Members ambient Posted January 21, 2009 Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 I love the sound of stereo guitar FX, especially through headphone panned hard left/right. I'm in a 2 guitar band, both pretty fx heavy sometimes.whilst I love, stereo fx, maybe its too much hassle and potential for {censored} up live? especially if we are using in house techs etc.Also we already use about 20 channels live, stereo for both guitars is more snake and desk channels...with 22 channels, you're running out if you wanna use verbs and delays (depending on the desk). What I'm asking is do you find that stereo fx are worth it live? how do you set it up? (panning etc). EDIT: oh snap 1k posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted January 21, 2009 Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 If you're gigging it's not really worth it. Double the gear, double the worries. One real issue is while your stereo rig sounds killer when you're in controlled circumstances, what is the audience hearing? Are they only getting one side? Are they only getting the "Pong" not the "Ping" as well when your delay is on? I've gotten down to a 212 and a head or two with almost no effects. One mic on my cab and I'm good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members prodrigu Posted January 21, 2009 Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 I would not go to the trouble either. I use stereo setup at home only, sometimes I tought of using a stereo setup with the band but that was just to much trouble for a very small payback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted January 21, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 Thanks, that's kinda what I was thinking. Just wondering if anyone has made it work and how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Spacehog26 Posted January 21, 2009 Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 I run stereo (or W/D/W depending on the size of gig and the rig I'm using) most of the time live, but I do so for my own benefit and that of the others on stage. If it gets mixed to mono out front, so be it (I have a submixer on stage and will provide a stereo or mono feed to the engineer depending what he/she wants). Like most guitarists, I play better when I like the way it's sounding, so I want it to sound as good as possible onstage, and specifically where I'm standing onstage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigjd Posted January 21, 2009 Members Share Posted January 21, 2009 I run a stereo 4x12 live. It works pretty good. I'm with the spacehog above. It always seems the less I struggle to get the sound I need to hear, the easier more stress free it is to perform. I usually mike one side for the PA/ monitor mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimosity Posted January 22, 2009 Members Share Posted January 22, 2009 Most PAs are mono, so it defeats the purpose for the most part; plus double the gear as the others have said...What I do is use four 2x12 cabinets (yea, overkill - I know) and then put two on each side of the stage since I'm the only guitarist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rotebass Posted January 22, 2009 Members Share Posted January 22, 2009 Most PA's are stereo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Spacehog26 Posted January 22, 2009 Members Share Posted January 22, 2009 Depends where you are. In the US most places run their PA in mono (doesn't mean it's not a stereo PA, but just that they mix everything central). In Europe, it seems more places use their PA in stereo. I much prefer to use a stereo PA, and indeed all the bands I play in do use the stereo field at least to some extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted January 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 22, 2009 Most PAs are mono, so it defeats the purpose for the most part; plus double the gear as the others have said...What I do is use four 2x12 cabinets (yea, overkill - I know) and then put two on each side of the stage since I'm the only guitarist. Quite the opposite in my experience (Australia & New Zealand). I'm no sound engineer, but I imagine mixing in mono would be much harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rotebass Posted January 22, 2009 Members Share Posted January 22, 2009 Most PA's are stereo, the whole "I'm running a mono PA," is engineer speak for "I really don't give a {censored} about your band, so I'm not going to bother with panning or even a real sound check, so starting {censored}ing playing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted January 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2009 Most PA's are stereo, the whole "I'm running a mono PA," is engineer speak for "I really don't give a {censored} about your band, so I'm not going to bother with panning or even a real sound check, so starting {censored}ing playing." Yea I know you can't go crazy with panning live like you can on a recording, but a little does go along way. Especially with seperation of sounds (2 guitar bands etc). Also the odd vocal delay panning across can blow some minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members petejt Posted February 1, 2009 Members Share Posted February 1, 2009 I haven't had the chance to run my big live for a while, so haven't tried it stereo. But my guess would that you just need two microphones- one for the left speaker, one for the right speaker. They go to the mixing desk as separate channels, and from there goes to the front of house- left on the left, right on the right. Not that hard to mix. To say it again, all the soundman has to do is mix your left channel with whatever he is mixing to the left side FOH, and mix your right channel with whatever he is mixing to the right side FOH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted February 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2009 I haven't had the chance to run my big live for a while, so haven't tried it stereo. But my guess would that you just need two microphones- one for the left speaker, one for the right speaker. They go to the mixing desk as separate channels, and from there goes to the front of house- left on the left, right on the right. Not that hard to mix. To say it again, all the soundman has to do is mix your left channel with whatever he is mixing to the left side FOH, and mix your right channel with whatever he is mixing to the right side FOH. Problem being in a 2 guitar band, I need to be mixed to one side. So possible could put 1 mic hard left and 1 centre (or probably left of centre for separation). Then I'm losing stereo spread, making me think it could be more trouble than it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Spacehog26 Posted February 1, 2009 Members Share Posted February 1, 2009 In the band I play in with another guitarist, we're panned hard left and about 25% right, and then 25% left and hard right, so we get a nice thick sound, with plenty of stereo spread but still aural indication of which guitarist is playing what (our bassist sings lead, so we guitarists are one either side of the stage). In both my other bands, I'm the only guitarist so it's easier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members simeon Posted February 2, 2009 Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 we have our own stereo pa and i'm the only guitarist, so i run my guitar in full stereo and the keyboards in full stereo. it sounds great and really opens the sound up compared to a mono mix with two guitarists, you need to be a bit more careful. instead of using the pan pots to move each guitar to the left or right, try panning hard left and right and using the faders to move the sound over by bringing one side down slightly in volume. if you use one pan at 100% and the other at centre, you may find you get some phasing going on as the two halves of the stereo signal overlap (especially if you use chorus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted February 2, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 we have our own stereo pa and i'm the only guitarist, so i run my guitar in full stereo and the keyboards in full stereo. it sounds great and really opens the sound up compared to a mono mixwith two guitarists, you need to be a bit more careful. instead of using the pan pots to move each guitar to the left or right, try panning hard left and right and using the faders to move the sound over by bringing one side down slightly in volume. if you use one pan at 100% and the other at centre, you may find you get some phasing going on as the two halves of the stereo signal overlap (especially if you use chorus) I'm no sound engineer, but is that not what the pan pots do? Reduce one side in relation to the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members simeon Posted February 2, 2009 Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 I'm no sound engineer, but is that not what the pan pots do? Reduce one side in relation to the other? no, they actually move the sound in the stereo field having both pots hard left and right with one fader down slightly sounds different than having one pot hard over and the other tucked in a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted February 2, 2009 Members Share Posted February 2, 2009 Simeon is right on that one. I record with stereo guitars all the time and it does sound different. The gain ratio is different than the panning laws of most mixers. If you play in a one guitar band, stereo guitar can have its benifits. I played in a three piece where we traded guitar and bass on and off. We had stereo cabs for guitar and bass which allowed you to have the same sound on both sides of the stage which allowed you to switch instruments without having to trade positions. Hauling the extra heads and setups etc is a pain though. I wound up using 2 1X12" cabs that I could lock together for moving purposes and separate them on small stages. For bigger places I use either 4X10" or 4X12" which I also have. Still has to be a good paying job for me to haul the extra equipment. I do use stereo for rehursals and have a few guitars wired for stereo with separate pups as well which is pretty neat too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted February 3, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2009 no, they actually move the sound in the stereo fieldhaving both pots hard left and right with one fader down slightly sounds different than having one pot hard over and the other tucked in a bit interesting. So they "move the sound in the stereo field" by some means other than controlling how much signal is routed to the left and right master faders?Is it phase manipulation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members simeon Posted February 3, 2009 Members Share Posted February 3, 2009 interesting. So they "move the sound in the stereo field" by some means other than controlling how much signal is routed to the left and right master faders?Is it phase manipulation? no, you're right in what you say. the point is, that if both pans are hard left and right, then the two sides of the signal are completely separated at the master outs and you have 100% width. if you tuck one pan in a bit (say 25%) then you'll have an overlap at the master outs between the two signals. if you're using an effect like chorus, then that overlap can cause phase shifting in the zone that the two signals overlap. especially bad if you use delay repeats which are phase reversed to the main signal. so it's better to keep the width and use the faders to control the position. try it by recording your stereo signal into your audio software of multitrack and listening on headphones as you manipulate your signal. if i have time today, i'll post a couple of short clips so you can hear the difference sim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rotebass Posted February 3, 2009 Members Share Posted February 3, 2009 The quick answer is phasing and the non-linearity of the pan pots, for a more complete answer I suggest you jump over to the Live Sound section and check with the experts. There is most definitely a difference between using faders and using pan pots to create stereo image though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted February 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 no, you're right in what you say. the point is, that if both pans are hard left and right, then the two sides of the signal are completely separated at the master outs and you have 100% width. if you tuck one pan in a bit (say 25%) then you'll have an overlap at the master outs between the two signals. if you're using an effect like chorus, then that overlap can cause phase shifting in the zone that the two signals overlap. especially bad if you use delay repeats which are phase reversed to the main signal. so it's better to keep the width and use the faders to control the position. try it by recording your stereo signal into your audio software of multitrack and listening on headphones as you manipulate your signal. if i have time today, i'll post a couple of short clips so you can hear the difference sim This, I understand. Makes sense, thanks for enlightining me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members petejt Posted February 4, 2009 Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 Problem being in a 2 guitar band, I need to be mixed to one side. So possible could put 1 mic hard left and 1 centre (or probably left of centre for separation). Then I'm losing stereo spread, making me think it could be more trouble than it's worth. I still think that both you and the other guitarist can be mixed to both sides. If you both have stereo signals, all the sound guy has to do is mix your left with his/her left signal, and your right with his/her right signal. Or put the other guitarist's stereo signal as -left of centre (40%) & right of centre (40%), and then yours as hard left & hard right. You both have the separation and you've got the stereo spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.