Singer Needs Some Sage Advice (Vocal Demos)

[CleveRocks]

I really hate to do this, because I feel like it doesn't fit with the intent of the forum, but I'd like to ask for some feedback on my vocal demos. (Since my goal is to sing for a band, it seems logical to ask players and not just singers...you're the ones whose opinions count most). I've posted here before and gotten good feedback (usually along the lines of, "get some voice lessons NOW"), which I really appreciated. I've also PMd a few of you and that's helped a lot too. I feel like I've made good progress since I last posted, and in that time I've also had a few flings with bands.

 

I've learned not to trust my own judgment, although I've become better at self-evaluating too (my ear for pitch having improved, etc). My dilemma right now is whether to continue to focus on refining my voice and my demos, or start marketing myself to bands. First impressions being what they are, I'd rather not blow too many by putting out a sub-standard product (as I have in the past). But at some point, they're good enough, and getting them out there is more important than fixing a few loose ends.

 

So, what do you think, will these get serious consideration by serious bands looking for singers? What would make them better, or what are the red flags that might cause bands to pass? One thing I've been told (more than once) is that I have sort of a "punk" sound to my voice, and if that's true I want to downplay it. Where I live (southwest Ohio), it is not what most bar-goers are expecting to hear.

 

Once again I REALLY appreciate whoever takes the time to listen, and offer some advice. If there was a way to pay for it I would, because it is that valuable to me!

 

www.bandmix.com/singer211

[Vito Corleone]

Well, let me start by saying it's better than what I remember you posting before. I can tell you've been working on it and improving.

 

But what I hear is somebody who is both trying too hard --- does it make sense to say it sounds to me like you're listening to yourself instead of just singing? -- and still has some issues with pitch.

 

There IS a punk quality to your voice and that is one of the better qualities about it. To my ear that stems from the fact that you have a general tone that was common a lot of early punk vocalists, and you don't use much vibrato which is very common to that style of singing also.

 

As far as serious consideration from serious bands? I think that really depends on what type of bands they are. And maybe what else you are bringing to the table. What is your look and stage presence like? An average singer who is a really dynamic on stage and draws peoples attention is probably going to be able to find a good band to sing with.

 

In my frank opinion, you still need some work. Although I really admire your dedication and desire. I might suggest rather than trying to get your demo down perfectly, to have some more flings with bands. Even if they aren't very good---just get out there and do it. Nothing will make you a better singer than singing a lot. And you're probably going to need some good frontman skills because your voice is probably never going to be outstanding. But the more you work and the more you're out there doing it, the better you'll get and the more you'll know what's the best stuff for you to sing and not sing.

[flanc]

I agree with Guido but did not hear your previous efforts. It was not bad but there were some pitch problems and your delivery sounded rather "shouty"..if that's a word. It seemed like your your timing was off at times as well. Is you goal to be a lead singer? If so, I'd say you have a ways to go to get there but agree again with Guido that practice does help and putting in work is the only way to improve.

[benzem]

I think it sounded pretty good. That's a challenging song.

 

"Is it good enough to attract serious bands", probably not yet.

 

But it's certainly good enough to get in a band. Just find the right guys...they're out there, maybe you're shooting too high. You gotta pay your dues. If you get with a busy local cover band you will get valuable gig exp., and improve FAST! Then, you will have your choice of bands, trust me!

 

Good luck and report back.

 

[rog951]

Honestly, the demos aren't that bad. Obviously, there are spots where the pitch isn't perfect, but I've heard a LOT worse (and have played with many of them!). I think the tonal quality of your voice is totally fine, or at least it will be with a little more experience and/or training. Sure, there's a bit of "monotone" there at times, especially on the louder bits, but you'll figure out how to tame that over time, and working on your vibrato will really help knock that back.

 

The biggest, most pressing issue I'm hearing is timing. It seems like you're rushing a lot of the lyrics. So, I'd suggest you pay a lot of attention to the drums and maybe try counting a bit, or tapping your foot if you aren't already. Even try to force yourself to lag a bit behind the beat if you can. If you play around with it, you'll find that rushing/lagging the lyrical delivery will change the mood of the song...the mood you're currently conveying is "I want to get this song over with!" Nothing that can't be fixed.

 

No reason why you can't be playing in a band right now, in my opinion, and doing that is exactly what will help you progress. Your vocal track seems largely dry (not much reverb or delay, if any) and is very high in the mix. I think that's a good way to supply a vocal demo for an experienced vocalist, but it will obviously accentuate the imperfections in a performance. If you're offering up these demos to prospective bandmembers, you might be better served to lower the vocal a tad and maybe add a splash of reverb to the track to help the vocal blend better and sound more a part of the song. I dunno, maybe that's bad advice. Could it be considered a crutch? Yes, but if the objective is to join a band, then job #1 should be to get it to sound its best.

 

Good luck, and good on you for having the balls to put yourself out there for the criticism.

[scr@tchy]

Hey man, you are getting pretty damn close, there is some slight pitchiness but there are some great notes too. I agree with what some have already said, getting into a band situation of some sort is going to straighten out a lot of your curves. I don't know how long you've been working hard with this, but if you can throw in with a teacher at this point it may get you over the hump really quickly because of how far you are already.

 

How are you recording these? Are you able to go back and fix mistakes? If so, something that helped me immensely as a singer is to record with the intent of getting every mistake fixed. Including anything that I didn't like the way it came out/was pronounced/timing - even if the note was good. Or even just parts you think you could do better. Doing this got me to practice certain sections over and over and when I was done I had tried a lot of different approaches which helped me to really get down to what works for my voice and how to get the best out of it. And what it feels like to be doing the best, what things feel like to a singer is our whole world. By the way, I'm in Cinci so howdy neighbor.

[twostone]

 

but if you can throw in with a teacher at this point it may get you over the hump really quickly because of how far you are already.

 

 

Great advice because a vocal coach can critique your progress unlike books and video's can't,

so a vocal coach can strengthen your weakness and definitely step up your singing skills.

[CleveRocks]

 

Hey man, you are getting pretty damn close, there is some slight pitchiness but there are some great notes too. I agree with what some have already said, getting into a band situation of some sort is going to straighten out a lot of your curves. I don't know how long you've been working hard with this, but if you can throw in with a teacher at this point it may get you over the hump really quickly because of how far you are already. How are you recording these? Are you able to go back and fix mistakes? If so, something that helped me immensely as a singer is to record with the intent of getting every mistake fixed. Including anything that I didn't like the way it came out/was pronounced/timing - even if the note was good. Or even just parts you think you could do better. Doing this got me to practice certain sections over and over and when I was done I had tried a lot of different approaches which helped me to really get down to what works for my voice and how to get the best out of it. And what it feels like to be doing the best, what things feel like to a singer is our whole world. By the way, I'm in Cinci so howdy neighbor.

 

 

 

Damn I didn't want anyone from around here to hear these! Just kidding, howdy scr@tchy, and thanks to all you guys who critiqued. [ I took the demos down only because I plan on improving them soon (and in fact already have). ]

 

This helps a TON, because now I have an idea where I stand on the spectrum, but more importantly I have several specific areas to focus on, and tips for making the overall sound better. So instead of pouting about not getting responses to my demos, I can apply my energies more constructively. What I quoted here is exactly what I plan to do (and have already done, and will keep doing), as long as my ZOOM MRS-4 holds out.

 

Also, it's great to know that there is nothing inherently off-putting about the sound of my voice...everything seems fixable. Voice coach... yeah I have had 3 and all 3 I have had personality issues with... it is hard to find a good one around here, but maybe time to try again. And good advice about getting back with a band too.... as I found there are a lot of other issues to deal with there, that I need more experience with.

 

Thanks again BWTB!

[jwlussow]

HUGE improvement. Keep up the good work. I believe there are retro bands out there where you would be a great front man. Still a little pitchy in spots but I think it might be due to over singing.

[CleveRocks]

Thanks JW, that is great to hear. I know what you mean by over-singing , too.

 

Here are the demos in a different location, in case anyone else wants to hear or critique. I appreciate it.

 

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/57013244/Hemorrhage.mp3

 

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/57013244/Holiday.mp3

 

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/57013244/Surrender.mp3

[rangefinder]

 

The biggest, most pressing issue I'm hearing is timing. It seems like you're rushing a lot of the lyrics.

 

 

+1 on this issue, especially on the first verse of "Surrender" where you are WAY off the beat, at least to my ears. You can work to improve various other issues, but you GOTTA stay in the "pocket" in a working band. In my opinion, anyway.

 

Otherwise, +1 to a BIG improvement overall, and +1 to the areas for additional improvement that others raise.

 

And it's nice to see that you're still working on your singing!

[GCDEF]

To me, the punk quality to your voice works well in things like hemorrhage, and there are bands out there, at least around here, where that sound would be a good fit for what you do. On the other hand, most cover bands are probably going to want a voice that's a little more versatile or polished. Now that you're getting better you're at the point where there are songs you can pull off, but I don't really hear a ballad working yet, for example. If you're performing, you're really going to need to know how to trust your own judgement. If you're off, you'll need to recognize it and know what to do to fix it on the fly.

 

At this point, assuming you can sound like your recordings when you're on a stage, there's a niche out there for you. You just need to find the right people and pick your songs carefully. Hit as many open mics as you can, or even karaoke, to get the hang of doing it without a net.

[scr@tchy]

 

This helps a TON, because now I have an idea where I stand on the spectrum, but more importantly I have several specific areas to focus on, and tips for making the overall sound better. So instead of pouting about not getting responses to my demos, I can apply my energies more constructively. What I quoted here is exactly what I plan to do (and have already done, and will keep doing), as long as my ZOOM MRS-4 holds out. Also, it's great to know that there is nothing inherently off-putting about the sound of my voice...everything seems fixable. Voice coach... yeah I have had 3 and all 3 I have had personality issues with... it is hard to find a good one around here, but maybe time to try again. And good advice about getting back with a band too.... as I found there are a lot of other issues to deal with there, that I need more experience with. Thanks again BWTB!

 

 

Hey I won't tell anyone (contacts City Beat paper with the links)

 

Another thing to keep in mind for when you start singing with bands is bad vocal monitors. You will want to keep a very close guard of how loud you are singing at rehearsal and live because the less you hear of yourself the more you will want to yell which is a great way to lose your voice. It is how I got a scratchy sounding voice. Now I am very aware of my technique and overall volume, at rehearsal I used to turn my monitor down so I could be prepared if we play a show where the monitors suck. I practiced not being able to hear myself very well and fighting the urge to sing louder to compensate, I recorded every rehearsal so I knew how it sounded coming out the mains until I borke myself of the habit of yelling. It really helped me save my voice, well, what is left of it... I saved 'a' voice!

[SLScott86]

Listening to Hemorrhage, there was some pitch stuff, but frankly if you're in a loud rock band setting I'd say the pitch was "good enough."

 

My bigger concerns were in the tempo department, getting a bit ahead of the tracks, and maybe the "feel." You sound a little tight, particularly toward the beginning.

 

I can't stress enough to new rock singers, do your work in privacy. Drill it and drill it. And when you have to perform, remember how hard you've worked, and forget it all, and just sing. Put yourself in the song. Forget the technique. If you've worked hard enough, it should come naturally. Be you.

 

That seems like a bunch of Zen-speak without substance, but nothing helps more than confidence in my experience.