OT Bin Laden is dead.

[modulusman]

It is being reported than Bin Laden was killed. The president is to speak shortly.

[wheresgrant3]

Just to get this off my chest... as someone who witnessed Flight 11 pass over Madison Ave. on it's way to the WTC (and the resulting chaos that ensued in NYC that day) I applaud the men and women of our armed services, the intelligence community and the efforts of two presidents to make this day finally come. As Mark Twain once said: "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with a lot of pleasure."

[BigMac5]

[P. Wallace]

Praise be to Allah!

[theGman]

The coward has been in hiding so long, I thought he had died years ago.

[BigMac5]

USAMA BIN LADEN

[lsits]

He died of lead poisoning.

[mstreck]

He died of lead poisoning.

 

[StratGuy22]

who?

 

[Kramerguy]

let's face it though: Our re-action broke more international laws and killed far more innocents than his original action. A shallow victory, if one at all.

[kmart]

 

let's face it though: Our re-action broke more international laws and killed far more innocents than his original action. A shallow victory, if one at all.

 

 

Perhaps, however let's all make sure we're talking about the same guy from the same perspective: Osama Bin Laden was ID'd as being behind/responsible for a whole lot more than just 9/11 (And please don't take it to mean I'm belittling 9/11 at all). If you look at all the OTHER attacks he led against the US, both here and abroad, the tally keeps adding up.

 

What was shallow about it to me is that at this point, OBL was likely not all that important to the day-to-day operations of Al Qiada at all.

[Kramerguy]

My point was that our response, most particularly to 911, was (overall) more inhumane than the offense we responded to. End result is u.s. Citizens having no real freedoms anymore.. Living in fear of terrorists, child molesters, Identity theft, looming defects, middle class degradation.. You name it.. Every fear adds more rights and freedoms lost. The terrorists won years ago. We stooped to their level and justified it (killing innocent women and children via "collateral damage").

[kmart]

So you're saying that the US's response to 9/11 caused, or at the very least, had a significant impact on all of this...

 

Living in fear of terrorists, child molesters, Identity theft, looming defects, middle class degradation..

 

???

 

To start with, I don't see the connection to a bunch of that list. Certainly all of it existed long before the attacks, and IMO, most of the items you listed weren't impacted by them one way or another.

Seriously: child molesters? What does that have to do with 9/11 & the US's response?

Maybe I'm mis-understanding what you're saying completely there...?

 

In any case, if the US had NOT responded to the WTC attacks in the way they did, do you think the average US citizen would be living in MORE or LESS fear of terrorists right now?

It's pure speculation, of course, but to not respond with force could esaily have been seen as a sign of weakness, and opened up the flood gates of increased attacks.

Personally, while I disagree a good deal with WHERE we put our efforts (i.e., Sadaam), I think any response the US had necessarily had to be of the general level it was; otherwise we would absolutely have seen an increase in the frequency and level of future attacks.

 

I guess at the end of it all, I just don't agree that the reaction from the US necessarily had to be somehow 'more humane' than what was done to us. IMO, that just leads to a lot of back-and-forth and a stalemate between both sides.

Then again, I do believe in the "Chicago way""

They bring a knife; you bring a gun / they send one of your guys to the hospital; you send one of theirs to the morgue.

[jwlussow]

 

... Then again, I do believe in the "Chicago way"" They bring a knife; you bring a gun / they send one of your guys to the hospital; you send one of theirs to the morgue.

 

 

I actually got married in that church. It was Our Lady of Sorrows at Jackson & Albany. My wife's mother grew up in that neighborhood.

[kmart]

Funny.

My brother got married next to, and then had his reception actually in the room where Capone (Deniro) waxes poetic about 'enthusiasms', and then shows how to really use a baseball bat.

[jwlussow]

 

Funny. My brother got married next to, and then had his reception actually in the room where Capone (Deniro) waxes poetic about 'enthusiasms', and then shows how to really use a baseball bat.

 

 

Was that the Grand Ballroom at the Hilton or the Palmer House. I've been at receptions at both and don't remember which one it was filmed at. I do know I always seemed to end up at Miller's, though.

[kmart]

Neither: it's at the Blackstone.

[Kramerguy]

I was going to lay out a lot of counter arguments, but it's not going to change anyones minds anyways, so yeah.. Go team USA.. we sure kicked his ass, only took $1999484726374837363 and 10 years

[SpaceNorman]

A guy walks into a bar .... looks at the bar tender and says "gimme a Bin Laden". Bartender say "A Bin Laden? Whatsa Bin Laden".

 

"Two shots and a splash of water...."

[jwlussow]

A guy walks into a bar .... looks at the bar tender and says "gimme a Bin Laden". Bartender say "A Bin Laden? Whatsa Bin Laden". "Two shots and a splash of water...."

 

 

[jwlussow]

I was going to lay out a lot of counter arguments, but it's not going to change anyones minds anyways, so yeah.. Go team USA.. we sure kicked his ass, only took $1999484726374837363 and 10 years

 

It's done. Get over it. This country has been doing the same thing for centuries and people act like they just stole your last piece of bread. Bin Laden is deservedly dead. Do you really miss him or is it just the "in" thing to argue about now? Why not just ask if the birth certificate is fake? Why aren't people upset at all the innocent Japanese that were killed by the atomic bombs? How much did it cost to support that action? Bin Laden freely admitted that the New York attack was his idea. Now he is dead. The world is safer because of it. It cost a ridiculous amount in money and lives and we all get it. He was a mass murderer and justice was served. Period. More people died in New York on 9/11 then died in Pearl Harbor. Would it have been better to just have said that defending the little Pacific Island would be too expensive so we should just allow anyone to come here and do what they want? His death was well worth the information that was discovered at the compound. Personally, I expect a lot of people to start disappearing or winding up dead. The list of terrorists alone will probably keep the SEALS busy for years. I'll bet many terrorists are in hiding now just because they think their names were discovered.

 

I really believe all these "Birthers" and "Deathers" should just put on their white robes and hoods and stop their childish whining.

[pickinatit]

 

My point was that our response, most particularly to 911, was (overall) more inhumane than the offense we responded to. End result is u.s. Citizens having no real freedoms anymore.. Living in fear of terrorists, child molesters, Identity theft, looming defects, middle class degradation.. You name it.. Every fear adds more rights and freedoms lost. The terrorists won years ago. We stooped to their level and justified it (killing innocent women and children via "collateral damage").

 

 

:facepalm:What a pure load of over-the-top hyperbole!!

[pickinatit]

I was going to lay out a lot of counter arguments, but it's not going to change anyones minds anyways, so yeah.. Go team USA.. we sure kicked his ass, only took $1999484726374837363 and 10 years

 

The money spent was for much, much more then getting Bin Laden. Getting him wasn't even all that important in the over-all picture of things. Eliminating Afghanistan as a haven for terrorists and their training camps then, now and in the future was what the expenditure for THAT war was mostly about.

I think it's time we got out now, but I thought that before we got Bin Laden. But, when we do get out,we should make it clear to the Karzi govt. and to the Taliban that regardless of who ends up in power there, we are going to be watching and each and any sign that terrorists are sheltered there or training there we are going to rain destruction from the sky or special ops an end to it. This winning the hearts and minds is a load of crap. The approach should be simply that if you help the Taliban or Al Kaida your tribe will soon be extinct.

[MartinC]

+1000

It's done. Get over it. This country has been doing the same thing for centuries and people act like they just stole your last piece of bread. Bin Laden is deservedly dead. Do you really miss him or is it just the "in" thing to argue about now? Why not just ask if the birth certificate is fake? Why aren't people upset at all the innocent Japanese that were killed by the atomic bombs? How much did it cost to support that action? Bin Laden freely admitted that the New York attack was his idea. Now he is dead. The world is safer because of it. It cost a ridiculous amount in money and lives and we all get it. He was a mass murderer and justice was served. Period. More people died in New York on 9/11 then died in Pearl Harbor. Would it have been better to just have said that defending the little Pacific Island would be too expensive so we should just allow anyone to come here and do what they want? His death was well worth the information that was discovered at the compound. Personally, I expect a lot of people to start disappearing or winding up dead. The list of terrorists alone will probably keep the SEALS busy for years. I'll bet many terrorists are in hiding now just because they think their names were discovered. I really believe all these "Birthers" and "Deathers" should just put on their white robes and hoods and stop their childish whining.

 

[Kramerguy]

I don't give a crap about a birth certificate. You clearly took me for one of those fruit bags that just trashes the ppl in charge, when in fact my anger towards the situation is based on the simple factors:

 

We invaded 2.5 countries, displaced millions, killed hundreds of thousands... And go check the facts if you want but I think the official tally is for every 10 people we kill, ONE might be a terrorist. Imagine if the arrest rate for drugs here was the same on innocents vs guilty. We justify all that carnage for what? Retaliation. Plain and simple. We wrapped that {censored} all up in patriotism and glory, but that only makes everyone dumb hypocrites. Plain and simple, we reacted exactly the way he wanted, looking like retards in the process.

 

So yeah the guy is a piece of {censored} who deserved to die.. I don't think I argued anything against that. My argument is that we payed far far more than it would ever be worth. And now what.. Another promise of attack to avenge his death.. Right back to square one. A zillion dollars later, and even more american lives lost than in 9-11 now lost in battle.

 

But for all that, the silly notion that we pretend this is anything but revenge just makes me feel embarrassed and ashamed at our idiocy.

 

And yes, I'm against war. Yes it's a necessary evil, but not against a group o sand smothers in the middle of a desert.

 

As far as freedoms go, when you can honestly argue that you can't possibly be black bagged, taken to a detention camp, having no rights to a lawyer, or anyone ever knowing what happened to you (aka patriot act) .. Then i will concede.. But that's not the case, is it?

 

So did I change your mind? Nope. Will you change mine? Nope.

 

Pointless to argue.