Members Gary in NJ Posted April 9, 2009 Members Share Posted April 9, 2009 Last summer our female co-singer moved to FL. The only criticism one could ever throw her way was a lack of stage presence. She knew it, and worked to improve it. So when we replaced her we decided that the first quality we would look for in her replacement would be someone with great stage presence. Someone who could bring the party. And we found a singer that had that in spades. Her stage presence was so good in fact, that we never noticed during the audition process that she couldn't sing. Soon after joining I realized there was a problem and starting working with her one-on-one to improve her singing. I contributed her frequent departures from the correct key as nerves, or lack of familiarity with the song. I was sure it would get better. We started gigging with her in September. Everyone who came out to hear our new singer thought she was great; just loved her stage presence. By now I was fully aware that she was in fact tone deaf, but thought "hey if they don't notice, all is good". And it was good, until one-by-one they started to listen. And the feedback wasn't pretty. After the holidays we found it difficult to book gigs. In fact, the only gigs we have booked are gigs that she has booked. At first no one in the band wanted to make a change thinking "as long as people are dancing, who cares". I don't want to be fussy, but the quality of our music matters to me, probably more then anything. So this week I pressed the issue with the band members and they finally relented, and agreed that it was time to make a change. Well, since I started this, it looks like I have to finish it. After all, I blame myself for getting this far down the road; hoping her tone-deafness would go away or improve. Normally, I would wait until I had a replacement in hand, ready to gig. But we have gigs booked, and I'm embarrassed by her singing. Then again, they are all of the gigs she had booked. I think at some level she knows there is problem, because she is frantically trying to book gigs through the rest of the year. I have to put a stop to this. Here is my dilemma: do I tell her now and risk her wanting to finish out the gigs she has booked? Do I tell her there is no going forward and we'll do the gigs (her gigs) without her? Do I just cancel the gigs? As the co-frontman, I know we can add songs to fill out our set list. Our drummer and bass player are good singers too, and I'd like them to take on more singing anyway. I have no problem telling her the truth, while at the same time protecting her feelings. I just can't sing with her anymore. BTW, it's worth noting, she is a super nice person, and has become friends with all of us. But she can't sing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Austincowbell Posted April 9, 2009 Members Share Posted April 9, 2009 come on... you already know the answer to this question. In a band, ESPECIALLY a cover band, you are as good as your singer. Your singer can't sing. If you want to continue associating your band name with her that is clearly within your rights but know that people will most likely associate that singer with you for YEARS. There was a thread earlier about a guy who fired his singer and for 3 years had clubs turning him down because her stigma lingered. Be smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members callous Posted April 9, 2009 Members Share Posted April 9, 2009 The real issue is how to approach the upcoming gigs. I would give her the option to finish out gigs she has booked, while the band auditions a replacement. Allow her to walk away if that is her choice. I think you should attempt to play the booked gigs, if possible, with or without her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted April 9, 2009 Moderators Share Posted April 9, 2009 Why don't you at least try to get her to take lessons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Janx Posted April 9, 2009 Members Share Posted April 9, 2009 well, it sounds like you gave "trying to fix it" an honest try. Actionsquid's right that "she should take lessons", but I'm assuming you already had that idea, and it wasn't feasible to get professional lessons for her. Since fixing it didn't work (and I will assume you did your best, and it wasn't half-assed), you gotta move her out of the job she's not good at. That means give her a job she is good at, or dismiss her. I think you already knew that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gtrjones Posted April 9, 2009 Members Share Posted April 9, 2009 No. You tell her right away, she is gone. Period. Then you call the clubs she has booked, tell them the deal (she's gone), and that you are more than willing to play the gigs, but that it's up to the club to decide whether y'all still play. If they hired 'her' she won't be there. If they hired a good band, you will be there, ready to play, without her. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sflight Posted April 9, 2009 Members Share Posted April 9, 2009 As a band, sit her down and be honest with her and if you have to cancel the gigs, cancel them. You do not want do do those gigs and keep dragging your band reputation through the mud. You will lose fans. As a cover band, you can't afford to lose fans. I recently went through the same deal. DO NOT PROLONG THE PROBLEM!! The new singer we got can sing his ass off and has phenominal stage presence. There out there, you just have to look. It took me 2 years to find one. Good Luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crownman Posted April 9, 2009 Members Share Posted April 9, 2009 Have her do the gig topless and no one will care how bad it is. Seriously though, tell her now and cancel the gigs if need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary in NJ Posted April 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 9, 2009 No. You tell her right away, she is gone. Period.Then you call the clubs she has booked, tell them the deal (she's gone), and that you are more than willing to play the gigs, but that it's up to the club to decide whether y'all still play. If they hired 'her' she won't be there. If they hired a good band, you will be there, ready to play, without her.Done. This seems to be the correct way to proceed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted April 9, 2009 Members Share Posted April 9, 2009 It sucks but you gotta do what ya gotta do. If the band is all in favor of this. Tell her goodbye. we had a similar problem, and I think we were who the above poster was talking about. We still can't book a certain bar in our area because they hated our female vocalist. Even though she's been gone for years! We are not even a female fronted band anymore!!! So say goodvye to her before you do damage. And if the damage is done change your band's name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amoodymule Posted April 9, 2009 Members Share Posted April 9, 2009 ...we got a bassist who's stage presence is cool, but his musicianship and style just isn't fittin' right and peoples is noticing :poke: nice enough guy, but our drummer needs more of a bassist than a showman :blah: ...here we go again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JBJ Posted April 9, 2009 Members Share Posted April 9, 2009 stage presence will get you out of a lot of things but it only goes so far. you can run around like jagger but if you really can't sing even your average drunk bar person will notice (even if they don't catch exactly what it is that is wrong) you got to ditch her and try and find a new singer that brings a little of both to the table. the best frontman i know personally has a reasonably good voice but has great stage presence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted April 9, 2009 Members Share Posted April 9, 2009 No. You tell her right away, she is gone. Period.Then you call the clubs she has booked, tell them the deal (she's gone), and that you are more than willing to play the gigs, but that it's up to the club to decide whether y'all still play. If they hired 'her' she won't be there. If they hired a good band, you will be there, ready to play, without her.Done. I would let her go. I would just cancel the gigs until you tool back up. When you show back up you wanna have your act totally together. You dont want to be the band that had the crappy singer than shows back up limping along short a singer and still no good vocals. I cant imagine not noticing this at her audition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dk123123dk Posted April 9, 2009 Members Share Posted April 9, 2009 How hot is she? Have you tried "studio magic"? dk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bodyguard2112 Posted April 10, 2009 Members Share Posted April 10, 2009 Stage presence. Good. Are you SURE you can't train her??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boomboomdrums Posted April 10, 2009 Members Share Posted April 10, 2009 The show must go on. Do not cancel any gigs. Finding gigs is not easy and time consuming work. If she found you gigs, you need to have the decency to do those gigs with her. Fair is fair. How would you feel if you booked a gig and then your band fired you and did your gig? Think of the bad word and karma and mojo associated with that kind of thing. I can see postings on craigslist about what a$$holes you are. Not to mention her telling every club owner in town and all her friends how lame you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GoodDogYall Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 The show must go on. Do not cancel any gigs. Finding gigs is not easy and time consuming work. If she found you gigs, you need to have the decency to do those gigs with her. +1 IMO You should tell her right away so she'll stop booking more gigs, and play the gigs she's booked. It will give you time to look for someone else - a band with gigs is way more desirable than a band with none. Also if she really wants to stay with the band it will give her a last chance to improve if possible. Of course, if she booked the gigs, upon knowing her fate, she might just hire a new band for them! Best of luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Consume Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 Last summer our female co-singer moved to FL. The only criticism one could ever throw her way was a lack of stage presence. She knew it, and worked to improve it. So when we replaced her we decided that the first quality we would look for in her replacement would be someone with great stage presence. Someone who could bring the party. And we found a singer that had that in spades. Her stage presence was so good in fact, that we never noticed during the audition process that she couldn't sing. Soon after joining I realized there was a problem and starting working with her one-on-one to improve her singing. I contributed her frequent departures from the correct key as nerves, or lack of familiarity with the song. I was sure it would get better.We started gigging with her in September. Everyone who came out to hear our new singer thought she was great; just loved her stage presence. By now I was fully aware that she was in fact tone deaf, but thought "hey if they don't notice, all is good". And it was good, until one-by-one they started to listen. And the feedback wasn't pretty. After the holidays we found it difficult to book gigs. In fact, the only gigs we have booked are gigs that she has booked.At first no one in the band wanted to make a change thinking "as long as people are dancing, who cares". I don't want to be fussy, but the quality of our music matters to me, probably more then anything. So this week I pressed the issue with the band members and they finally relented, and agreed that it was time to make a change.Well, since I started this, it looks like I have to finish it. After all, I blame myself for getting this far down the road; hoping her tone-deafness would go away or improve.Normally, I would wait until I had a replacement in hand, ready to gig. But we have gigs booked, and I'm embarrassed by her singing. Then again, they are all of the gigs she had booked. I think at some level she knows there is problem, because she is frantically trying to book gigs through the rest of the year. I have to put a stop to this. Here is my dilemma: do I tell her now and risk her wanting to finish out the gigs she has booked? Do I tell her there is no going forward and we'll do the gigs (her gigs) without her? Do I just cancel the gigs? As the co-frontman, I know we can add songs to fill out our set list. Our drummer and bass player are good singers too, and I'd like them to take on more singing anyway. I have no problem telling her the truth, while at the same time protecting her feelings. I just can't sing with her anymore. BTW, it's worth noting, she is a super nice person, and has become friends with all of us. But she can't sing. Do the gigs she booked and, in the meantime, contact the club owners or whoever handles the booking at the clubs where you aren't being booked and ask them point blank if it is because of your singer's voice. This is a BUSINESS. Tell them straight up, you have heard from a few people regarding the singer, and simply ask them. Then if any of them say yes it is about the singer, then you call a band meeting, including her, and discuss it with her. There are such a small number of people in the world who are really tone deaf that it isn't funny. The reality is, 99% of the people called "tone deaf" aren't at all, since tone deafness has to do with, well - being deaf! People who are tone deaf literally can't hear as well and it is normally due to either an injury or a infection/fever when very young. Most people who are allegedly "tone deaf" can hear just fine, they just can't sing! A good dose of private vocal training with a good voice instructor can fix that problem in a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Consume Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 Stage presence. Good.Are you SURE you can't train her??? My thinking exactly. She's not tone deaf, she just needs some private vocal lessons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted April 14, 2009 Members Share Posted April 14, 2009 I had to fire a singer once who appeared to be tone deaf. She was great in the audition but couldn't cut it on stage. I later heard she was doing a whole bunch of studio work, jingles, records etc. It seems she wasn't tone deaf, she just couldn't hear herself in a rock band situation. So... have you tired IEM's, better monitors and so on. It might actually be a physical problem. My current singers seem to be deaf, and they can't sing unless their monitors are painfully loud. If the monitors are screamin', then the singers are in tune, but if the monitors are a little quiet, then they're way off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Consume Posted April 14, 2009 Members Share Posted April 14, 2009 I had to fire a singer once who appeared to be tone deaf. She was great in the audition but couldn't cut it on stage. I later heard she was doing a whole bunch of studio work, jingles, records etc. It seems she wasn't tone deaf, she just couldn't hear herself in a rock band situation.So... have you tired IEM's, better monitors and so on. It might actually be a physical problem.My current singers seem to be deaf, and they can't sing unless their monitors are painfully loud. If the monitors are screamin', then the singers are in tune, but if the monitors are a little quiet, then they're way off! Do they need to hear themselves, or the music? If they need to hear themselves, then they need to each buy a VAM, which is the "Vocal Acoustic Monitor"; it attaches to a microphone, and scoops back toward your ear - sending your unamplified voice back, just like cupping your ear when singing. It's an incredible device. http://www.vamacoustics.com/vamhome.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted April 16, 2009 Members Share Posted April 16, 2009 Do they need to hear themselves, or the music?If they need to hear themselves, then they need to each buy a VAM, which is the "Vocal Acoustic Monitor"; it attaches to a microphone, and scoops back toward your ear - sending your unamplified voice back, just like cupping your ear when singing. It's an incredible device.http://www.vamacoustics.com/vamhome.html Kind of like the old plexiglass around the trumpet player's mic:) I kind of think that most singers that are really having issues with monitors will probably get IEMs at some point. I personally don't use them but the folks I know that do, love 'em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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