NPR on corporate execs in bands

[Deeprig9]

I don't think it's repect they are after. They'd get no more respect until they'd earned it than anyone else, rich or poor. If you had a million dollars, won the lottery or found a few bricks of gold buried in your backyard, would you still play a Squire and a Crate combo? These are guys who want to pursue their hobby, and they've got the money to do it. What if they went out and bought a million dollar fishing boat? Should all the other fishermen with smaller boats be jealous and resentful that Mr. Richie Rich shows up with his big shiny boat but doesn't know how to catch fish?!? In fact, what usually happens, is the fishermen and Richie Rich become very good friends. They show him some fishing spots, and get to ride along and fish with great gear, in comfort! Wealth envy irritates me. Can't we all just get along?

[Deeprig9]

And think about it this way... the more time those evil rich people spend practicing arpeggios, the less time they spend in the evil cave making evil capitalistic plans to keep the working man down...

[rhat]

I don't think it's repect they are after. They'd get no more respect until they'd earned it than anyone else, rich or poor. If you had a million dollars, won the lottery or found a few bricks of gold buried in your backyard, would you still play a Squire and a Crate combo? These are guys who want to pursue their hobby, and they've got the money to do it. What if they went out and bought a million dollar fishing boat? Should all the other fishermen with smaller boats be jealous and resentful that Mr. Richie Rich shows up with his big shiny boat but doesn't know how to catch fish?!? In fact, what usually happens, is the fishermen and Richie Rich become very good friends. They show him some fishing spots, and get to ride along and fish with great gear, in comfort! Wealth envy irritates me. Can't we all just get along?

 

 

 

I rubbed elbows with alot of well off people when i was in aviation. One observation I made was , that most of them would go buy quality gear or whatever when they bought. Typically they didnt buy anymore of it than they needed. I knew a dentist that played bass. He played a vintage 69 bass and classic tube amp. He bought the stuff new and played it for till the day he passed away.

[SpaceNorman]

 

The other thing is - good luck getting respect from fellow musicians; rightly so - pay your dues like everyone else, don't buy your way onto the scene.

 

 

Sorry Wade - but I gotta comment on this one.

 

My bet is that any successful executive who has put together a performing band on the side as a hobby isn't the least bit concerned about appearances and "getting respect" - and rightfully so!

 

For the most part - successful executives have a combination of sound judgement, people skills and work ethic that has a track record of earning the respect of knowledgeable people around them. While it's very possible (and maybe even highly likely) they don't possess the highest level of musical talent in the bands they're associated with - the other skills they add to the mix will earn them an appropriate measure of respect. It's no secret that possessing stellar chops alone isn't a ticket for success - and that plenty of musicians who possess stellar chops are considered pariahs in the musician community.

 

I'm certain that the successful executives who are at the heart of this thread have earned the respect of their bandmates. I have no doubt that they're smart enough to know that the opinion of any musician who would conclude they "bought their way onto the scene" simply because they've got a darn good day gig don't mean {censored}! - and won't let the fear of offending a envious competitor slow them down one iota!

[Deeprig9]

It's not for anybody to really say who "deserves" what, other than the court system... If nothing else, these guys will figure out that money and awesome gear can't buy you talent - it'll get you talented sidemen, but it won't make YOU a better player. The other thing is - good luck getting respect from fellow musicians; rightly so - pay your dues like everyone else, don't buy your way onto the scene.

 

 

 

Why do you assume these people are trying to buy talent?

 

And how is buying nice gear and hiring good musicians "buying your way" onto a scene?

 

What exactly is "the scene" anyway?

[wades_keys]

-1,000,000,000 After my ex-wife got everything and more (and continues to do so), I must dissent with this point of view......

I'm not sure I follow you...

I never said anything about fair - I'm getting screwed royally myself by the court system.

My point being is the court has the power to do something about this "problem" - all we can do is just whine about the rich folks....

[wades_keys]

I dont know ,,, I always made my best strides in improving when I was playing with players that were better than I was.

 

Well, yeah...what's that have to do with dropping 250,000 to play on half of Keith Moon's drumkit?

 

{censored}, I guess I'm thick today - you all take it away, I'm out cuz really I couldn't give 2 freaking {censored}s about rich folk spending cash on toys...

 

And if y'all can't relate to what I'm saying about "buying your way" onto a scene, then I ain't gonna argue that either - why bother..

 

Hell, there's folks that post on this board that fall into that category - I ain't namin names, you know who you are.

[wades_keys]

Sorry Wade - but I gotta comment on this one. For the most part - successful executives have a combination of sound judgement, people skills and work ethic that has a track record of earning the respect of knowledgeable people around them.

 

I know, I work with one in a variety band - he's got 30 guitars or more hanging on the wall, multi-million dollar home, nice title at Sysco foods, and a track record of 20+ years of success with bands.

 

Not arguing with you at all on that - really I'm not arguing anything - not sure how I got sucked into that....

[Hamer_Time]

I'm not sure I follow you... I never said anything about fair - I'm getting screwed royally myself by the court system. My point being is the court has the power to do something about this "problem" - all we can do is just whine about the rich folks....

It was a bit tounge-in-cheek and only regarding the way divorces work around here (and appearently there too)........not about the whole rich guy thing - of which I couldn't really give two {censored}s about personally......stay strong man, there is light at the end of the tunnel.......of course my tunnel is still going to take another 10-12 years to get through.....

[rhat]

I don't think it's repect they are after. They'd get no more respect until they'd earned it than anyone else, rich or poor. If you had a million dollars, won the lottery or found a few bricks of gold buried in your backyard, would you still play a Squire and a Crate combo? These are guys who want to pursue their hobby, and they've got the money to do it. What if they went out and bought a million dollar fishing boat? Should all the other fishermen with smaller boats be jealous and resentful that Mr. Richie Rich shows up with his big shiny boat but doesn't know how to catch fish?!? In fact, what usually happens, is the fishermen and Richie Rich become very good friends. They show him some fishing spots, and get to ride along and fish with great gear, in comfort! Wealth envy irritates me. Can't we all just get along?

 

 

 

Na they are just looking for the same thing the rest of us are looking for ,,, Some people to make music with.

 

If brain surgery is their day job.... it doesnt make any difference when they plug in an put on their bass player hat.

[SpaceNorman]

 

Hell, there's folks that post on this board that fall into that category - I ain't namin names, you know who you are.

 

 

Wade I think that a pretty compelling argument could be made that almost all of us fall into that category. It's simply a matter of scale and perspective.

 

Considering the total costs most of us have incurred in order to make the music in the manner in which we make (the equipment we're purchased, the time we've invested in band rehearsals, the opportunity costs associated with the time we've spent on band, etc.) - it wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn that ALL if us subsidize our involvement in music to some degree.

 

Not to worry ... it doesn't make us all bad people.

[gbl102]

I rubbed elbows with alot of well off people when i was in aviation. One observation I made was , that most of them would go buy quality gear or whatever when they bought. Typically they didnt buy anymore of it than they needed. I knew a dentist that played bass. He played a vintage 69 bass and classic tube amp. He bought the stuff new and played it for till the day he passed away.

 

 

I must confess this is me. I worked my butt off in college and now I'm fortunate enough to have a really well paying job. As a result, I am able to afford quality gear and i do it with the intent of only ever buying it once. "buy once, buy right."

 

If you buy cheap stuff, you'll eventually have to replace it. If you buy quality gear, you'll only need to maintain it.

[rhat]

I must confess this is me. I worked my butt off in college and now I'm fortunate enough to have a really well paying job. As a result, I am able to afford quality gear and i do it with the intent of only ever buying it once. "buy once, buy right." If you buy cheap stuff, you'll eventually have to replace it. If you buy quality gear, you'll only need to maintain it.

 

 

 

Yup ,,, Its cheaper to only have to buy one time. You dont need 22 guitars if you have a couple real keepers. that said we are fortunate these days that you can buy an in expensive guitar that is very playable. It wasnt always like that.

[wades_keys]

Wade I think that a pretty compelling argument could be made that almost all of us fall into that category. It's simply a matter of scale and perspective. Considering the total costs most of us have incurred in order to make the music in the manner in which we make (the equipment we're purchased, the time we've invested in band rehearsals, the opportunity costs associated with the time we've spent on band, etc.) - it wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn that ALL if us subsidize our involvement in music to some degree. Not to worry ... it doesn't make us all bad people.

 

Never said it was bad - it is what it is.

[jaxn slim]

Not really. A huge amount of vintage gear is bought up by investors, often investor groups, who don't even play. These instruments go from one safe or secure display room to the next, without ever even seeing a musician. You could say that these guys are the reason that 99% of us will never be able to afford a beach house or a Bentley, too, but that's a road I just won't go down. If anyone has worked their balls off to get into a position to afford nice things later, more power to 'em. My kid is in school to be a doctor. Maybe HE can buy me that '59 Les Paul!

I don't think that beach houses and Bentleys have seen the same recent spike in prices that vintage music gear has. Sure, they could all be considered luxury goods. But that's about all they have in common. The supply side of the Bentley and beach house market is a little different, too.
I can't claim to know much about vintage Bentley's, but I know that vintage beach houses aren't fetching much of a premium.

And why are the investors buying it? Because rich baby boomers are buying them up as fast as they can to recapture their youth, etc. Investors might be making it worse, but the demand curve would be shaped a little differently if it weren't for these guys.

[rhat]

I don't think that beach houses and Bentleys have seen the same recent spike in prices that vintage music gear has. Sure, they could all be considered luxury goods. But that's about all they have in common. The supply side of the Bentley and beach house market is a little different, too. I can't claim to know much about vintage Bentley's, but I know that vintage beach houses aren't fetching much of a premium. And why are the investors buying it? Because rich baby boomers are buying them up as fast as they can to recapture their youth, etc. Investors might be making it worse, but the demand curve would be shaped a little differently if it weren't for these guys.

 

 

 

 

I would guess the vintage stuff gets traded among investors more than it gets sold to boomers with a big checkbook. Alot of those boomers have vintage guitars they bought new. The guys that dont have still have their vintage gear.,know you can go buy a strat or a LP that will get the job done as well for a fraction of the price. Trust me no one in their 50s that actually played that stuff is going to spent the price of a new car for a freekin guitar. I cant speak for the 40 sumthins.

[elbow]

I don't think that beach houses and Bentleys have seen the same recent spike in prices that vintage music gear has. Sure, they could all be considered luxury goods. But that's about all they have in common. The supply side of the Bentley and beach house market is a little different, too. I can't claim to know much about vintage Bentley's, but I know that vintage beach houses aren't fetching much of a premium. And why are the investors buying it? Because rich baby boomers are buying them up as fast as they can to recapture their youth, etc. Investors might be making it worse, but the demand curve would be shaped a little differently if it weren't for these guys.

So if we wait a few more years we can get them cheap when their kids put all their stuff up for sale.

They can't recapture their youth with a POD?

[BlueStrat]

 

but I know that vintage beach houses aren't fetching much of a premium.

Try moving here. That beach house that went for 45k in 1978 is about 3 mil.

 

But anyway, that wasn't my point. Of course rich folks drive the price of things up. Prices of things are based on what anyone is willing to pay. That isn't anything new. The point is, being envious of someone or scornful of them because they can afford stuff I can't is immature and pointless. Want a '54 Strat? I do, but the truth is, I'm not willing to do what it takes to get the kind of dough it takes to get one. That's not anyone's fault but my own.

 

It's always easier to piss and moan about other people having stuff that I'm not willing to go get than it is to go get it for myself.

 

I'm not saying you do that, but I sure have done my fair share of it in the past, and I hear class envy all the time from my friends and fellow workers, as if those guys who spent 11 years in college getting a medical degree while I drank, doped, and chased poon while working low paying jobs somehow screwed us over.

[wades_keys]

Try moving here. That beach house that went for 45k in 1978 is about 3 mil. But anyway, that wasn't my point. Of course rich folks drive the price up. Prices of things are based on what anyone is willing to pay. That isn't anything new. The point is, being envious of someone or scornful of them because they can afford stuff I can't is immature and pointless. Want a '54 Strat?

 

 

Yeah no doubt.

 

I judge a man on the content of his character, not the thickness of his wallet.

 

I'd expect the same in return.

[gtrbass]

I think the NPR story has a twinge of jealousy. Why does Paul Allen (a founder of Microsoft) own a primo '59 Les Paul? Because he can...

There are also executives out there who used to be serious pro players and now do something different in life. Does that mean their talent and skills went out the window? Even if a guy was playing when he was young, stopped to build a career, and has now gotten back into it, who knows? He might be an awesome musician.

I did an audition for a band a few years ago and this 'guitar player' gives me crap about being a guy who 'plays music instead of golf' and although over 40, he was serious about making it. His day gig was as being a waiter. He was a pretty good songwriter, but didn't have the chops to back up his ambitions. He is still a waiter.

I used to be a sideman & studio guy in LA in the '80's. I made a change in career path when I realized that my compensation for working extremely hard didn't measure up to my expectations. I also know an Anesthesiologist who was a NYC studio player in the '70's disco scene, who paid for med school from his gigs. Very rare of course, but it's a fact.

One band I work with is about to release a new record which is like the Dixie dregs. It's a great record but I think we all know the sales figures aren't going to support our mortgages.
One member is the Director of Operations for Sprint/Nextel.
One member is an IT manager for Line 6.
One member (me) is the director of implementation for a software company.
One member is a film/TV director.
One member is in technical production for a long running ABC series.
One member is the musical director for American Idol.

We all own great gear. We were all hardcore pros at one point or another. (At least one still is, but it's his day job.) We just decided that financial responsibility to our families was a priority at some point. I know a lot of players in this category.

I'll bet there are a lot of guys on this forum who have a successful career and are also badass players. I know at least five off the top of my head.

[jaxn slim]

The point is, being envious of someone or scornful of them because they can afford stuff I can't is immature and pointless.

I'm not saying you do that...

[rd2play]

I really don't get it. Who determines what kind of gear one should play? Bending to the wrong pitch, baaad, demoted to Wall Mart guitar. Right hand alternate picking improved 10bpm's, upgrade to Squier is OK. Playing clean chords without muting improperly, now we talk, MIM Strat is well deserved. And so on...

I played with very good musicians in bands that split because of adults with childish egos. Now I play in a band with very successful professionals who aren't excellent musicians (not that I am great), but who are enthusiastic, reliable, fun and have superb equipment. Guess which band/band mates I enjoy most? (Disclaimer: obviously the ideal combination is an excellent musician with pro gear and right attitude).

This is nothing but class envy. Would I like to make the money that my band mates make? Yeeeesss. Did I go to school longer than they did? No. Did I work harder and longer than they did? Again, no. Then what did I do to deserve their level of income? Uhhh...nothing special... Then why should I expect it? Furthermore, why should I scorn them for rewarding themselves with expensive gear?

This diatribe isn't addressed to anyone in particular on this thread. It's just my rant; maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that nowadays the media peddles the class envy issue more than in the past.

[PJenkins]

We have the same thing. These guys bought a failed club and use it just for rehearsal and private parties. They're really nice guys, though, and don't play clubs. They don't want to be in a situation where they get called away to an emergency in the middle of a booked gig, so hey do doctor functions and birthday parties and so on. Two of the guys are in the ortho group who did my knee replacement.

 

 

I don't mean to be putting these guys down. I'm told they are doctors, by the bar manager, who does all the hiring. And I've heard it elsewhere. What kind? I don't know. I'm sure they are very nice guys, but I've never talked to them.

 

What sets them apart from every other group around here is the $40 or $50k worth of gear they bring to their gigs.

They brought, actually rented, a stage to the place I saw them. They have at least $15k worth of lights, truss, backdrops,side curtains, etc., for the stage look. It's gotta be a $25K sound system, 2 cab per side line array, subs somewhere, I couldn't see 'em but I felt 'em. I only got a glimpse of the racks, but full of blinkin lights, knobs and buttons( i'm being facetious) and of course betwixt them their backline was worth at least $10 or $15k.

 

As I said, I consider their, musical performance as average,(I'm not putting them down,I consider myself slightly above Hack status on keyboards) but the lights and stage appearence is over the top as far as local gigs go. It is impressive. Its got to be computer controlled. The point is, there's no way I can compete with that. The set up and tear down has to be many hours.

 

Anyway ,the gig pays $350.00 a night. So go figure.

[c4racer]

More power to them.... But guys like them are the reason good vintage gear is out of the price range of 99% of us.

I would say just the opposite - those are the kind of guys who will end up selling all that killer gear at some point and they won't care how much they get for it, just want it gone. Leaving good opportunities for the rest of us scavengers

[rd2play]

I would say just the opposite - those are the kind of guys who will end up selling all that killer gear at some point and they won't care how much they get for it, just want it gone. Leaving good opportunities for the rest of us scavengers

You're so right. That's how I got my most expensive guitar, a beautiful spotless "used" Heritage