The rack calls to me.

[Nick Steen]

I'm falling into the churning maelstrom of gear and G.A.S. that is the guitar rack.

 

I feared that this day would come, yet I find that it just feels right.

 

And since I have an undying urge to acquire more rack gear... Please recommend a good solid state power amp for me to research (or several). Otherwise I'll go the Mesa 20/20 route.

 

Also considering an Alesis Quadraverb... Oh, and a rack tuner. Any information on any of that would be grand, but don't feel obligated, since I'm sure I'll find it all while I browse the forums and the rest of the internet.

 

And I soooo thought that I had ended my G.A.S. a couple of months ago.

[JMPMarshall]

Mosvalve is the way to go for solid-state

 

I must add solid-state is super cheap and requires no maintenance

 

Any less than a G-Major for effects you're really wasting your time and that has a tuner

[Gorgon90]

Mosvalves have a good reputation round here although I've never tried one personally. My Marshall 8008 has always been reliable, has plenty of power, and sounds pretty good although it won't hold a candle to a valve based power amp in the tone dept. Also look out for the Rocktron Velocity series.

 

The Alesis Quadraverb is an old unit now and no doubt the TC Electronics G-Major is a lot more advanced and capable. However if you were looking to buy a second hand unit on the cheap to dip your toe into the water of guitar racks they aren't a bad option as they can be had for peanuts on ebay and you'd get your money back easily if you decided to sell it (whether you'd decided to upgrade or that racks were not for you). A Quadraverb can always be chucked into a PA after you've finished with it to add an extra reverb or delay as well. The Quadraverb GT which I have also has a analog guitar preamp built in and still produces some reasonable tones (particularly useful when going direct to record some demo stuff and you just want to plug and go). This is not to say you can't get better these days but then you're paying more money.

 

Rack tuners. You can either get a unit with one built in (G-major) or you're looking at a dedicated rack unit. Look at Behringer for the cheap options, Korg or Peterson for the not so cheap options. There are/have been some other options but that's mainly what's available now to the best of my knowledge.

 

Good luck with it all.

[Nick Steen]

Thanks for the advice, very helpful.

 

I forgot to mention that I have a MP-1. Currently I run that through an ART graphic EQ (probably going to remove or replace that soon), Alesis 3630 compressor, into my head's power section (Marshall JCM SLX). I want a quiet poweramp that isn't going to fly into distortion when I turn it up to a heinous recording volume. The more I read about the SS power amps, the more I see "sounds like {censored} when I A/B with my Mesa", and the more I have second thoughts.

 

So I guess my new question is whether or not a tube power amp is going to break up when I'm trying to play clean (I like insano-cleans). I'm looking particularly hard at the Mesa 20/20 or the 50/50, so anything about those in particular is cool, and any other good tube power amps that aren't 4 unit monsters from hell would be good to hear about.

 

Same scenario as before, still searching around.

[grrrunge]

 

Thanks for the advice, very helpful. I forgot to mention that I have a MP-1. Currently I run that through an ART graphic EQ (probably going to remove or replace that soon), Alesis 3630 compressor, into my head's power section (Marshall JCM SLX). I want a quiet poweramp that isn't going to fly into distortion when I turn it up to a heinous recording volume. The more I read about the SS power amps, the more I see "sounds like {censored} when I A/B with my Mesa", and the more I have second thoughts. So I guess my new question is whether or not a tube power amp is going to break up when I'm trying to play clean (I like insano-cleans). I'm looking particularly hard at the Mesa 20/20 or the 50/50, so anything about those in particular is cool, and any other good tube power amps that aren't 4 unit monsters from hell would be good to hear about. Same scenario as before, still searching around.

 

 

First off, the mesa 50/50 and the mesa 2:50 are not the same. They're close, but voiced differently. I prefer the sound of the 50/50, which is the old model of the two.

Second, by being lower wattage, the 20/20 should theoretically be easier to push into power-tube saturation when cranked to higher volumes.

Also, rumor has it, that the transformers in the 20/20 somehow lowers the point where power tube saturation occurs due to design issues.

Personally, I'd go with a Mesa 50/50 or a VHT 2502

[Spacehog26]

I really like the sound of my Marshall 8008, although admittedly I only use it for my wet signal, so there's already tube warmth going into it. They're dirt cheap used too (thankfully - I blew my first one up by accidentally patching it into a cab switched to mono instead of stereo!). If you like uber-clean, as I do, they're excellent.

[bigjd]

I like the sound I get from my Carvin TS-100.It's way clean with my MP-1.

Had a quadraverb in my rack forever,but I just scored a G-Major and its really made stuff more fun to play. Quad is good,Major is way better!

[Elric]

Another "SS" option for power amps for an MP-1 would be an ADA Microtube (although technically they're hybrid since they have a preamp tube to condition the signal coupled to a MOSFET power section).

 

I have an MP-1 Classic+Microtube 200 rig and it just kills for a light weight low maintenance rig. With some JJ 12AX7s, EQ/Compression, and a good cab it's quite comparable to my other MP-1 rig running off my 30W EL-84 powered Classic 30 combo power section in terms of tonal quality. The frequency response is still just a touch more "HiFi" on the SS rig but that's about it... could easily live with it as my only rig in a time of crisis.

 

If you go SS, you want a lot of clean headroom so go with something with a higher power rating than you would ever want for tubes. 80-100W per channel minimum. It's sort of the opposite of tubes, in that regard.

 

As stated in another thread I think a lot of people try to treat SS amps like tube amps and biff it pretty badly and I think a rack rig has slightly different requirements versus a head, etc.

 

I also think there is more psychology at work than what people are willing to admit to, as well.

 

Of the Mesas you're considering, I'd pick the 50/50 if my goal was big headroom.

[alekke]

I have SS Crate SPA-200 which I use in 2x100W stereo mode with hush and dbx equalizer and I am very happy for a quite some time in live and in studio cases.

[cmw]

I just "upgraded" from a Crate SPA-200 to a Peavey Classic 50/50. The Crate sounded just fine and at $50, it was a good entry-level rack mounted SS amp.

[Keebz]

Mosvalve is a decent power amp, but is very weak when compared to Tube power. I'd go for the 20/20 if I were you, and there wouldn't be a need to upgrade unless you need more power, and 20 watts on each channel will be plenty loud as well.

[JMPMarshall]

there isn't much of a price difference between a 2020 and a 5050 and I think the 5050 sounds a hell of a lot better

[krash73]

ADA B200s does pretty good with my MP-1 Classic. See if you can find one they kill with MP-1.

[Nick Steen]

Wow, thanks for all the recommendations and info. Extremely helpful. Except now I pretty much want one of everything.

 

I'm probably going to go for the Mesa 50/50... And I just happened to get an Ampeg A-120 from a friend (SS), which just happens to cover my bases. Haven't turned it to a reasonable volume yet, but at low volumes it sounds great. surprising, since this thing has probably seen everything short of atomic war (and even then, I'm not sure).

 

As for effects... I have a Lexicon MX200 that I haven't really used for much, and I'm going to throw that into the signal path until I get something better, which will most likely be the G-Major.

 

Thanks again for the help!

[rotebass]

Sounds good man, you've got the basics and you're on your way to having a killer rack setup.

[Bryan316]

I'm falling into the churning maelstrom of gear and G.A.S. that is the guitar rack. I feared that this day would come, yet I find that it just feels right. And since I have an undying urge to acquire more rack gear... Please recommend a good solid state power amp for me to research (or several). Otherwise I'll go the Mesa 20/20 route. Also considering an Alesis Quadraverb... Oh, and a rack tuner. Any information on any of that would be grand, but don't feel obligated, since I'm sure I'll find it all while I browse the forums and the rest of the internet. And I soooo thought that I had ended my G.A.S. a couple of months ago.

 

 

Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier! Got lots of good suggestions for you after years of helping my brother build and rebuild and re-rebuild his racks. Lots of improvements, upgrades, simplifications and a HUUUGE learning curve.

 

First off... solid-state power amps. These are hard to find these days cuz everyone loves them, but the Marshall Valvestate Pro 120 is a 120 x 2 stereo amp with reliable tone and rock-solid construction. Shame they don't make it any more. Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top hoards them because he loves their sound and reliability.

 

 

 

Now then... to the actual rack construction.

 

DO NOT BOTHER WITH GATOR CASES. PERIOD. If you're willing to invest into rack gear, you better be willing to invest in a quality rack.

 

SKB U.S. Roto Racks. These are not the wimpy flexible aluminum-rimmed SKB effects cases, these are the steel-rack-rail waterproof racks with durability and security in mind.

 

 

1 - Waterproof. It's a single piece injection-molded body with NO rivet holes, NO screw holes, and only the latch rivets exposed to the weather. But even those are hella-tight and sealed. Mine didn't have it, but you can add a rubber gasket to the lids to make them absolutely waterproof. Any tube of silicone caulk, or automotive gasket-making material in a tube will work perfectly.

 

2 - Handles. They're NOT the aluminum bars that can pop loose, and pinch your knuckles cuz they're so close to the body. They're molded right into the design of the rack body. I wrapped my handles with hockey tape for a perfect no-slip grip cuz the bare plastic itself is a little slick.

 

3 - Sturdy. The rack rails are steel, not the flexible aluminum crap, and NO RACK NUTS!!! Gawd I hate rack nuts, I love tapped-hole steel rails. I also bought extra rack rails and mounted them in the back to rear-mount my Furman conditioner.

 

4 - Light. The only metal parts are the latches and the rack rails. Everything else is plastic. Incredibly light weight. You'll never EVER convince me to use a wooden-shell rack with those big steel ball corners and crap. No way. I want light racks, not boat anchors.

 

5 - Flexible. This plastic body was designed to give a little if you drop it or bounce it while transporting. It won't crack and splinter from a drop like wooden racks. The corners might get a bit dinged but that's what it's designed to do.

 

 

A few more recommendations.

 

Signal wires to one side, power cables to the other side. Velcro. Zip ties. When you start wiring things up, keeping your spaghetti under control will save you time and stress. ESPECIALLY when you have something go wrong at a gig!

 

Tap lights inside your rack will also save you time and stress. Just sticking a battery-operated LED tap light to the roof of the rack, and no dark stage will ever trouble you. Relying on those little goosenecks in the back of a Furman only works when you have the power plugged in already.

 

Signal chain is hella-important. Especially when considering signal levels and ins/outs and keeping noise down and having effects programmed correctly. Here's the signal path we created, and it makes good sense especially if you have loud sounds like really overdriven gain for your distortion sounds.

 

Guitar In

Tuner

First noise gate before preamp

Preamp

EQ if you need one

Second noise gate for controlling preamp

Effects processor

Power Amp

 

ISP has the Decimator Pro Rack G for an ideal noise-controlling system. It works by giving you two noise gates, to put before and after all your tone-generating gear. The first noise gate tracks your guitar's incoming signal, to suppress feedback and unwanted handling noise that you don't consider playing, like sliding your fingers along the strings accidentally. The second channel tracks to the first. This lets you use really hot high-gain preamps like the Mesa TriAxis or the Engl pre's or any myriad of superhot, hissy noisy tube preamps. This lets your rig be dead-quiet when you want it, and blasting hot when you play. Nobody likes amp hum on stage between songs, do they?

 

I know that people seem to like dedicated rack units for different stuff. Some tone nazis demand to have high-end reverb units and dedicated delay units and dedicated flangers.... yeah yeah sure sure. But if you invest in a good quality rack unit that can handle everything, and program it well, you'll be fine. My lead guitarist has the Rocktron Xpression, and my rhythm guitarist has the TC Electronics G-Force. They both agree, that the Xpression is a very very good all-in-one processor. Everything they've tried to get, they've got. It's very flexible, and VERY USER FRIENDLY.

 

The only thing it doesn't have is a wah. But that's an effect you want before the preamp, not after it where you'd typically put the Xpression for general effects. Also, there's hardly anything out there for rack wahs. Your options are: 1 - Dunlop CryBaby Rack Wah which they don't sell publicly and is very rare to find, 2 - Rocktron Chameleon and dedicate it as a wah but it has a preamp and gain stage with REALLY hacks with your tone, or 3 - build yourself a rack wah by butchering a wah and adding a A-D converter for midi signals. BOOO.

 

 

If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask.

[jonPhillips]

 

Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier! Got lots of good suggestions for you after years of helping my brother build and rebuild and re-rebuild his racks. Lots of improvements, upgrades, simplifications and a HUUUGE learning curve ... If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask.

 

 

Great post, full of solid advice.

[JMPMarshall]

I wouldn't risk tube gear in anything but a shock rack, even if only the preamp is tube

 

The tap-lights are a good idea though

 

Those of us that pick dedicated units do so for flexibility and reliability

 

Instead of being {censored}ed if your fx processor goes down, we're out a chorus pedal, phaser pedal, delay, reverb, or compressor

 

All things we can compensate with something else or go without all together

[Bryan316]

Also for those of you who do heavy touring and lots of shows, they now make the US Roto Rack in a shockmounted version. NOT foam. ONLY rubber isolators! Far more freedom for the inside frame to wiggle and bounce instead of taking the impact. Foam shockmounts are horrible for actual impacts, because the foam doesn't let the interior frame to move. Yes, it's a layer of protection, but more for punctures, not vibration.

 

 

http://www.skbcases.com/music/products/proddetail.php?f=&id=125&o=&offset=2&c=80&s=80#

 

The MultiView shows the interior rack frame and the rubber isolators.

 

 

 

If they used softer cell foam that actually lets the frame wiggle, it'd be acceptable. Just go find a foam rack and try to push the interior frame, you'll see what I mean.

 

Oh, and still lighter than wooden shockmount racks! Cuz those require double the plywood for the interior frame, whereas US Roto Rack's interior frame is wide open, just a skeleton. Sturdy but very lightweight.

 

 

 

Now... if you want a ROLLING Roto Rack....

 

http://www.skbcases.com/music/products/proddetail.php?f=&id=535&o=&offset=1&c=117&s=80

[grrrunge]

Also, there's hardly anything out there for rack wahs. Your options are: 1 - Dunlop CryBaby Rack Wah which they don't sell publicly and is very rare to find

 

That's not quite true. The Dunlop rack wah is commonly available from their custom shop right here $599.99 it's sort of expensive though

There is also the EMB rack wah, which i have currently only heard to be owned by 4nkam from this board, Kirk Hammet and Slash, but then again, it sounds fabulous! check it out

 

Otherwise the G-System has a nice wah in its pre-drive effects section, and the Line6 POD's and Behringer's V-Amp has wahs as well, which can be placed before the preamp without hitting any additional gain stages.

 

just my $.02

[Bryan316]

AAAH... sorry, allow me to correct myself.

 

 

There are no dedicated MIDI rack wahs. You either gotta use a preamp or multi-effects processor with a built-in wah like the Rocktron Chameleon, or you gotta get the remote wahs. Problem is, remote wahs require another cable to your pedalboard for a dedicated pedal. We're looking for a dedicated rack mounted MIDI controlled wah, that can be programmed to any midi floorboard with expression pedals.

 

My guitarists have their rigs simplified to their floorboard controllers, a power cable and a single MIDI cable. Drop one line, plug two jacks. They don't want anything more than that out front, and definitely don't want the Dunlop remote rack wahs.

 

There's a guy in Germany who's got plans to rip apart some of the current production wahs, install them in a rack chassis, utilize the MIDI interface and A/D converters, and program them to your pedalboards. The only problem is, all his blueprints are in German.

 

Why a company hasn't produced a MIDI-controlled dedicated rack wah yet, we'll never know.

[jimbles]

I'd buy one... In fact, I'm seriously considering coming up with some kinda way to control my Crybaby from Hell remotely. I believe that the pot has a removable connector, so it should be possible without having to modify the actual pedal at all, just use an external MIDI device to control the treadle, and use the likes of the GCX for switching...

[petejt]

This is just confusing me more with what to do with my effects routing

 

 

 

How can an 8-channel mixer be used in a multi-amp setup with a few effect pedals (but keep them pedals on the floor)?

[Bryan316]

 

I'd buy one... In fact, I'm seriously considering coming up with some kinda way to control my Crybaby from Hell remotely. I believe that the pot has a removable connector, so it should be possible without having to modify the actual pedal at all, just use an external MIDI device to control the treadle, and use the likes of the GCX for switching...

 

 

What you need to do is get a digital-to-analog controller, to convert the -127 to 127 MIDI signal into a -5 to 5 volts DC raw juice signal. That will create the effect of the voltage sweep the treadle's potentiometer creates from the solid 5 volts provided in the circuit of the wah.

 

Here's the Youtube video of the German guy with his modded rack MIDI wah:

 

[YOUTUBE]

[/YOUTUBE]

 

His website has all the details, but his schematics aren't Yankee-friendly.

[Gorgon90]

This is just confusing me more with what to do with my effects routing How can an 8-channel mixer be used in a multi-amp setup with a few effect pedals (but keep them pedals on the floor)?

 

I'd guess you're looking at getting a multicore of some sort running from rack to floorboard to give you all the different signal paths you'd need if the mixer's in the rack. That'll add a lot of length to the signal path if each pedal is in it's own loop. Assuming 20ft front to back that's 40ft of signal cable per pedal in use. It may be worth looking at housing that in the floor board somehow. Alternatively rack the pedals and get a couple of duplicates to put in different loops if you need more than one sound out of a given pedal.