Starting up an acoustic duo act - guitar advice

[Potts]

No problem giving up on the bends...work on two note solos and some country type stuff. Google bluegrass riffs and you'll be shredding like no tomorrow on the acoustic.

 

The biggest problem I see with rock players going to acoustic is trying to play the same way as they did on electric. Get some open strings ringing in those solos, use more open chords and forget about playing 2 string barre chords for awhile. I'd drop any delays no nothing that masks your playing for awhile and fight through this little learning curve.

[MartinC]

IMO if your going to go acoustic, go. Get a great sounding acoustic guitar and mike it up with the best mike you can afford running throught the best quality gear you can afford. Your tone is everything. It really has an impact on the way you play and the way people hear your music. I have a three hundred dollar yamaha nylon stringed guitar-it's ok to practice with but I'd never take it to a gig. I wouldn't compromise my tone for thinner strings, lower action, or a piezo pickup(unless the mike can't go loud enough). Fingers hurt? Hard to bend notes? That's all practice. As far as doing it the same way you did it with a Paul and a boogie, that's gone. If you want to play it that way, use the les paul. Otherwise, learn to fingerpick, work it out with the acoustic, and inject new life into the tunes, or for that matter, do new tunes more suited to the acoustic.

[Potts]

What he said...except for the piezo comment. ;-)

 

 

IMO if your going to go acoustic, go. Get a great sounding acoustic guitar and mike it up with the best mike you can afford running throught the best quality gear you can afford. Your tone is everything. It really has an impact on the way you play and the way people hear your music. I have a three hundred dollar yamaha nylon stringed guitar-it's ok to practice with but I'd never take it to a gig. I wouldn't compromise my tone for thinner strings, lower action, or a piezo pickup(unless the mike can't go loud enough). Fingers hurt? Hard to bend notes? That's all practice. As far as doing it the same way you did it with a Paul and a boogie, that's gone. If you want to play it that way, use the les paul. Otherwise, learn to fingerpick, work it out with the acoustic, and inject new life into the tunes, or for that matter, do new tunes more suited to the acoustic.

 

[TIMKEYS]

Most of the acoustic guys down here play tak's bout a thousand dollar guitar. Not great unplugged but come alive and sound great when you plug them in. Real work horse guitars.

[Shaster]

I've heard a few folks say to tough it out with your fingers, the tone is the thing and so on. But when it comes to your hands (and ears for that matter) I disagree. I know of two very fine guitar players that have developed tendonitis, one in particular apparently got it from over practice. And the other fellow, I have subbed for a few times when his tendonitis got so bad he couldn't make the gig.

 

Most, not all, but most folks aren't going to notice the difference between a light set of strings and the "proper guage", and most folks aren't going to notice a little lower action than the standard - at least in a noisy bar situation. But they will notice if you're wringing your hands after every song or flubbing notes because of the pain. Hand problems might seem far fetched or unlikely, until they happen to someone you know - or to you. I'm really not fear mongering, just showing the other side of the coin.

 

Now having said that, I use 12's, 15's, 19''s, 30's ... on my electric guitar and have gotten used to bending them without issues, but I try to listen to my fingers. If they start complaining, I do something about it. Knock on wood, I'm still okay.

[steve mac]

Totally agree with Shaster, health first, I have to start every morning with hand exercises after over playing with heavy gauge strings took its toll. Think my audience of drunken revelers can either tell the difference or would be bothered if they could that I now use custom lights?

Different if I was giving a concert or recording but as a bar player it's simply not worth the pain

Steve

[pogo97]

Whatever guitar you get, unless the action is perfect out of the box, take it to the best luthier in town for a setup. And take along a set of the strings you plan to use so they can get the nut slots right. And tell them you want the action as low as possible.

 

Heavier strings with the proper setup do not necessarily mean harder to play: with heavier strings the action can be set lower before they buzz. And heavier strings will give you better sustain and richer tone and will stay in tune better; you just can't bend them as easily, that's all. I use 12s on both my Dobro and Dot and really don't notice a lot of difference in how hard I have to press compared to friends' guitars that have 10s installed. Obviously, I'm not a bendy player.

[Potts]

 

Heavier strings with the proper setup do not necessarily mean harder to play: with heavier strings the action can be set lower before they buzz. And heavier strings will give you better sustain and richer tone and will stay in tune better;

 

 

^This...

[OldGuitarPlayer]

Bring your current Yamaha acoustic guitar in to a good luthier or tech for a proper setup. It will make a world of difference.

[Brave Ulysses]

 

I've heard a few folks say to tough it out with your fingers, the tone is the thing and so on. But when it comes to your hands (and ears for that matter) I disagree. I know of two very fine guitar players that have developed tendonitis, one in particular apparently got it from over practice. And the other fellow, I have subbed for a few times when his tendonitis got so bad he couldn't make the gig. Most, not all, but most folks aren't going to notice the difference between a light set of strings and the "proper guage", and most folks aren't going to notice a little lower action than the standard - at least in a noisy bar situation. But they will notice if you're wringing your hands after every song or flubbing notes because of the pain. Hand problems might seem far fetched or unlikely, until they happen to someone you know - or to you. I'm really not fear mongering, just showing the other side of the coin. Now having said that, I use 12's, 15's, 19''s, 30's ... on my electric guitar and have gotten used to bending them without issues, but I try to listen to my fingers. If they start complaining, I do something about it. Knock on wood, I'm still okay.

 

 

this is consistent with a couple of the better local players I've talked to - one of whom plays out most nights of the week. with all the advances in PA, effects and modeling, guitars with built in mics, etc. - i get the impression string gauge is more a matter of personal preference than a tone driver. it's probable that I won't be using the apx for gigging, but the responses i'm getting here will help to inform this new tone quest of mine. thanks, all!

[BlueStrat]

 

Whatever guitar you get, unless the action is perfect out of the box, take it to the best luthier in town for a setup. And take along a set of the strings you plan to use so they can get the nut slots right. And tell them you want the action as low as possible. Heavier strings with the proper setup do not necessarily mean harder to play: with heavier strings the action can be set lower before they buzz. And heavier strings will give you better sustain and richer tone and will stay in tune better; you just can't bend them as easily, that's all. I use 12s on both my Dobro and Dot and really don't notice a lot of difference in how hard I have to press compared to friends' guitars that have 10s installed. Obviously, I'm not a bendy player.

 

 

9 times out of 10, when people bring me their acoustic guitars to work on, the truss rod is too loose, making the neck bowed and hard to play. I cringe when I think how many people buy their kids guitars and they lose interest after a few weeks and quit because the guitar has never been properly adjusted and is too hard for them to play. Usually a half to 3/4 turn on the truss rod will be like magic to these guys: "Wow, this is so much easier to play!"

 

I went to a local pawn shop and looked down the neck of every guitar in the store. Every one of them had a bowed neck. Lots of Squiers, Lyons, Peaveys, Ibanez, Epihone. Every one represents a beginner guitar that some kid probably quit playing because it was too hard. I told the kid running the music department in the pawn shop that if he'd adjust those necks, they would probably triple their sales. He lookled at me like I had two heads.

[Pine Apple Slim]

People who love acoustic music will def notice the diff.

The average drunk in a bar, prob not.

 

I cut my teeth in the 70s on Doc Watson and Norman Blake, so it matters to me.

But I ain't the guy who's probably gonna come and see you.

I can't stand plinky rattly tone and effects out the wazzo.

Even when I'm plugged in and playing 50s & 60s covers with my current group.

I kinda compromised. Went and got me an affordable, set up to my specs, little 24.75 scale OM with a wider fingerstyle neck and a solid top, stuck the M1A in it, and play thru a Roland AC60. I hardly ever even use the chorus on the Roland. Its not the best tone but I can live with it. With reg light ga on the shorter scale I can bend just fine, and the wider neck is nice for some fingerstyle or hybrid picking licks.I got a total of around $400 bucks in the "plugged in" guitar, including the pickup and a case.

Would I rather use a better solid wood guitar? Sure. But money don't grow on trees, and I wasn't gonna take the meds off my D28 and install a pickup in it. I keep it for real acoustic use, not rock n roll covers.

[Loner]

In my humble opinion, a hybrid guitar is the way to go if you're going to play any rock at all. I've never played a T5, but they are very costly, and I don't like the way they look. If you have an electric that you like, get a Fishman Powerbridge AND THE POWERCHIP!(that's important) Get a mini SPDT switch and you can go from electric to acoustic instantly. I would use a preamp pedal for effects and run the acoustic sound to the PA, not an amp The whole setup is less than $300 and it sounds as good or better than most acoustics w/piezos.

 

Before the audiophiles jump all over this post, just remember that you are going to be playing in bars, not recording studios. Ease of setup and a wide range of useable tones is your goal, I assume.

[chemikool]

I agree with everyone about the tone issue of thicker strings, however I've found that kills my fingers no matter how much I play. Also, since I move between acoustic and electric a lot I don't want a significantly different feel among my guitars. I play 9s or 10s on electric and 10s or 11s on acoustic to make the transition as easy as possible.

[pogo97]

This is getting a bit OT, but my notion of a great guitar, even/especially an acoustic, is one that is especially responsive to your fingers. So my Dobro can coo like a baby and bark like a dog and howl like storms on the Mississippi without touching anything but the strings. It's in your fingers and the job of the guitar is to tell the world what your fingers are saying.

 

That said, playing a bar is something else again and I know that getting acceptable (or any) sound is priority one. And that the crowd will drink more beer if you play "Brown Eyed Girl," "Van Morrison. lead guitar both pickups Les Paul" using the "Les Paul" setting on your guitar/processor combo. It's up to you, though, to get Van's fingers.

[Brave Ulysses]

 

Man up. Get an acoustic made of solid wood, install a pickup system, and set it up well. Acoustic modelers more often than not sound brutal(piezo pickup electrics includes), unless theyre in the hands of someone who REALLY knows how to setup a good PA system/amp for the guitar

 

 

i was going to push back on this suggestion, then i looked at some of the open mic vids posted elsewhere on this forum - wow, you're really flying on that epiphone on those beatle tunes. great singing from both of you too. I would gladly listen to you two guys anytime.

 

Same to some of the others contributing here whose vids I saw - pogo, potts, chemicool - you all are seriously excellent. i should probably practice a little more and whine about prickly guitars a little less!

[tubetonez]

I use an older model of this, mine is sunburst with the pseudo "sound hole". I had a Fishman transducer/pre installed, and it sounds really good. I usually use .11 acoustic strings and swap in a plain G string. I think the older models are better, and can usually be found on Ebay. The stock electronics pretty much suck, you have to use outboard gear to get a decent sound. The Fishman makes a huge difference. Solid body, no feedback at all.

 

[Greg.Coal]

 

Brand doesn't matter. Just get it set up with light strings and low action to your liking. Wood doesn't matter that much IMO based on your stated usage, plywood is just fine or prob better for your purposes. Pickup system is primary. Get good electronics no matter what. I recc going aftermarket for that, as lower end gits usually have really crappy electronics.

I know I'm late to the discussion/argument, but I agree wholly with this reply. Since you'll be EQ'ing your guitar, you can alter the tone dramatically. I suppose if there is an acoustic purist out in the crowd you might disappoint him, but get what you like to play. And, +1 to spend your money on the pickup system, etc. And, it's true: the touring pro's prefer plywood guitars for their durability and stability. No, I don't mean Eric Clapton playing his Martin, I mean the 1000's of no-name people like yourself workin' for a living.

 

Greg