Cheesy Backing Tracks and PA System Dynamic Range

[Notes_Norton]

All in all, backing tracks or not, karaoke or not, clothing or not, do what works for you. If you are gigging, and the audience is digging it, it's good.

 

You can play for yourself, you can play for other musicians, or you can play for the general public. If you are doing it well enough, you will get the audience you asked for.

[stunningbabe]

 

My oh my. I did a gig at a nudist place not long ago. I did not strip all the way down, though, because my wife informed me that I'd better not even consider it. I respected her wishes. It went OK. People danced, I got paid. It was a little weird, though. It was like the Clint Eastwood movie - The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. Let's leave it at that. Regarding the thread... I think that performers ought to do everything they can to make a great show. If you HAVE to use backing tracks, then they ought to sound as good as possible. I've said this a kabillion times, but it's all in the low end. If you can make your kick drum sound great, you've got something. If not, then it sounds like you're playing along with a CD player. The low end is the energy. You either need 15's sitting on the floor, or you need a sub. IMHO.

 

 

YOu do have a good Point. When the Kick drum sounds full and solid...it changes EVERYTHING for the better.

[heath_eld]

We were using tracks at church a few weeks ago (now that, is ugh... but there were some people away, we just use them on fast songs). Anyway, can't remember how it happened, i think i didnt know there were going to be tracks, (i am acoustic guitarist and co-in charge of the sound set up) and i didnt bring a sub... so there was just my EV ELX 112p speakers and no subs, and it just had the feeling you are describing: Bass and kick drum sounded weak and the whole system sounded strained (even though there were no clip lights or similar). Very much confirms what you're saying - you need headroom, and also, that subs become very important for tracks.

[six20aus]

I saw a duo on fri night while I was out having a nice dinner with the wife and I personally disliked their backing tracks.

 

1. Overly produced and mixed

2. Backing vocals on the track

3. Guitars on the track

 

The females singer and male keyboard player in the duo could have stopped playing and you'd barely notice the difference.

 

Did the crowd notice...nope...I asked my wife what she thought of the backing vocals and she didnt even notice til I pointed it out.

 

I've made the point before - non musos just don't notice the details we notice.

 

They were playing in a small bar with maybe 30ppls in the room using Mackie SRM450s with no subs and whilst they had a fair amount of bass without sub it just sounded 'messy' to me which was surprising given how produced the backing tracks were. Didn't sound like a band but ppls still danced and they were a good act overall.

 

Cheese and backing track quality is very subjective...

[stunningbabe]

 

I saw a duo on fri night while I was out having a nice dinner with the wife and I personally disliked their backing tracks. 1. Overly produced and mixed 2. Backing vocals on the track 3. Guitars on the track The females singer and male keyboard player in the duo could have stopped playing and you'd barely notice the difference. Did the crowd notice...nope...I asked my wife what she thought of the backing vocals and she didnt even notice til I pointed it out. I've made the point before - non musos just don't notice the details we notice. They were playing in a small bar with maybe 30ppls in the room using Mackie SRM450s with no subs and whilst they had a fair amount of bass without sub it just sounded 'messy' to me which was surprising given how produced the backing tracks were. Didn't sound like a band but ppls still danced and they were a good act overall. Cheese and backing track quality is very subjective...

 

 

It does NOT matter whether Musicians are impressed with you. What is more important is that the crowd is...and that's where your money is. So what if some 'purists' say a certain band sucks...if they get many more bookings than those 'purists'?

 

Now...dont anyone go running his mouth and give me the same old recyled crap about lame or bad the Band sounds when they use backing tracks. Bottom line is...if it works for you....good. If it doesnt...move on and change your act!

[stunningbabe]

You should adopt this principle: 'What Musicians think of me is not important. What Clients think of me IS!'

 

End of the day...no Musician is gonna pay you...but your clients will pay you! So...I dont care at all what Musicians think of me. Whoever pays me gets my attention.

[richardmac]

 

I saw a duo on fri night while I was out having a nice dinner with the wife and I personally disliked their backing tracks. 1. Overly produced and mixed 2. Backing vocals on the track 3. Guitars on the track The females singer and male keyboard player in the duo could have stopped playing and you'd barely notice the difference. Did the crowd notice...nope...I asked my wife what she thought of the backing vocals and she didnt even notice til I pointed it out. I've made the point before - non musos just don't notice the details we notice. They were playing in a small bar with maybe 30ppls in the room using Mackie SRM450s with no subs and whilst they had a fair amount of bass without sub it just sounded 'messy' to me which was surprising given how produced the backing tracks were. Didn't sound like a band but ppls still danced and they were a good act overall. Cheese and backing track quality is very subjective...

 

 

This is a very important point, and I think that people forget this. I performed for a year without backing tracks until people finally convinced me that it would help my act, and it definitely did. It is very true - do what your audience wants, and what you want... not what other musicians would want.

 

But here is something that is also true - People do hear the "bad stuff" - it's just that they have naturally low expectations, so it sounds fine to them. Reading this post by six20aus, I had the same feelings - I cringe when I hear vocals in backing tracks, and when I hear guitars in them, too. You can get away with some subtle piano in a backing track, but guitar? Eek! But the bar is so low, people didn't care. As a matter of fact, I'd say that people's expectations of audio quality have actually gone backwards, and are now more similar to, maybe the 60's.

 

I grew up in a wonderful time for music - the 70's and 80's. The big deal when I was in high school was your home stereo - you had to have a good one. My buddy had an $800 system as a high school senior. Find me a high school senior that has a home stereo that good right now. It would be very difficult. People have stopped buying home stereo equipment because they no longer care. And don't tell me those piece of {censored} surround sound 1,000 watts for $300 systems are anything but crap.

 

So it's no wonder that two people with speakers on sticks and backing tracks can do a gig that people enjoy.

 

But I would still argue that they'd enjoy it MORE with subs. And if not subs, then 15 inch woofers sitting on the stage. I think we have to make the audience happy, but we also need to make ourselves happy. But if you're doing backing tracks and not using subs, and you're happy, go see a full band, with a good PA and good subs. Feel the energy they're putting out. Feel the kick. Then go back and listen to your speakers on poles. And then go pick up a used EV SB122 for under $300 and add it to your system. Having a great low end works even at softer volumes.

 

Of course, if you're not using backing tracks, you don't need a sub.

 

One more comment about people not caring. In Japan, they do concerts, attended by thousands of screaming fans, of animated characters. They project the characters on the stage, and the lights and sound are like a real concert. And the kids go nuts. And there's NO ONE ON THE STAGE except these pretend animations. One day bars will have a hologram generator, and The Who will be playing in the corner of Mel's Bar. We'll all be out of business at that point.

[richardmac]

I think "pretend animations" is redundant.

[daddymack]

the hologram artist has already been demoed...and succeeded. This is a double edged sword though...why produce new acts if the classics can be seen holographically...but without new acts, using holograms is a dead end.

[Notes_Norton]

 

You should adopt this principle: 'What Musicians think of me is not important. What Clients think of me IS!' End of the day...no Musician is gonna pay you...but your clients will pay you! So...I dont care at all what Musicians think of me. Whoever pays me gets my attention.

 

 

As I've said for years. You can play for yourself, you can play for other musicians, or you can play for the general public. If you are good enough you will get the audience you asked for.

 

On Woofers.

 

I have 15" woofers in my cabs and don't use a sub-woofer. I used to carry a sub when I had different speakers.

 

I agree that amount of speaker cone paper is appropriate for some backing track gigs, but I don't think you need them for all gigs.

 

I had a friend who used to do a solo with Band-in-a-Box as his side man. He played as sonic wallpaper in a restaurant for a couple of years straight using a couple of Peavey speakers with 10" woofers. It worked for him at that gig.

 

When playing dinner sets at a particular Yacht Club I turn down the low contour on the Sonic Maximizer which effectively reduces the punch and volume of the bass. I could play that gig with a very small PA system.

 

On the other hand, we have dancing gigs where I crank it up.

 

Sub-woofer or not? IMHO It all depends on the gig, not whether or not you have tracks.

 

Insights and incites by Notes ?