Members MrHotMark Posted February 23, 2005 Members Share Posted February 23, 2005 I play my drums now in the basement right below my bedroom. My wife goes beserk upstairs because of all the volume. The ceiling is just floor joists with R-13 fiberglass insulation between them. What do you experts recommend to block/minimize sound transmission to the room upstairs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 23, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted February 23, 2005 Play somewhere else. Seriously, there are all sorts of way to reduce sound transmission through walls and ceilings. It's not just a matter of adding some material or other above the kit...the entire room would need to be addressed in order for nobody upstairs to hear and feel the drums. To be effective a pro would need to evaluate your situation. Otherwise you're just guessing....doing this right is expensive; doing it wrong is expensive and a waste of time. It would be much cheaper for you to invest in some v-drums than to attempt to soundproof the basement to the extent that it's not disturbing in an upstairs bedroom, let alone directly above the kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scodiddly Posted February 23, 2005 Members Share Posted February 23, 2005 At the very least, some nice heavy drywall, with all the cracks thoroughly plastered. Plus an air gap between two layers of drywall... Basically you need mass to stop sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members picker13 Posted February 23, 2005 Members Share Posted February 23, 2005 That's going to be a tough one. I have to agree with Craigv. If you have some funds to go into giving it a shot, be sure to at least make it look nice so the whole thing can be considered a home improvement. Anyway, start with drywalling the ceiling. If you have the money, consider doing a double layer. Installing insulation is great for heating and cooling, but does little, if anything for reducing sound transmission. Caulking between the drywall boards may help some. You also have to look at other ways sound gets to the rest of the house. Key areas would be through the door that goes into the basement. If you have a finished stairwell, consider putting a second door at the bottom. And then there are air vents. You may want to rig some sort of stop or hard cover that you can place over air vents (heating and cooling) while you're practicing. There, that's a good amount of $$ to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 23, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted February 23, 2005 A double layer of even 5/8" drywall nailed directly to the joists will only render an STC of about 42....not nearly enough to make drums inaudible. Additionally, impact noise from the kick and toms will transmit almost unstopped. You need to get the STC up into the 60's for this, and it requires carefully designed systems applied to the entire room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lucho_84 Posted February 23, 2005 Members Share Posted February 23, 2005 Yep, her in Houston if it doesn't cut down the noise by atleast 60db in the room next door or avove then it's not soundproofed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 23, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted February 23, 2005 Originally posted by lucho_84 Yep, her in Houston if it doesn't cut down the noise by atleast 60db in the room next door or avove then it's not soundproofed. And at 60 that's only soundproof to the point where loud conversation (yelling) is inaudible, and loud (~101dB) music from a normal residential source (stereo) is either inaudible or nearly so. Live drumming is a whole 'nuther ballgame. I've been down this road before, and it's cheaper to learn from my travels than cut your own path. If you truly insist on trying, the only viable solution would be to build a drum booth completely separate from the basement and upstairs. This entails a 4" concrete floor supported on "hockey-puck" isolators, with a sound absorbent room built atop it. Consult the many books on building studios for plans and considerations, and stuff your pockets with cash. As I said, think V-drums, or consider paying for 'girls night out' whenever you want to practice....'tis easier to go around some obstacles than plow through them....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boseengineer Posted February 24, 2005 Members Share Posted February 24, 2005 I concur with all that's been said. Sound proofing only works if you kill ALL paths completely. Beside treating walls & ceiling, that also means sealing all air paths (doors including key holes), air vents, windows, gaps in the floor boards, etc..You have to be careful: If your furnace is in the basement too (it's winter in here, brrr) and your practice room is how the furnace sucks air, sealing too much may interfere with efficiency and you might be at risk for CO (Carbon monoxide) poisoning. There is also the floor. If you are sitting on the foundation, you are probably okay on a carpet. A more elastic wooden floor will transmit nicely through the house. You could find out what bothers her most: kick, toms, snare, cymbals and try to dampen those down acoustically. Another trick is masking. If she likes music, buy her a nice stereo that she can turn on while your playing. A room fountain sometimes also works well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members padudeohio Posted February 24, 2005 Members Share Posted February 24, 2005 Or you could go the cheap route and buy her a set of earplugs:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boseengineer Posted February 24, 2005 Members Share Posted February 24, 2005 We make noise canceling headphone and they work actually pretty well. These may appeal more to her fashion sense than ear plugs Although, you never know, beware the head-phone hair !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted February 24, 2005 Members Share Posted February 24, 2005 Build an electronic kit cheap: http://www.electronicdrums.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members picker13 Posted February 24, 2005 Members Share Posted February 24, 2005 I'm not a drummer, but perhaps a set of these: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrHotMark Posted March 3, 2005 Author Members Share Posted March 3, 2005 Well I started building a room downstairs. Made the walls with 3/4" plywood and 5/8" wallboard with 2x4's placed 12" apart on center, but turned sideways. The area between each 2x4 I filled with sand.....yes sand. Makes the walls heavy as hell and you can bang on the walls and no thump at all. The walls are heavy and dead. Now onto the ceiling....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 3, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted March 3, 2005 Originally posted by MrHotMark Well I started building a room downstairs. Made the walls with 3/4" plywood and 5/8" wallboard with 2x4's placed 12" apart on center, but turned sideways. The area between each 2x4 I filled with sand.....yes sand. Makes the walls heavy as hell and you can bang on the walls and no thump at all. The walls are heavy and dead. Now onto the ceiling....... I'm almost afraid to ask....what's the plan for the ceiling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members picker13 Posted March 3, 2005 Members Share Posted March 3, 2005 Originally posted by Craigv I'm almost afraid to ask....what's the plan for the ceiling? +1 That's exactly what I was thinking. That, and what happens if he punctures the wall with something? Will the basement be turned into a beach? Seriously though, it sounds like he's put a lot of thought into the problem. If he can create a solid ceiling and support it, he'll be ahead of the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 4, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 Originally posted by picker13 +1That's exactly what I was thinking. That, and what happens if he punctures the wall with something? Will the basement be turned into a beach?Seriously though, it sounds like he's put a lot of thought into the problem. If he can create a solid ceiling and support it, he'll be ahead of the game! Structurally, this can work, for the walls at least, if the sand is held back by plywood mounted on the inside of the stud wall he built. In other words, place the stud wall a few inches away from the existing wall with ply facing 'out'. Then the new stud wall will have open bays for wiring and conventional insulation. But there are very serious concerns: If the existing wall is a subterranean concrete wall, it is imperative that a very effective moisture barrier be installed before backfilling the sand. Without very good moisture protection, there's absolutely no way to ventilate the sand, which will gradually accumulate moisture and rot the plywood. In the same general vein, the sand is a very attractive living and breeding space for termites and carpenter ants, who both love warm dark moist places close to wood. They will use any crack in the outside wall or floor to gain entrance to the sand, and use the sand as a means of traveling to the floor joists. All wood in contact or near the sand should be pressure-treated. There are code restrictions against using pressure treated lumber in indoor spaces, especially the now-outlawed arsenic based chemical treatments. At the same time, the sand should be pre-treated against insect infestation, but chemicals used outdoors are usually not safe for an indoor living environment. The top of the wall would need to be carefully handled to ensure a continuous sound barrier, yet not cause a moisture problem. In my opinion this is the biggest concern regarding the intended outcome...no sound transmission. Any break between the sand and whatever is used for the ceiling will adversely affect the overall STC. The walls themselves must be of exceedingly strong construction, with sill plates very well anchored to the floor to resist the lateral force of the sand, which unlike an equivalent weight of concrete, will place stress both on the floor and against the walls. I'm very interested to hear how all of this has been handled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrHotMark Posted March 4, 2005 Author Members Share Posted March 4, 2005 Well the area around the house was treated with chlorodane (spelling?) a few years back before it became illegal to use it. That should keep the termites away. Plans for the ceiling are to put studs on the joists above 12" apart and add a layer of carpet underlayment followed by wallboard. This area of the basement does not have a moisture problem, however the walls were all built using screws, no nails so it can be disassembled for future repair if ever necessary. The goal is to reduce the drums so my wife upstairs in her bedroom on the other side of the sandwall can watch tv without her bed shaking. Total soundproofing would take a hell of a lot more. Thanx all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 4, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 Originally posted by MrHotMark Well the area around the house was treated with chlorodane (spelling?) a few years back before it became illegal to use it. That should keep the termites away. Plans for the ceiling are to put studs on the joists above 12" apart and add a layer of carpet underlayment followed by wallboard. This area of the basement does not have a moisture problem, however the walls were all built using screws, no nails so it can be disassembled for future repair if ever necessary. The goal is to reduce the drums so my wife upstairs in her bedroom on the other side of the sandwall can watch tv without her bed shaking. Total soundproofing would take a hell of a lot more. Thanx all. Chlordane was removed from residential pesticide use in 1988, so the treatment would be at least that old. Carpet underlayment will have almost no effect at all...it will attenuate high frequency sound by about 0.7 STC at most. It will have no effect on impact noise in this application. You might consider 1/2" fiber noise control panels. They run about $8 for a 4x8 in Home Depot, and installed under resiliant metal channel supporting 5/8" gypsum, they'll be better solution, though by no means complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrHotMark Posted March 4, 2005 Author Members Share Posted March 4, 2005 Fiber noise control panels, I'll have to check that out. Thanx for the tip Craig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 4, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted March 4, 2005 Originally posted by MrHotMark Fiber noise control panels, I'll have to check that out. Thanx for the tip Craig! Forgot to mention; at HD they're in the aisle with insulation, not with the plywood/lumber. They're dark brown and somewhat crumbly. I'm drawing a blank on the trade name, but I'll post it if I can find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brad Harris Posted March 4, 2005 Members Share Posted March 4, 2005 I don't know if your talking about homosote and/or TenTess (or is it TenTest??) for the fibre boards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 7, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted March 7, 2005 Originally posted by Brad Harris I don't know if your talking about homosote and/or TenTess (or is it TenTest??) for the fibre boards? Nope, it's neither. It's actually much lighter than Homasote, slightly more 'crumbly'. I need to go visit HD today or tomorrow to get the exact brand and product name. It's one of those things I've seen and used but continue to have a mental block on the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted March 9, 2005 Members Share Posted March 9, 2005 I had the same problem , I live in a apt. but I invested in electric drums bought'em used for 1500$ verses 15k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rbts Posted March 10, 2005 Members Share Posted March 10, 2005 There is no pleasing some people. My wife complains about me practicing V-drums through head phones... says it still bugs the heck out of her. I have too choices... I try to practice when she is not home.... or another thing I try is to practice my violin first... I am REALLY bad at the violin. After that, the v-drums don't sound so bad? There is something that the insulation guys do here which is called "dense pack cellulose"... where they try to pack the blown insulation into a wall cavity or other cavity in a building as densly as they can. It seems like this might be "somewhat" helpful for sound insulation. My practice room actually has cleotex (black board) that was put up on the plaster (not sheetrock) walls, and this celotex is covered by burlap. I have covered the windows with black cloth to the outside (for appearances) and then styrofoam panels which are covered on the inside with burlap, again for appearances. The wife of course still complains, but I am very pleased at how little sound is transmitted to the outside of the house anyhow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 10, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted March 10, 2005 The second best course of action for a drummer is to find a set of V-drums. The best course of action is to find a girl who plays bass. In my case, it's way too late for anyone to complain about noise. At this point there's at least $20,000 in music gear in the house, and both I and my daughter have to practice and I have to rehearse. The house is big and pretty quiet for having not too much done to quiet it. There's nearly no leakage to outside as the basement is backfilled to 1 foot, the walls are 10 inches of poured concrete, and there are only two small windows of little consequence. Sometimes I don't even know a thunderstorm rolled through when I'm down there.... Considering all the trouble a guy can get into, you'd think a spouse would learn to be happy his guy's in the basement, and the only thing he's pounding is some drums..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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