Members tlbonehead Posted March 23, 2002 Members Share Posted March 23, 2002 Originally posted by The Evil Dr Wingnut:Just tell the lead singer it is his responsibility to buy the PA. What the hell, the guitarist spends a wad on his gear, the bassist cough up a pile of cash on his, the drummer sells a kidney on ebay to pay for his kit, and the lead singer walks in with an SM58? Bah! Imagine a bassist showing up for a gig without his amp! Plus,how many of them even own their own monitor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuel truck Posted March 24, 2002 Members Share Posted March 24, 2002 Billiam next time you have a gig e-mail me with the time and place nhpstudios@pshift.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J the D Posted March 28, 2002 Members Share Posted March 28, 2002 Bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ATOMICDOG1 Posted March 29, 2002 Members Share Posted March 29, 2002 It just so happens that I am filling out the gear list for our van insurance rider. Out of a grand total of $23,840.00 worth of gear only about 5 grand is not mine. This is not including personal rigs (bass, guitar, or drum rigs) just PA and limited lighting gear. I don't make enough to turn much of a profit, so its agood thing that the band helps with the load in/out and set up and that they have some potential or I wouldn't waste my time and money anymore. I make more $$ on the days when Strange Daze are off and I'm doing sound for someone else. Then again, Strange Daze keep me busy 3-5 nights a week and theres something to be said for a regular gig. ------------------Mike www.strangedaze4.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SG-DAWG Posted March 30, 2002 Members Share Posted March 30, 2002 i own the PA. in our band ,have about 18500. in it.i bought an old school bus to carry everything.i charge my band 150.00 no matter what.but i do not take a cut for playing guitar.a average gig makes us 400 to 600 dollars.and around here if we payed someone to do sound production for us it would run 400 a night.all the guys in my band couldnt be happier with this situation.i also told them how it would be before i bought it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billiam Posted March 31, 2002 Author Members Share Posted March 31, 2002 Well, I finally got to talking to some of the band members and the three I talked to so far were in agreement with my deal of 15% off the top for PA use and gas money to haul the stuff. The drummer actually said he was going to talk to me about giving me more money because of all the stuff of mine we used. He knew what that I was doing everyone a HUGE favor for free!! The last two memebers I haven't talked to yet are the ones who suggested that "their friend" buy a PA and run it. I think they have a control issue. That was a year ago and "their friend" had run my board on a few gigs and during sound check, things supposedly sounded good, but at the end of the night people complained that guitars were the only thing to be heard. They didn't even ask for my help at all, so I didn't offer any!! Imagine running or even seeing a board for the first time after a ten minute crash course, and that was only an eight channel with a few amps!! My system is much larger now. We haven't played out in a while because of personnel changes, but I will get things straight before our next gig!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassknave Posted March 31, 2002 Members Share Posted March 31, 2002 Good idea, Mark, but I've got a slightly different perspective. I'm in a 5-piece band (plus tech). Four of us have worked together on-and-off since 1969, first in road acts, then as weekend warriors. This incarnation has been in existence ten years, and, with the exception of turnover in one GTR/vocal slot, has been stable. We operate largely as a collective--but some animals are more equal than others. I guess I'm the "leader." I deduct off the top for PA, mileage, maintenance and expenses (the band owns the truck, the drummer hauls the band--we pay him mileage)--we consider the FOH tech a band member for pay purposes, but he has no vote in repertoire matters. One guitarist and I, in conjunction with an agent, handle bookings and scheduling--agent books road, we book local/area. I pay the taxes and issue the 1099s. After the PA and expenses, we do an even split--all feast--all famine. On more lucrative gigs (usually casinos), we set aside a larger chunk of change for the expense fund. Personnel decisions are by consensus, song selection is by majority. Set lists are worked up by several people, tried and tinkered with on smaller gigs 'til I come up with a workable, acceptable list (front vocals are split three ways, we have a few song with brass and a few others with alternate GTR tunings, so transitions can be tricky). There's a commonality of experience and trust among the four of us old guys --even the fifth, the "new" guy has it (he originally joined us almost 4 years ago, had to leave (moved), then came back last year). We even have the division of labor planned for our funerals. One will carry the urn, one will scatter the ashes, two will hand out plastic cups, the tech will tap the half-barrel. When there's a difference of opinion, my role is pretty much that of tie-breaker and persuader. If I'm generally on the winning side (things usually break out 2 to 2 without me), I can occasionally force through an unpopular (but necessary) decision. On load-ins, I'm the guy who cruises, points and helps everybody. (I loaded and unloaded the truck 'til my back went). Oh, yeah. I get to locate fresh talent, but invitations to join are consensus. Invitations to un-join are also consensus, but I get to do the actual firing. I couldn't function in this band as an autocrat. I do that in my day job. Besides, if I tried it with this bunch, the laughter would deafen me. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J the D Posted March 31, 2002 Members Share Posted March 31, 2002 Each group of people will bring a unique perspective to the table. A commune might work for some. An autocratic leader may work elsewhere. Something in between is porbably what most want. The key is to determine what the boundaries are for your relationship and to specify those. Otherwise it will get ugly at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billiam Posted April 1, 2002 Author Members Share Posted April 1, 2002 We're a disfunkshunal family. Some don't want to be told what to do or work hard enough to make things happen. So, autocratic is out, although myself and the lead guitarist have sort of taken the role as the voices of opinion, i.e. "That sounds like s***, lets play it again and maybe try this." No fingers can be pointed, everything has to be non player specific or heads turn red. We've told players to try certain things and some of the comments back were, "This is my style," meaning to me that the player is limiting himself and locking us into what he wants to play, and "I don't even listen to the bass!!" That one comes from the keyboard player, translated into "I went to music school, who the F*** are you to tell me how to play!" and "I am playing so much I can't even hear the bass!" I'm just in this band for S***s and jiggles. I've developed a strong bond with some of the good players and hope to go somewhere with them. I know that I will finally snap with the disfunctional band and quit one day, but that hasn't happened yet. I want to take some of the players and start something new. I play with another much better band in attitude as well as abilities. This sort of became my rant, sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted April 1, 2002 Members Share Posted April 1, 2002 Monitor guy's been with me 25 years, other tech/engr for 19 yaers. There's a lot to the stability and trust issue when the {censored} hits the fan. Some of the gigs we do are very large in terms of logistics, so it's nice to have 3 responsible people to oversee the regular crews. It also helps to have a frind or two on the job site if things get wierd (don't do many of these gigs anymore) and with a monitor guy that's 6'-3" and about 230 lbs, we don't get much {censored}. He's an attorney by education, so we don't get shafted either. I like the "triple damages" settlement clause he uses. Eliminates the really {censored}ty clients right up front! We did a gig last year where the tour manager had a masters in American History, their FOH sound guy was an attorney and the lighting guy was an MBA. I'm an E.E., my tech is an E.E. also! Made for a very fun evening for sure. The hangover was hell, but we stayed up after the gig having a raging discussion about N.Y. politics and economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tshapiro Posted April 1, 2002 Members Share Posted April 1, 2002 "Guys, here's the deal... Up to now I've paid for the PA and coordinated getting it here. But, that really hasn't been fair to me and I'm starting to get pissed off over it. So, from here on out, I'm going to pass that responsibility on to someone else who can work with making sure we have a PA. If you'd like, I'm willing to rent the band the pa we've been using for $100 or you can come up with a different one." Simple, then prepare to have a spine and don't cower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members '63-Strat Posted April 2, 2002 Members Share Posted April 2, 2002 Yep, money and bands are a bitch. If you said to a few guys hey lets get a hooker and we'll all screw her, would they expect you to pay for it? Probably not. But for whatever reason in bands it seems that whoever has the most money in a band is expected to pay for things without being compensated. I think the obvious thing to do is to negotiate things really openly ahead of time if at all possible. If the guys aren't willing to pay there share for things like PA/recording/promotions/etc. then unfortunately you either have to accept that and pay for it yourself or find some new band members. I know that with my band, (whom I am currently auditioning other members for unbeknownest to the others) I have the cash right now and had offered to front the money for recording. One would assume that they would then realize that they would have to eventually pay me back in some fashion. Nope, the idiots just figured they would get a free ride. If I find some guys that can compete with my old guys you can bet that I'm moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Daemonarch Posted February 9, 2003 Members Share Posted February 9, 2003 If you are serious about your music...it is your life and your business and good business men are always willing to put back into their business in order to make it grow . Music is no different.....if you deal with people who are not willing to invest in their business, which is music..... perhaps you should seek more serious business partners . On the other side of the coin there are many who spend far too much $ on the latest and greatest gear and no time on becoming better musicians...in either case such people are useless . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billiam Posted February 9, 2003 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2003 Wow here's a post from the deep, dark past. My cuyonnes have grown since this post and so have my playing skills. I don't compromise anything music wise because of friendship anymore. I'm in two originals bands and things are GREAT. No issues and the people I play with have a pro, business attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinnemrava Posted February 10, 2003 Members Share Posted February 10, 2003 I didn't read all the posts .. only the first page.. so sorry if I am off topic by now.. BUT.. lets see here..... first off re read mr knobs post on page1 .. its the good stuff also . a bass player WITH PA .. hmm who needs wo here. I think you can easly find other opertunities ( find you local freebe publication and put an ad in .. bass play with pa - looking for work .. thanks gold!)cheers thats all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SG-DAWG Posted February 10, 2003 Members Share Posted February 10, 2003 Holy {censored},this thread started a year ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tommy Tune Posted February 11, 2003 Members Share Posted February 11, 2003 Kinda sounds like your bandmates are a little on the one way side. All them .......nothing for you. They better be monster players for the ego's that they're sportin'. I'd dump em'. There are a whole lot of great players out there that have they're {censored} together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SG-DAWG Posted August 30, 2003 Members Share Posted August 30, 2003 anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MoosBros Posted August 30, 2003 Members Share Posted August 30, 2003 Originally posted by SG-DAWG anyone else? when I work with my own band as the "feature", as the band leader, I hire sidemen(usually the same familiar ones) at a fair wage to back me up...I keep the rest of the purse for the booking, and my troubles....sometimes that's good,, sometimes that's bad... i usually furnish the entire backline, PA, lighting, and show up early to load it in and set it up...occasionally I may ask someone I know to bring something specific to make it a bit easier on me(a mic or speaker stands,or chords, ect..) especially if I know they have it and don't mind bringing it, or have specific requirements for their own gear(subject to my approval of course).. they all help me strike the stage at the end of the night and get it back in the truck...then I pay them their cash... if I'm being hired as a sideman... well,,, everything is negotiable..it never hurts to ask for the money,, the worse thing that can happen is they say NO..... I've been in situations where there was not an equitable split of work , responsibilities, and such as pertaining to schlepping the gear in and out, bookings, and the PA ownership, it's ALWAYS eventually caused problems... ... I must say,,, at the very least, in your situation,, you supervise, and let them all carry and set up under your guidance, both in and out... ... atleast that may help you somewhat to become more appreciated.....and give you a break with something worthwhile... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joestanman Posted August 31, 2003 Members Share Posted August 31, 2003 man, id hate to be in a band with most of you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MoosBros Posted August 31, 2003 Members Share Posted August 31, 2003 Originally posted by joestanman man, id hate to be in a band with most of you guys. I was young and dumb too,,, but that was a LONG time ago... business is business... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joestanman Posted September 1, 2003 Members Share Posted September 1, 2003 yeah I know buisness is buisness... I can see it working like this if you are treating the band as a buisness.. IE) cover bands, wedding bands, party bands etc. But I would never want to be in a band like that. I guess things work different in my band [maybe original bands as a whole?... who knows] We handle the buisness side of things, but no one takes a bigger chunk, because everyone is investing the same amount. We bought our PA with money we as a band made from gigs... we bought our van with money made from gigs, we rent our practice space with the band fund etc... if there is an expense that occours outside of the realm of what we have in the band fund [ie pressing, initial merch cost, water pump], everyone chips in an equal amount. If the whole thing goes belly up, we will just sell the van and PA and split whats left. But I guess different strokes for different folks... I would never want to be in a cover band, or bar band etc... just not for me. So I would never want to be a "hired gun". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MoosBros Posted September 1, 2003 Members Share Posted September 1, 2003 Originally posted by joestanman yeah I know buisness is buisness... I can see it working like this if you are treating the band as a buisness.. IE) cover bands, wedding bands, party bands etc. But I would never want to be in a band like that. I guess things work different in my band [maybe original bands as a whole?... who knows] We handle the buisness side of things, but no one takes a bigger chunk, because everyone is investing the same amount. We bought our PA with money we as a band made from gigs... we bought our van with money made from gigs, we rent our practice space with the band fund etc... if there is an expense that occours outside of the realm of what we have in the band fund [ie pressing, initial merch cost, water pump], everyone chips in an equal amount. If the whole thing goes belly up, we will just sell the van and PA and split whats left. But I guess different strokes for different folks... I would never want to be in a cover band, or bar band etc... just not for me. So I would never want to be a "hired gun". that sounds reasonable enough....... I don't mind playing "covers"....even if I'm a "hired gun" for sessions,, working for a songwriter or artist who is making demos or CDs, I myself am actually playing covers of their music, even though I may have some input into how their originals are worked out.... best I can remember, sessions are the only time I've played any "original" music and gotten paid well for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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