Members pktaskes Posted March 10, 2006 Members Share Posted March 10, 2006 I almost mistyped the subject as "Ruining your own sound" which might be the case at a few of our shows. I was just looking for any helpful hints on how you make sure what's being heard FOH sounds as good as it can when you're the guy in charge of not only running the board but rythym and lead guitar too (or keys, vocals, etc). Right now I have a 30' guitar cable for my acoustic that allows me to walk out front, listen and then run back and make adjustments. This sucks! And I'm such a stickler for sound. When I run it for other bands I'm always tweaking through the first 2 songs unti I hit that nirvana (or as close as I can get to it with the hodgepodge of hardware I have to work with). IMO, good sound is the difference between indifference and people lining up to get our business cards at break. At our acoustic show last night, I let my singer play the one song he knows on guitar while I walked around different parts of the bar and made adjustments. What a diffrence! -Where do you leave your mixer? Should I set it up away from the stage? Right now its at my side. -Is wireless worth it just for the fact you can go out and sit at the board for a bit and make real time adjustments? -How do you not fall into the trap of tweaking the sound based on the monitor mix vs. FOH? -Am I making too much of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 10, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 IMO, you're doing about all you can do. Putting the console out front and unattended is asking for trouble. It'll be used as a place to sit, rest (spill) a drink on, as a weapon, or as a "Hey lookie, knobs!" toy. If it's not accessible by whomever will need to stop feedback, etc, then it's the wrong location. A wireless can help since you're not restricted by distance or a cable trailing through the crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted March 10, 2006 Members Share Posted March 10, 2006 pktaskes - How did you get inside my head - to know all those questions I, as a keyboard player/occasional hack guitarist who periodically runs his own PA, have also asked over the years?! I think Craigv is right on the money: get the wireless and don't look back. It'll be helpful in that you can walk around w/out trailing your cord thru the crowd - to hear how things sound out front. Plus - it just looks like a kick in the pants! Man, do I (as a kybd. plyr.) envy you guitar guys, walkin' around, wireless, such freedom... !! I'm even considering getting a wireless for my acoustic gtr. which I play out on gigs MAAAYBEEE a half-dozen times a year (even though as a kybd. plyr. I do 40-50 dates a year) - just 'cause it looks like so much friggin' fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted March 10, 2006 Members Share Posted March 10, 2006 I have a 30' guitar cable You do realize you're losing a good bit of high end from your guitar, as well as adding noise with a Hi-z cable this long, right? While I understand your reasoning, you're crippling your sound because of the length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pktaskes Posted March 10, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2006 Originally posted by GigMan pktaskes - How did you get inside my head - to know all those questions I, as a keyboard player/occasional hack guitarist who periodically runs his own PA, have also asked over the years?! I think Craigv is right on the money: get the wireless and don't look back. It'll be helpful in that you can walk around w/out trailing your cord thru the crowd - to hear how things sound out front. Plus - it just looks like a kick in the pants! Man, do I (as a kybd. plyr.) envy you guitar guys, walkin' around, wireless, such freedom... !! I'm even considering getting a wireless for my acoustic gtr. which I play out on gigs MAAAYBEEE a half-dozen times a year (even though as a kybd. plyr. I do 40-50 dates a year) - just 'cause it looks like so much friggin' fun! You're from NJ, eh? We're looking for a KB player to sit in from time to time....hmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pktaskes Posted March 10, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2006 Originally posted by where02190 You do realize you're losing a good bit of high end from your guitar, as well as adding noise with a Hi-z cable this long, right? While I understand your reasoning, you're crippling your sound because of the length. yeah...I go thru a Sansamp DI to help the sound but even more importantly I'd rather lose whatever I am through the cable (or wireless) but be able to hear the FOH to make my adjustments. It's a night and day trade-off in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pktaskes Posted March 10, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv IMO, you're doing about all you can do. Not the answer I wanted from a vet like you as you're usually right on the money. Guess I'll keep doing what I do and leave the board at arms length...or start bringing my dobie to gigs with us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted March 10, 2006 Members Share Posted March 10, 2006 Originally posted by pktaskes You're from NJ, eh? We're looking for a KB player to sit in from time to time....hmmmm. ...then you shall look no further, dude! I am a musical gun for hire: playing weddings, banquets, rock/bar band gigs, solo/duo, cocktail piano & whatever else comes along. Are you in the Garden State as well? I'm truckin' down to a gig tonite w/the wedding band, though it's not a wedding: a fundraiser/banquet deal. It's in Hazlet, off the GSP just below the Arts Ctr. - am leaving extra early 'cause I anticipate lots of folks heading "down the shore" (as we like say here in Jersey ) w/this warm weather. Seriously, though send me a Private Message - we'll talk. I'm always up for another gig - as long as the pay is decent. I don't work for peanuts any more, not at this point in my life/career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted March 10, 2006 Members Share Posted March 10, 2006 Originally posted by pktaskes Guess I'll keep doing what I do and leave the board at arms length...or start bringing my dobie to gigs with us! "dobie" - what means this... Oh, wait - you're talking guard dogs, "doberman pincher" right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 10, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 Originally posted by GigMan ...then you shall look no further, dude! I am a musical gun for hire: playing weddings, banquets, rock/bar band gigs, solo/duo, cocktail piano & whatever else comes along. Are you in the Garden State as well? I'm truckin' down to a gig tonite w/the wedding band, though it's not a wedding: a fundraiser/banquet deal. It's in Hazlet, off the GSP just below the Arts Ctr. - am leaving extra early 'cause I anticipate lots of folks heading "down the shore" (as we like say here in Jersey ) w/this warm weather. Seriously, though send me a Private Message - we'll talk. I'm always up for another gig - as long as the pay is decent. I don't work for peanuts any more, not at this point in my life/career. If you hadn't said "down" to a gig, I'd hope you were far enough south to consider some Philly 'burbs gigs. I'm originally from Jersey. Little town called Wood-Ridge in Bergen Cty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted March 10, 2006 Members Share Posted March 10, 2006 Originally posted by Craigv If you hadn't said "down" to a gig, I'd hope you were far enough south to consider some Philly 'burbs gigs. I'm originally from Jersey. Little town called Wood-Ridge in Bergen Cty. Sure Craig, I know "Wood Ridge" (not to be confused with "Woodbridge" NJ) - have played the "Wood Ridge Manor," you must know that place, Woodridge isn't all that big... I've also played at Seasons in Washington a number of times - right off the GSP, not far from Woodridge. Though Seasons may have been called something else back when you were in the area. Sorry, I wish I was a little farther down to be able to help you out w/gigs in Philly suburbs - but I'm up around the Morristown, NJ area - only about 35 miles from the Del. Water Gap if I follow Rte. 80 West (I live only about 5-7 min. from 80). It'd have to be a pretty nice piece of change for me to haul down to your area for a gig. I have played as far south in NJ as Exit 4 off the NJ Turnpike though - in fact tmw. nite I have a gig at the Trenton Marriott at Lafayette Yard (Trenton, NJ). THAT's going to be a haul... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pktaskes Posted March 10, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2006 Originally posted by GigMan "dobie" - what means this... Oh, wait - you're talking guard dogs, "doberman pincher" right? rgr that! She's just a little female though...70 pounds if soaking wet. Runt of the litter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pktaskes Posted March 10, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2006 Originally posted by GigMan Sure Craig, I know "Wood Ridge"... I guess this thread is officially hijacked..although I was the one to do it! I'm right splat in the middle of you two...by exit 8A. I have a great (and I mean GREAT) singer at my disposal. Drummer too... More degrees of separation... I grew up in Woodbridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 10, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 Originally posted by GigMan Sure Craig, I know "Wood Ridge" (not to be confused with "Woodbridge" NJ) - have played the "Wood Ridge Manor," you must know that place, Woodridge isn't all that big... I've also played at Seasons in Washington a number of times - right off the GSP, not far from Woodridge. Though Seasons may have been called something else back when you were in the area. Sorry, I wish I was a little farther down to be able to help you out w/gigs in Philly suburbs - but I'm up around the Morristown, NJ area - only about 35 miles from the Del. Water Gap if I follow Rte. 80 West (I live only about 5-7 min. from 80). It'd have to be a pretty nice piece of change for me to haul down to your area for a gig. I have played as far south in NJ as Exit 4 off the NJ Turnpike though - in fact tmw. nite I have a gig at the Trenton Marriott at Lafayette Yard (Trenton, NJ). THAT's going to be a haul... Wood-Ridge Manor. Holy crap. Now *that's* entertainment. I'm having a really hard time remembering just where the hell it is (was). I'm picturing a stucco one-story place that's a lot smaller than the "manor" name would suggest, on Valley Boulevard (the 'other' main drag through town, lol). Even called my wife and she doesn't recall it at all (but she lived in the next town, Moonachie). I know Seasons....that's on the corner of whatever road exits off the GSP and like Pascack Road. Fancy place. I used to work up near there, and my wife's office is actually just up the road in Park Ridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members etcetera Posted March 10, 2006 Members Share Posted March 10, 2006 I used a wireless on my bass with my loud cover band and went out front for a couple of songs and then did not touch a thing for the rest of the night. The mixer was right at my side on stage.With my acoustic band ,which I play urb,I put everything thru the PA and the same signal which goes to the mains also goes to the monitors only lower in volume.This way I know pretty close what is coming to foh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted March 10, 2006 Members Share Posted March 10, 2006 Originally posted by pktaskes yeah...I go thru a Sansamp DI to help the sound but even more importantly I'd rather lose whatever I am through the cable (or wireless) but be able to hear the FOH to make my adjustments. It's a night and day trade-off in my mind. Shorten the 1/4" cable and extend the XLR from the Sansamp DI then. You can run balanced cabling for a few hundred feet with no audible loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted March 11, 2006 Members Share Posted March 11, 2006 I have my 12 space rack and mini gig-rack situated just ouside of me on my side of the stage. The mini houses a rackmount mixer that flips up,a CD player for brakes,effects processor,monitor EQ and monitor power amp. Bottom rack has 2)3000 watt sub amps,2)1400 watt mid/high power amps,main EQ,crossover,and DOD frequemcy analyzer. Our drummer sub-mixes into my main mixer. Works pretty good if you get a good dial-in initially and then hold your same volume,have band members with a good feel for dynamics,where they are personally in the mix,etc. That's another reason that I like to just run a single monitor mixer with all vocal volumes similar in the monitors. You get a good feel for how loud you are and can "work the mic" especially when getting backup vocals at the right volume. And I have a way to boost my leads on guitar so I don't need a slider-rider to get them above the mix. It can work pretty well with a little attention to detail. Obviously a really good sound person is going to be better but I've found that this works far better than an average or less than average one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted March 11, 2006 Members Share Posted March 11, 2006 tlbonehead - That sounds like a great setup for working sound from the stage. Can you post a pic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted March 11, 2006 Members Share Posted March 11, 2006 Originally posted by GigMan tlbonehead - That sounds like a great setup for working sound from the stage. Can you post a pic... I'll bring my digital camera along next time..... if I remember. The neat thing is that the only thing I need to plug in to put the two racks together are the L/R mains between the mixer and the main EQ. Having the effects and all monitor stuff in the same rack as the mixer means that they can all stay plugged in. Simplifies things a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rickkreuzer Posted March 12, 2006 Members Share Posted March 12, 2006 I do this unfortunately. I personally think there is a huge gain from having (a competant) someone riding the faders from a FOH position. To make my life easier, we're all direct into the PA. No amps. No live monitors. The live drums are behind a shield for spl control. Eveyone is in IEMs, and I have a FOH monitor off to my side so that I can hear what's coming thru the PA. It's still all I can do to get a consistant sound. I have a few people, whom I trust, to give me advice on the sound thru the evening. Typically, we're at a club for 6 or so weeks before we pack up and go to the next one, so I am not doing that many one offs. I have a DR260, which I set my basic FOH Eq's and such for that particular gig, then save for future load ins. Really a time saver and a great starting point. All in all, I get compliments on the sound for the most part. There are those evenings, usually the first night or two in a new club, where I'm not too pleased. Just smile, dial, and play...smile, dial, and play...smile... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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