Members RoboPimp Posted July 10, 2004 Members Share Posted July 10, 2004 Which would be better for small to med. clubs? a 12" and horn top speaker with a sub or a 15" & horn top speaker and a sub on each side in a "satellite" type of set up? I keep thinking the 15"s would be better, but then I think the 12"s might cover the mids a little better? sorry I've been posting so many questions, but I'm getting ready to go into debt for $4-5000 buck on a PA and it's scaring the crap outta me I am a simple guitar player who has messed around running sound before but never anything in this scale - which I know probably seems like a measley investment compared to some, but it's a heck of a lot for me... and y'alls help the last week is really helping a lot. I thank ye.... I'll be sure to let ya'll know how I finally turn out with this all - if yer interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members matt emery Posted July 10, 2004 Members Share Posted July 10, 2004 The majority opinion on this board is that 12's are a little smoother on vocals and can crossover to the horn higher....ofcourse this is generalisation. A good 15 is better than a bad 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members swedishcubsfan Posted July 10, 2004 Members Share Posted July 10, 2004 matt said it very well, without any brands or models, answers will be generalizations, but matt got it right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chris Hayden Posted July 11, 2004 Members Share Posted July 11, 2004 Something else to consider: If you're mostly going to play "small to medium clubs" you may want to go ahead and get the 15's for the top. Here's why, you may find that using the subs everytime out is unnesscessary in small places (ala 100 people max etc.) If you get the 15's you have the flexiblity of bring just the the tops to smaller venues, adjusting your crossover to match the speakers low end rating and still get great coverage providing you spend on some good 15 cabs. My band runs JBL EON 1500's powered by a Crest amp for smaller pub gigs. I always get a lot of compliments on our sound in smaller places. Now when we go into a bigger place or outdoors, we use just one Yorkville LS700P powered sub, which has two tens in it and kicks some major ass, with the JBL's and set of Yamaha 15's Club Series (got a great deal on them in Feb. when Musicians Friend was clearing them out for only $219.00 each, 500 watt cont., with 1000 peak, what a steal) together on top with the crossover set around 125. This set up give us a nice options depending on the venue. My two cents anyway, good luck I hope this helps you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoboPimp Posted July 11, 2004 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2004 does it make a difference that the 15" and horn I was looking at has a 2" titanium HF driver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoboPimp Posted July 11, 2004 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2004 Originally posted by Chris Hayden Something else to consider: If you're mostly going to play "small to medium clubs" you may want to go ahead and get the 15's for the top. Here's why, you may find that using the subs everytime out is unnesscessary in small places (ala 100 people max etc.) If you get the 15's you have the flexiblity of bring just the the tops to smaller venues, adjusting your crossover to match the speakers low end rating and still get great coverage providing you spend on some good 15 cabs. My band runs JBL EON 1500's powered by a Crest amp for smaller pub gigs. I always get a lot of compliments on our sound in smaller places. Now when we go into a bigger place or outdoors, we use just one Yorkville LS700P powered sub, which has two tens in it and kicks some major ass, with the JBL's and set of Yamaha 15's Club Series (got a great deal on them in Feb. when Musicians Friend was clearing them out for only $219.00 each, 500 watt cont., with 1000 peak, what a steal) together on top with the crossover set around 125. This set up give us a nice options depending on the venue. My two cents anyway, good luck I hope this helps you. this actually helps a whole lot! Thanks for your input man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chris Hayden Posted July 11, 2004 Members Share Posted July 11, 2004 I hope it helps, I'll tell you one other thing, my 41 year old back gets pretty tired humping all that equipment some nights! Especially the sub! I'm even considering getting a Peavey powered mixer for the smaller gigs for convenice. We play all different venues, two weeks ago, a small Irish Pub with 100 people, last Friday night, an outdoor community ampitheater with 1100 people, next week an outdoor community event with 4000 people, then back to the small bar again. Flexibility is definitly the key! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted July 11, 2004 Members Share Posted July 11, 2004 Originally posted by RoboPimp does it make a difference ... horn I was looking at has a 2" titanium HF driver? 2" diaphragm or 2" exit? ... makes a big difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoboPimp Posted July 11, 2004 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2004 Originally posted by dboomer 2" diaphragm or 2" exit? ... makes a big difference! I believe it's a 2" diaphram and a 1" throat? Is that good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted July 11, 2004 Members Share Posted July 11, 2004 That's what we call in the biz a 1" driver. Now some manufacturers are making HF drivers with a 1" diaphragm ... I don't know what you call them. The sales department goes crazy again! The problem here is that under most circumstances a 15" driver won't really go high enough nor a 1" driver go low enough without a lot of compromise in the 800-2K range. In an effort to get by, you see a lot of designs with a 6" midrange. There are some high end systems that do it well (Martin comes to mind) but in most economy (read that less than $1K per box) it leaves a lot to be desired. So back to 12" vs 15". A 12" crossed into a 1.4 to 2" (throat) generally is a much better solution but again this gets you over the $1k per box threshold. High quality HF drivers are expensive any way you look at it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 11, 2004 Members Share Posted July 11, 2004 Originally posted by dboomer That's what we call in the biz a 1" driver. Now some manufacturers are making HF drivers with a 1" diaphragm ... I don't know what you call them. The sales department goes crazy again! Small format 1" They have their place as the smaller diaphram geometry can improve the sound quality for near and mid-throw systems in the 8kHz-16kHz range. Just a little better definition with less eq. They are also good for stage monitors with Jazz and Acoustic music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted July 12, 2004 Members Share Posted July 12, 2004 Originally posted by Chris Hayden I hope it helps, I'll tell you one other thing, my 41 year old back gets pretty tired humping all that equipment some nights! Especially the sub! I'm even considering getting a Peavey powered mixer for the smaller gigs for convenice. We play all different venues, two weeks ago, a small Irish Pub with 100 people, last Friday night, an outdoor community ampitheater with 1100 people, next week an outdoor community event with 4000 people, then back to the small bar again. Flexibility is definitly the key! I hope you just forgot the "s" behind sub. I'm 45 and I really can't imagine running a single sub in and out to be too tough. As for not using them in small places,it depends on what you are playing. But for us,I would never go w/o subs anywhere. It just doesn't sound like the same band w/o that bottom octave,especially on the kick. About 90% of our indoor gigs,I use two 18" sub scoops per side(about 150lbs each)and two dual 12" 2-way top cabs/side. On rare occasions,I'll drop down to one of each/side when the club is very small,like in the under 100 people area. Of course,you are free to do what seems to work for your situation. But for me,I want consistency in our sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted July 12, 2004 Members Share Posted July 12, 2004 Originally posted by tlbonehead I hope you just forgot the "s" behind sub. I'm 45 and I really can't imagine running a single sub in and out to be too tough. As for not using them in small places,it depends on what you are playing. But for us,I would never go w/o subs anywhere. It just doesn't sound like the same band w/o that bottom octave,especially on the kick. I totally agree. I play a lot of smaller rooms as a single (just myself) and I still take at least one of my 18" subs. I'm 57 and it's still worth it. A guy my age needs the right size cab, though...with proper placement of casters and handles. I don't think I'd be doing it with scoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted July 12, 2004 Members Share Posted July 12, 2004 Originally posted by agedhorse Small format 1" Hey agedhorse ... who makes high quality ones? I've only run into cheapy units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 12, 2004 Members Share Posted July 12, 2004 Foster made a very good unit that has been "re-engineered" by P-Audio. They work great when you apply a 4th order (24dB/octave) BW crossover filter and hold up quite well from 2500Hz on up. They are most effective with non "thrash" type music. I used them in a 3 way touring rig crossed at about 3K, but I had plenty of PA so I was never driving the piss out of them. A very natural "delicate" sound, especially with acoustic guitars, piano and a horn section. Didn't have the bite that a traditional 1" or especially a 2" has, but a nicer top octave up to about 16-18kHz. I also used them in all my wedges, again I double-boxed the mixes most of the time and NEVER had any complaints... actually sold the complete monitor system turn key based on the performance of it. There, I crossed at 2.5kHz w/ a 24dB/octave LW filter. Perfect for all but thrash type music./ I used to do Tower of Power w/ the monitor rig and it was plenty loud for that! Never had problems blowing diaphrams until this "sound dude expert" from the local college pointed a mic at the wedges and ripped into feedback... he said "dude these monitors aren't very rugged... look the diaphrams blew"... errg You can't take the idiot out of the country! I toured with 14 of those wedges and lost a couple of diaphrams in 5 or 6 years and close to a thousand shows and this twit rips through diaphrams like changing underwear. All I can think of is how painful it must be for those on stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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