as for the drummer ,,, she sat in a set with the woodie herman band at age 18. Na we got about 400 bucks for the shows... That was pretty close to 40 years ago .... We were basically what you call a wedding band these days. We did a big variety of stuff ,, even could lay out the polkas if you wanted them. I am not a master musican ,, but we knew how to mix on the fly and not get complaints about being too loud and we worked with alot less in the way of sound system frills than you have today..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 Also, remember a lot of time it's not what you say it's how you say it. I got the impression from the op (I could be wrong) that it was not that he was told he was too loud that pissed him off, it's how the owner told him. Did you not miss the fact that he told him twice that they were too loud and then told them again when he paid them? So thats 3 times.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Catfish Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 Hell i havent been in a band for years ... but i can assure you that when i was ,,,, i never played for the door. I cant even remember if we did mustang sally ,, if we did it was a full arrangment with horns.,,and it was to- 40., we did blood sweat and tears. and a crapper load of motown, and shit with 3 part vocals. as for the drummer ,,, she sat in a set with the woodie herman band at age 18. Na we got about 400 bucks for the shows... That was pretty close to 40 years ago .... We were basically what you call a wedding band these days. We did a big variety of stuff ,, even could lay out the polkas if you wanted them. I am not a master musican ,, but we knew how to mix on the fly and not get complaints about being too loud and we worked with alot less in the way of sound system frills than you have today..... You apparently missed it the first time, so I'll repeat it (even though it's in the very post that you quoted). "I never said anything about playing for just the door. Just that the door money is used to pay the band. Do they have to let folks into your shows for free?" IOW, door/ticket sales/whatever is where the cash to pay the band with comes from. Unless, of course, nobody shows up, and they have to write a check to cover the guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BigMac5 Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 Did you not miss the fact that he told him twice that they were too loud.That does not give you the right to be rude or a jerk to someone. They did turn down after being told they where too loud. It's not like they just blew him off and played the gig without turning down. The op said that they turn down enough for the drums to overpower the mix. Many people feel they can be rude to you just because they're paying you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members caveman Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 Go on and play as loud as you damn well please. Screw the man and if he doesn't like it, he can kiss your ass. It's not like he could find anybody to replace you anyway. Turning down is selling out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Catfish Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 Go on and play as loud as you damn well please. Screw the man and if he doesn't like it, he can kiss your ass. It's not like he could find anybody to replace you anyway. Turning down is selling out! Why are you jumping to the conclusion that the OP is lying? If you think the OP is a lie, why did you even bother joining the discussion? You seem to think that its built on a weak premise. Nobody except you said anything about the "man" or "selling out". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted February 3, 2008 Members Share Posted February 3, 2008 I've met plenty of drugged up, drunked out assholes that run nightclubs. Nothing they say or do, would surprise me. That includes treating a top draw band like {censored}. So take your following down the street to his competition, and keep it there - or, raise your rate on the asshole if he wants you back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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