Members Keevun Posted March 29, 2009 Members Share Posted March 29, 2009 I need some help here. The problem with my band is our singer. The rest of the band has been preparing about 16 songs for a couple of weeks. Our singer has missed the first few practices, (for legit reasons) but when he finally showed up for practice yesterday, he knew NONE of the songs. This seemed outrageous to me because I made him a CD of all of the songs we are covering, and he had 3 weeks to listen to the CD. Here is where the problem is. The singer is one of my closest friends, so I don't want to kick him out of the band straight out. He is very talented, just extremely lazy, and he thinks he can use crappy reasons, (I didn't have time, etc.) and think that those excuses can hold water in a band of 4 other people in similar situations. We already have a gig lined up, and it would probably take me a while to find another singer of his talent. What should I do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LightingPimp Posted March 29, 2009 Members Share Posted March 29, 2009 tell him straight up if hes your friend he wont get pissed , ESP if it something he can control. not much excuse other then being hospitalized for three weeks to not learn the songs If you have a gig on the books explain to him that said show date is coming up , and that the band would like to have a front man on stage that knows the songs hes singing , and that the band would like to not be made to look like a idiot by having to cancel because he didnt hold up his obligations , and that you certainly dont wanna have to walk off stage cause your singer doesnt know the sones , misses words or just flat out kill them . friends in bands doesnt mean you cant tell them exactly whats on your mind , tell him straight up now cause if not he will become complacent in his position and will likely be come a long time issue. BUT on the other hand if you knew hes lazy then what did you expect ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keevun Posted March 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 29, 2009 tell him straight up if hes your friend he wont get pissed The problem is that he will get pissed. He is a very tempermental person and we butted heads over him not knowing the songs. The convo went a little bit like this:Me: "So are you just gonna read the lyrics all day, or are you going to sing?"Him: "If you don't want me here, I can just leave!"Luckily for me, the other band members saw a serious argument coming and intervened here, but I almost lost it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 29, 2009 Members Share Posted March 29, 2009 The convo went a little bit like this:Me: "So are you just gonna read the lyrics all day, or are you going to sing?"Him: "If you don't want me here, I can just leave!"Me: "You might as well since you haven't lifted a finger to contribute and learn your parts. We'll get somebody else. Thanks for coming." Seriously, this is passive aggressive manipulation in it's purest form. He says he wants to be a lead singer but doesn't work at it. You call him on it (more gently than I would have) and he turns it back on you. Who needs friends like this? If it were me I'd tell him if he doesn't have the lyrics to at least three songs learned by next rehearsal, he shouldn't bother showing up ever again. If he pitches a fit about that, he's gone. And I'd start looking for someone else. Today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pmtrub Posted March 29, 2009 Members Share Posted March 29, 2009 I need some help here. The problem with my band is our singer. The rest of the band has been preparing about 16 songs for a couple of weeks. Our singer has missed the first few practices, (for legit reasons) but when he finally showed up for practice yesterday, he knew NONE of the songs. This seemed outrageous to me because I made him a CD of all of the songs we are covering, and he had 3 weeks to listen to the CD. Here is where the problem is. The singer is one of my closest friends, so I don't want to kick him out of the band straight out. He is very talented, just extremely lazy, and he thinks he can use crappy reasons, (I didn't have time, etc.) and think that those excuses can hold water in a band of 4 other people in similar situations. We already have a gig lined up, and it would probably take me a while to find another singer of his talent. What should I do? I'm having a similar situation with a drummer, who is a close friend. The fact that your singer didn't learn the songs should speak to his level of interest in the band. You can't force him to be interested if he just isn't. Sit down and talk with him about what your expectations for the band are, anticipate that his expectations may be different. If you have to part ways, at least it will be under civil circumstances. What are your reasons for playing in a band with someone who is a close friend, is he talented, are you more comfortable working with someone who you are close to? I suspect that you knew before the project started that this guy might have a tendency to be lazy, but you overlooked that in favor of his talent or the friendship. My drummer is very talented, and also a good friend. These two things, plus a need for a drummer to get my project going distracted me from some of his shortcomings, which has eventually caused me to regret the decision to pick him up. good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LightingPimp Posted March 29, 2009 Members Share Posted March 29, 2009 The problem is that he will get pissed. He is a very tempermental person and we butted heads over him not knowing the songs. The convo went a little bit like this: Me: "So are you just gonna read the lyrics all day, or are you going to sing?" Him: "If you don't want me here, I can just leave!" Luckily for me, the other band members saw a serious argument coming and intervened here, but I almost lost it. i will say from that conversation he has his mind somewhere else , and it isnt singing. being the singer is IMHO one of the easier duties in the band. and if he cant handle that , how will handle gigs ? i mean picture you and the other guys sitting in a bar , setup waiting for your friend the lead singer who hasn't called or showed up yet because in his on mind something more important came up and he forgot .. Him: "If you don't want me here, I can just leave!" we practice one night a week , we have two band members driving 50 miles to the practice studio in lead guitarists basement , the lead singer if he wants to sing and do it in your band he will learn the songs plain n simple . these signs you are seeing are signs of a train wreck coming down the tracks and abrupt harsh end to your friendship ... i would say if you before practice next time sit down have a real talk with the guy find out where his heart is and go from there if it were me i would terminate the professional relationship with him if he doesnt get it together next practice session ( or before depending on his attitude after the talk ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ender_rpm Posted March 29, 2009 Members Share Posted March 29, 2009 Kick him to the curb Nancy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JimiRules Posted March 29, 2009 Members Share Posted March 29, 2009 I was in a band with a guy like that. He refused to practice on his own, listen to the countless number of CD's that we made him and was always coming into practice and fumbling over the same songs over and over. We even let HIM pick the songs too, so it's not like we were trying to get him to do songs that he didn't want to do. Finally we told him he was out. How does your other band mates feel about this? Do they share your opinion? Are they tired of wasting their time with this guy? I'd have a talk with him because they could all jump ship on you. If he gets mad and says he might as well leave then let him. Maybe he's just bluffing, maybe he's not, but it doesn't really matter because technically you don't have a singer. You just have some guy taking up space and not contributing anything to the band. Maybe by you threatening to kick him out he'll see the light and start to do his homework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 29, 2009 Members Share Posted March 29, 2009 Maybe he's just bluffing, maybe he's not, but it doesn't really matter because technically you don't have a singer. You just have some guy taking up space and not contributing anything to the band. \nDING DING DING DING DING!! We have a winner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sex Panther Posted March 29, 2009 Members Share Posted March 29, 2009 Whenever I had to learn new songs for my old band, I'd learn the lyrics as well. That way if the singer showed up with a lyric sheet, I'd tell him to sit down, then we'd play the song without him, and I'd sing. Then I'd look at him and say, I learned the lead guitar part, and the lyrics...what's your excuse? That normally worked. 99% of singers are egomaniacs that don't wanna be outdone. All you have to do is learn how to be better than they are at their little games...and you'll be good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ibanezconvert Posted March 29, 2009 Members Share Posted March 29, 2009 Hey for what it's worth, we're maybe one of the more popular original bands in my area, and just under a week before we play our first headlining show, we are booting our front man for being lazy and disrespectful to all of us by skipping countless practices and never even calling. We will have to start all over from scratch - new name, new tunes, etc etc, cause the songs are just too much his persona and his lyrics. We have worked our asses off for a year and a half to get where we've gotten, and he shows up on show night and get's to take all that glory and act like King {censored}ing Rock Star. The dude doesn't even help us move our {censored} to and from the show like he's above it. Enough is enough, he's out and the band is done in it's current form. {censored} stupid front men that think they're {censored} doesn't stink. and if the dude says he's your friend but does that {censored} to ya, he's lying and you're a sucker. Boot him and move on if it's in ya to do so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mr3lions Posted March 29, 2009 Members Share Posted March 29, 2009 Used to be in a band with a guy like this. He didn't like doing the work he just liked telling girls he was in a band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stevesherbert Posted March 29, 2009 Members Share Posted March 29, 2009 sexpanther has it right. learn to sing the songs yourself. take the fate of your entire band out of the hands of the idiot singer and into your hands (and the rest of the musicians), where it belongs! i wouldn't say a thing to your current 'singer'. if he doesn't know the songs, sing them yourself at practice while he sits there like a tool. schedule gigs and invite him to WATCH you guys play. if he decides to get his act together, slowly integrate him into the band. if you find another singer, use that guy instead. don't play his game. DO be a band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 I hear you about lazy singers I have one to but it's not about learning lyrics and vocal parts because he does that fine. Problem we have with him is he doesn't help with setting up and tearing down the the PA and lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LightingPimp Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 I hear you about lazy singers I have one to but it's not about learning lyrics and vocal parts because he does that fine. Problem we have with him is he doesn't help with setting up and tearing down the the PA and lights. isnt that All lead singers duties ? our guy gets there normally 10-15 before the show starts ( me n the lead guitarist and drummer ) get to every show on average of 2 1/2 hrs before show time to start setup and he walks in grabs the mic .. but he sings so damn good ( and not to mention he would know what plugged in where or to hand us lol ) but he does make every practice and is a master of song picking and melody making of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MaxKincaide Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 Looks like you have a choice to make: Either you can remain friends with the guy, keep him in the band, and just accept the fact that you're never going to go anywhere with the current line up, or.... Kick him out of the band, worry about friendship on your own time, do what's best for the band, and start working on moving the band forward. If he's really your friend, the friendship can last through a disagreement over a band situation. If you don't think it can, then ask yourself 2 questions: 1. What kind of friend is he, really? 2. Why did I ask him to be in the band to begin with, knowing that 95% of all bands are going to collapse anyway? You can be in a band with friends. In fact, that's the preferred way to do things...who wants to play on stage and travel with a bunch of strangers??? But you need to understand that there is a certain line in a band where friendship meets business, and alot of the time the 2 don't mix. And it always comes down to 2 people thinking the same situation should play out the way THEY think it should work. If you know that the singer isn't going to be a good fit for the band, get another singer. If you know that this is going to continue to be a problem, get another singer. If you don't think that your friendship is going to last through a disagreement over roles in a band, find new friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B Money Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 went through this same problem a couple of years ago. The band wanted to keep learning new songs, and our lead singer basically refused to learn them, despite being given CD and several weeks to learn them. I was singing the songs in rehersal just to keep the band moving forward, and when gig time came and he still didn't know the songs, I performed them live. Pretty soon I was singing lots of songs in the set, and our lead singer sat them out. It was obvious that we really didnt need him, and he apparently didn't want to be there either. After one particularly bad night where he struggled to get through the second set, he left the gig early and never came back to the band. I've been lead singer ever since! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 I hear you about lazy singers I have one to but it's not about learning lyrics and vocal parts because he does that fine. Problem we have with him is he doesn't help with setting up and tearing down the the PA and lights. That's easy enough to fix - cut his gig pay until he starts helping out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bodyguard2112 Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 Sing them yourself. That's what we did. It sucks. But it's getting done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Singin' Dave Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 Lead singer, frontman and ham-fisted cowboy-chord rhythm guitarist chiming in to defend all those lead singers that actually understand they are part of a team and not the center of the universe. YES - we do exist!! Now that's not to say when I'm on stage, I'm not trying like hell to be the center of attention, but that does not absolve me from goals or duties of the group. I'm generally considered the band leader and as such write our music and lyrics, own and set up the PA (when needed, less so lately thankfully), book about half our gigs, maintain our website, suggest and learn new cover songs for the cover side of our gig, record all practices and distribute CDs etc., have my name on our rehearsal room lease and pay rent, collect money at all gigs, do set lists, and a whole lot of other stuff outside of singing into a mic. And I do it because I enjoy it! My band gets long great, everyone pitches in, and we strive to improve every week. Sounds like your buddy has other interests or priorities, or thinks pure talent is better then working at things. Shame. It's obviously time for you to sit down withhim and lay it all out. Try not to point the finger right away. Tell him you think he really can sing, but that the band is being held up by his inability to commit to the work you need to get better. You respect him and his freindship, but the fact is you are not seeing any respect in return for your goals and work and that either changes or you need to find others to play with that will. Hope it works out for ya man. And no, I can't join another project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 Used to be in a band with a guy like this. He didn't like doing the work he just liked telling girls he was in a band. Another winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 That's easy enough to fix - cut his gig pay until he starts helping out. Yea that sounds easy but when you live in a small town with a limited availability of talented singers and that are a real front man. I think we decided that was a small sacrifice to make because he is the best singer we found after 3 years going thru singers after singers. Yea I know it's a {censored}ed up substitution to be in, but it's either continue going thru singers that are so so or use the best singer and town make money have fun and have steady gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keevun Posted March 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 Well, I talked to the singer today. It went kinda well. I just told him to learn a few songs or he was out of the band. He appologized for not knowing the songs and said after seeing how committed the rest of us were, he was ashamed for being so lazy. He came through in the end! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Singin' Dave Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 Well, I talked to the singer today. It went kinda well. I just told him to learn a few songs or he was out of the band. He appologized for not knowing the songs and said after seeing how committed the rest of us were, he was ashamed for being so lazy. He came through in the end! Well, good on him for taking some accountability. He's now at least opened the door to be approached about it should he fall into old habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted March 30, 2009 Members Share Posted March 30, 2009 Yea that sounds easy but when you live in a small town with a limited availability of talented singers and that are a real front man. I think we decided that was a small sacrifice to make because he is the best singer we found after 3 years going thru singers after singers. Yea I know it's a {censored}ed up substitution to be in, but it's either continue going thru singers that are so so or use the best singer and town make money have fun and have steady gigs. So what does he do when you walk up to him and hand him a main, or say "give me a hand with this amp rack"? Just curious..... Like Billy Joel said: "if you can't drive with a broken back, at least you can polish the fenders". Meaning it's all good until one of you all tries to move an amp rack by yourself that's a 2 man job and something in your back goes POP. The amp rack I'm using definitely requires 2 people to move it without risk of injury..... Would he quit if you docked his gig pay for moving expenses? Where would he go then - back to the basement? You all have gigs lined up - that's worth something, and he knows it. Get him to help you out man, before one of y'all gets hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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