Members Zachman Posted November 12, 2008 Members Share Posted November 12, 2008 ^^ Hahaha it's crazier than Zach's! What??? My rig is simple... YOUR rig is... Wylde and kuhrazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Spacehog26 Posted November 12, 2008 Members Share Posted November 12, 2008 Well, the rig is already functioning. Basically: Guitar-> string of effect pedals-> stereo split to two amps with rack effects in each effects loop-> speakers. Understood, that's almost what I was doing before I went W/D/W. Plus the Jazz Chorus amp & Leslie contraption (still yet to be built).Yeah, that's one of the crazy bits Me, I'd just buy a Boss RT20 and save a lot of money, time and effort What makes it complicated is the switching process. I want to control everything with my feet rather than go up to the amps to change channels, or turning off the Jazz Chorus when I don't want it on, tap dance the pedals and unplug and unplug them every time I want to swap things around, using another footswitch to control the MarkIV, etc.I also control everything with my feet, however I store things like amp channels and my amp switcher settings as presets on my RG16 (I'd like instant access to them, but that would add a whole new layer of complexity, and probably require an Axess FX1 for the IA linking facility). I also have my post-amp FX stored as presets, and set my expression pedal to adjust anything I'd want / need to adjust during the gig.What I had to do was go through my system and rationalise what I needed instant access to, and what I could get away without... for instance, did I need to be able to switch my wah pedal out of the signal chain at any point? (I don't, which is good because the difference in cable length with that switched out made a pop when switching). So loop 6 on my RG16 is always on (feeds the FX returns of the GSP1101s), loop 5 and function switches 1-3 are stored by presets, and my wah and volume pedals are actually connected between the RG16's buffer output and the input of loop 1. I came up with a setup whereby I have about 40 presets that I use, which cover the whole gamut of FX settings, amp settings etc, and then I can choose which pedals to have switched in.I just think you'd potentially save yourself quite a bit of money and a lot of headaches in the long-run if you sat down and worked out if you could rationalise your settings in this kind of way... with such a complex setup, trying to IA everything might end up making things more complicated rather than simpler for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kendall Posted November 12, 2008 Members Share Posted November 12, 2008 What I had to do was go through my system and rationalise what I needed instant access to, and what I could get away without... for instance, did I need to be able to switch my wah pedal out of the signal chain at any point? (I don't, which is good because the difference in cable length with that switched out made a pop when switching). So loop 6 on my RG16 is always on (feeds the FX returns of the GSP1101s), loop 5 and function switches 1-3 are stored by presets, and my wah and volume pedals are actually connected between the RG16's buffer output and the input of loop 1. I came up with a setup whereby I have about 40 presets that I use, which cover the whole gamut of FX settings, amp settings etc, and then I can choose which pedals to have switched in.I just think you'd potentially save yourself quite a bit of money and a lot of headaches in the long-run if you sat down and worked out if you could rationalise your settings in this kind of way... with such a complex setup, trying to IA everything might end up making things more complicated rather than simpler for you! I completely agree with this. To be perfectly honest I can't imagine needing more than a few different IA switches per preset (for me maybe 2 or 3, for something really complicated maybe 8 or 9). If it gets more complex than that, then that's why you build new presets in the first place. I can't get over the thought that setting up the rig with that much emphasis on IA switches is really downplaying the single greatest benefit (IMO) of building a Midi rig in the first place: the ability to set up presets. One of my good friends has an uber-complex multiple amp, multiple switcher, multiple processor rig. He has somewhere between 90 and 100 different presets, and runs the whole thing with an All Access on 'Song Mode' and two expression pedals. I think he only ever uses two IA switches: tap tempo and mute. I know this is an extreme example, but the logic behind it makes pretty good sense: within any given song you'll only really need a fraction of what your rig is capable of, so figure out what fraction that is for each song and set it up to where it runs the smallest possible risk of compromising your playing. I'm not necessarily saying that everyone really needs less of "this",or that everyone really needs more of "that" or anything. I'm just saying that it's not a bad idea to take a step back and reevaluate the situation from time to time lest you run the risk of completely losing scope of the project and it's intended outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yek Posted November 12, 2008 Members Share Posted November 12, 2008 To be perfectly honest I can't imagine needing more than a few different IA switches per preset (for me maybe 2 or 3, for something really complicated maybe 8 or 9). If it gets more complex than that, then that's why you build new presets in the first place. I can't get over the thought that setting up the rig with that much emphasis on IA switches is really downplaying the single greatest benefit (IMO) of building a Midi rig in the first place: the ability to set up presets.I agree, when you're playing pre-defined songs in bands settings. That's where all-in-one presets (amp / fx-presets / pedals) rule, in Song (or Bank) mode.For other situations, like practice, working out new songs, improvising and jamming, all-in-one presets aren't necessarily the best option. In those cases you may want to select a slapback delay preset but without switching to the associated amp channel in that preset, or turn just the booster pedal on and so on. That's where nothing is predefined and holding on to presets would take flexibility and creativity away.Personally I try to accomplish both. I use Song mode with setlists for easy to use presets which control everything. For those other occasions I have a couple of banks with rack fx presets, and dedicated IA switches to control the amp and to control a couple of pedals.Pete, like Kendall suggests, in your case I'd take some time, look at your song material and "simulate" what you want to achieve. What would you (want to) do when you're on that stage, what would you really need to control. And remember, 90% of the audience doesn't notice the details of all your sounds, but 90% will notice those little mistakes in playing that may result from being too busy managing everything .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted November 12, 2008 Members Share Posted November 12, 2008 There are definitely some good suggestions re: things to consider when mapping out the game plan. Since I-- play in few live situations-- where the songs don't remain the same--much less in the same order, Do session work-- where I don't know what sounds I am going to want or need and have my own sounds that I want to utilize for writing, and performing my own stuff-- I have the earlier banks in my presets be the general sort of tones I use. from left to right cleanest to dirtiest--+ no effects to most effects (sort of). The IA switches remain the same from preset to preset and bank to bank. I only have 3 devices which require MIDI preset changes, and everything else is pretty much set and forget hence all the IA switches for me to turn on/off the set and forget items Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimfowler Posted November 15, 2008 Members Share Posted November 15, 2008 not sure where this post is heading, but i skipped the majority of the replies...anyhow, here's my take (in two parts) on the situation: part one - i've been there before. i've wanted a button for everything. and everything can be a LOT of stuff. fact of the matter is that (if you're anything like me) you'll get tired of tap-dancing if you're playing live. that {censored} is no good on stage. at home it's fine. tedious but fine. but up in front of people i tend to want to focus on playing, not worrying about whether or not i pushed the right 7 buttons in the right order. you're gonna need more legs or a few reliable friends to realistically utilize all those options. automation is the key, which leads me to my next point... part two - use the switchblade. it can send all kinds of pc messages per preset. i owned an 8b years ago and had no idea that it did this. now i own another one and it does most of the preset changing for me. it reroutes everything, changes fx patches, controls the channels on my quad, turns on/off my live looper and triggers automated loops. and if i want a little variation, my midi mate can do a lot for a pedal that costs 150 used. i guess my point is that you really ought not assume that the biggest thing with the most lights is what you'll ultimately need. not to knock the big controllers...they're great and entirely suitable for some folks. but i'm just trying to give you another perspective. for a guy with a fairly complicated rig, i try to keep it as simple as possible. -jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted November 15, 2008 Members Share Posted November 15, 2008 not sure where this post is heading, but i skipped the majority of the replies...anyhow, here's my take (in two parts) on the situation: part one - i've been there before. i've wanted a button for everything. and everything can be a LOT of stuff. fact of the matter is that (if you're anything like me) you'll get tired of tap-dancing if you're playing live. that {censored} is no good on stage. at home it's fine. tedious but fine. but up in front of people i tend to want to focus on playing, not worrying about whether or not i pushed the right 7 buttons in the right order. you're gonna need more legs or a few reliable friends to realistically utilize all those options. automation is the key, which leads me to my next point... part two - use the switchblade. it can send all kinds of pc messages per preset. i owned an 8b years ago and had no idea that it did this. now i own another one and it does most of the preset changing for me. it reroutes everything, changes fx patches, controls the channels on my quad, turns on/off my live looper and triggers automated loops. and if i want a little variation, my midi mate can do a lot for a pedal that costs 150 used. i guess my point is that you really ought not assume that the biggest thing with the most lights is what you'll ultimately need. not to knock the big controllers...they're great and entirely suitable for some folks. but i'm just trying to give you another perspective. for a guy with a fairly complicated rig, i try to keep it as simple as possible. -jim Jim, I agree... keeping it as simple as possible is the ultimate goal re: use of one's rig, in conjunction with the option to utilize the rig as needed. I am not responding with the intent to come off as argumentative, rather am just hoping to share some observations with those who may find these thoughts applicable to their own circumstances. I get a lot of comments from guys who proclaim rack gear to be silly, that it's unnecessary etc... (as if they have a clue as to what my requirements are, but I digress) I use rigs in a the following different capacities... 1) A live rig (for cover tunes, as a sideman, or as an original artist) 2) A tool box of creativity for writing 3) A studio rig for original projects 4) A studio rig for session work for clients Depending on the role/roles that the rig is going to play, will determine how one may choose to design their layout (IF they have to choose only one--NOT recommended if versatility, flexibility and the ability to have "on the fly" options is a preference/requirement). The reason I put it that way is because for some of us (I don't think a lot of guys who protest take into consideration) our rigs are utilized in ALL 4 roles that I listed above, where a "preset" (one button press switches a bunch of stuff) solution isn't necessarily very practical (as in a session work for clients scenario, or as a toolbox for creativity while writing). IMO, the most versatile/flexible/powerful rigs allow the user to operate them with ALL 4 roles listed above in mind as needed/when needed. My $.02 Zach EDIT: Granted the rig I described is NOT for the guy who only needs an acoustic guitar for their gig, or a simple mono amp and a tuner and a fuzz box and a delay. The fact that I felt I needed to qualify this, is because of the juvenile trollish behavior that is actually experienced regularly here at HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimfowler Posted November 15, 2008 Members Share Posted November 15, 2008 can't disagree with that at all, zach. what has happened in my case is that i've managed to distill it all down to certain unwavering presets. bear in mind that this is specifically for live performances with a somewhat static setlist. the versatility happens in the practice space and once i've got my ducks in a row and figured out what needs to happen and when, i've found it most beneficial to have X number of events happen simultaneously...i.e. - a single button press. i don't really require massive amounts of on-the-fly variation...were that the case, i'd certainly need a bigger controller. as you pointed out, it's a matter of approach. i just like to chime in for the little controllers and hopefully espouse their potential applicability so that ken can have a few different perspectives and ultimately make the right choice for the given application. i tend to err on the side of flexibility, but i've been goofing around with this crap for so long that i've got a pretty good idea what to expect from myself and in turn what i'll need from my equipment. -jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted November 15, 2008 Members Share Posted November 15, 2008 can't disagree with that at all, zach. what has happened in my case is that i've managed to distill it all down to certain unwavering presets. bear in mind that this is specifically for live performances with a somewhat static setlist. the versatility happens in the practice space and once i've got my ducks in a row and figured out what needs to happen and when, i've found it most beneficial to have X number of events happen simultaneously...i.e. - a single button press. i don't really require massive amounts of on-the-fly variation...were that the case, i'd certainly need a bigger controller. as you pointed out, it's a matter of approach. i just like to chime in for the little controllers and hopefully espouse their potential applicability so that ken can have a few different perspectives and ultimately make the right choice for the given application. i tend to err on the side of flexibility, but i've been goofing around with this crap for so long that i've got a pretty good idea what to expect from myself and in turn what i'll need from my equipment. -jim I'm with ya on the side of preferring to use what little I have to carry from one gig to the next hehehe, as if me being a lazy sod isn't enough, but from a practical standpoint if I'm going to get paid the same to use a small combo and a pedal or 2 vs my huge rig... 9 times out of 10 it'll be the small rig FTW. Experience, as I'm sure you'll attest-- is a wonderful blessing to be able to assist with choices and being able to maximize gear, in a pinch or to bring about the most wonderfully complicated dynamic tonal and sonic colors if called for (which may require the kind of complexity and expensive hi-fi gear that not many get the chance to say they've played let alone owned). I love having the choices, and being able to help guys who are genuinely cool, by sharing my experiences and POV-- to help them achieve their goals, and avoid some of the distractions and pitfalls that I had to go through. Keep Rockin EDIT: for the most part-- there are mainly 8-10 presets that I use regularly, the rest is icing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members petejt Posted November 25, 2008 Author Members Share Posted November 25, 2008 I've decided to design & build a pedalboard to hold my pedals & the Switchblade, before buying a floorboard switcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members petejt Posted November 30, 2008 Author Members Share Posted November 30, 2008 I've also made a slight change to my setup configuration. The Engl Fireball will send out two load signals- one to a modified Marshall 4x12 cab (containing two 12" speakers), the other to my THD Hotplate, set to Load. The Hotplate then sends a line level signal to a TC Electronic G-Major, and the stereo outputs from that will go to the effects returns of my Roland Jazz Chorus 120. I'll probably leave its chorus switch on for nice flavour. The Jazz Chorus will sit on top of the Marshall cab. And yes I'll still have the Leslie contraption going ahead . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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