Members tlbonehead Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 Usualy the D112 is if anything a bottom endy mic. Between that and 2 18"s you should get tons of bottom end. Just a wierd question but.... Are the two Subs in phase?Exactly. They seem to over-exaggerate the low end, if anything. Something is wrong if the OP is getting major "clicky" even with all the "clicky" frequencies pulled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 I can't seem to get much low end out my bass drum. I am the drummer and the sound guy(more crap to set up) It has a lot of hi end click despite the fact that I have the eq on the board and a 31ch eq with almost all the highs cut out. I have a comp/gate and a decent mic. Can anyone suggest the order of the gear and settings for a particular sound out of the bass drum,low end thump. Recorded music sounds great. Please help very frustrating What subs do you have? What powers them. Crossover frequency to the top cabs? How does the main EQ usually look? And I assume you have a 31 band inserted in the kick channel? Leave the comp/limiter totally out, at least until you get a good basic tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumstix Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 What drum set are you using? (Pearl, Tama......) and what line is it, example, Tama Starclassic. What heads are you using and how do you tune them? These all make a difference, I get a nice fat thump out of a 16x20 kick drum with no internal media added using a D6 mic just in front of the Reso head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sharnrock Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 Are you sure you aren't overpowering the channel or speakers? Sometimes if you put too much low end into it and crank it up it just ends up sounding like it has less lows. Which usually just sounds like {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tonynorie Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 While we're on the subject, just how much of an improvement is a dedicated kick drum mic over say, an SM58? Twice as good? Five times as good? The reason I'm asking is that a drum mic is probably going to be my next acquisition, but only if it will make a marked improvement over the 58 we're currently using on a small stand placed just inside the resonate head........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 It all depends. Maybe a big difference and maybe no difference and maybe even a step backwards. Witout more info, you would need to try it for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members preacherman672 Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 If you don't have subs the gains will be effectively zero. With subs a dedicated mic will word better in most cases. Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 If you don't have subs the gains will be effectively zero. With subs a dedicated mic will word better in most cases.LesAlso depends on the kick drum's fundamental frequency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members preacherman672 Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 Thus the "most cases" qualifier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 Going to a dedicated kick type mic would be a definate disadvantage if there was too much power for speakers that couldn't handle the low frequencies. Distorted and then no sound is not the objective as the night goes on and the drivers shread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumstix Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 While we're on the subject, just how much of an improvement is a dedicated kick drum mic over say, an SM58? Twice as good? Five times as good? The reason I'm asking is that a drum mic is probably going to be my next acquisition, but only if it will make a marked improvement over the 58 we're currently using on a small stand placed just inside the resonate head........ Maybe I will try this sometime to see how a 58 would sound, my guess is that a D6 will be much better, thats my kick drum mic of choice. Its pretty popular over at the rats too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr.Talent Posted February 5, 2007 Members Share Posted February 5, 2007 I agree with Jess that you should make sure the kick is tuned properly and sounds good before you mic it... D112s, although not designed as a kick mic, are very usable... Beta 52s are nice, too.. I have a 24x4x2 Soundcraft board and I use a 16band graphic EQ and gate (in that order) on the channel insert of the board I/O.. Basically my board EQ runs flat or of for that channel and use the graphic to bump 100Hz about 3dB, also bump 4 or 5 KHz a little, and "scoop out" the mids a little (the "disco" curve)- I don't compress the kick by itself so it stays dynamic... I do buss the drums and most of the instruments to group outs 3-4 on the mixer- (the vocals get grouped on 1-2) and each group has its own EQ/Comp on its channel inserts... the groups are combined at the stereo buss which also has its own set of EQ/Comps....Take care when setting compression ratio and thresholds because it will work against your EQs and squash those frequencies you tried so hard to compliment....good luck with all that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tvogel Posted February 6, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 I know the issue you have tvogel, I'm the drummer and sound guy as well. Couple of questions I have: What brand/model of kick drum? What size? What kind of heads are you using on it? How does the kick sound by itself? I've tried to make a peashooter into a cannon with just sound equipment and it never works, live or studio. You can only capture the original sound, not make a new one. Unless you trigger..... I have a Tama Starclassic Performer with the stock Evans Reso head and emad batter. 18 X 22. It sounds pretty good by itself. I have a small towell inside. I am going to try putting the mic just inside the hole. Right now I put all the way inside close to the batter(like in the studio) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumstix Posted February 6, 2007 Members Share Posted February 6, 2007 I have a Tama Starclassic Performer with the stock Evans Reso head and emad batter. 18 X 22. It sounds pretty good by itself. I have a small towell inside. I am going to try putting the mic just inside the hole. Right now I put all the way inside close to the batter(like in the studio) Man thats a great kit! You should not be having any problems with those nice birch shells. I think Tama makes some of the nicest birch kits around. I had a set about 8 years ago and still wish I had them. I do still use a birch kit now, a Pearl BRX set. I still favor birch over maple for live play esp with mic's. Birch Tama's has a nice attack and then a fast decay with the kick drum producing a nice fat tone that just owns! Good choice in drums! The emad isnt a bad choice for that drum, perhaps use the thin foam ring if you already dont. If you want to really open those bad boys up try a Superkick I or II for a little extra damping over the SK I. What I really think you should try is the D6 mic, that will really help with a fat deep tone with the shell already having the great punchy sound.I use a Regulator on the front and I usually put the mic about several inches away just in front of the port. With this setup I can really boost the kick drum during solos for a subwoofer workout and yet during the show I rarely have to worry about feedback. Hopes this helps any, feel free to PM me, not that Im some sort of an expert, just a junkie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BassDemon Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 I've recently been working a lot with getting a good kick drum sound for recording. The drum itself sounded great but when recorded it was lifeless. Our mic was an AKG D11, a cheap thing that looks like a beta 52 in AKG colours. After a I sold it I rented an SM91 and was impressed by the sound, very alive and punchy, maybe just a little bit less low end than I'd like without EQ. Then yesterday I rented both a Beta52 and an SM91 together.The Beta52 has way more low end and enough definition to use by itself.In isoloation the SM91 sounds good but playing to two tracks side by side the B52 is better.Of course the best sound is mixing the two together.The SM91 captures a lot of the click while the B52 has much more thump.With a touch of EQ and around a 35/65 mix favoring the B52 the kick sounds fantastic. If you like the acoustic drum sound I'd try a couple of things. Test playback of a recorded track through the PA.If your PA can produce a good sound of a recorded kick then it should be able to do it from a live source.Rent some kick mics and try them out.Most places here charge $10-$20 a day mic rental.If you find one that works well for you it's well worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Krank'N Posted February 8, 2007 Members Share Posted February 8, 2007 First the head has to be tuned-Amen. The front head is called resonant for a reason. The front head should be tuned looser than the beater head. Often ignored is the importance of the overtones. We dont really hear the deep lows --we hear the partials of a Kick. Ive Never heard a kick that didnt have lows -but Ive heard plenty that had too much other information covering up the lows!!! (Did someone say dampening?)Good sound is about WHATS not there as well.It takes 8 feet for a 82 hz (16 feet for 41 hz)wave to cycle. When you move the mic a couple inches your effecting partials.Also -a fantastic kick for a tune in Eflat just wont be the same for another tune in Csharp.Why do you think most rock bands play in the same 2 keys!!!( well that and the guitar players fetish for open strings).If you move the mic closer to the center of the head you will get more volume and bass. But not dead center as then phase cancellation gets nasty.Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gearmike Posted February 8, 2007 Members Share Posted February 8, 2007 Right now I put all the way inside close to the batter(like in the studio) Whoa, there's your problem right there! Back that mic off the beater. With that mic so close, all you're going to get is the impact, the smack, the slap, the crack...what ever you want to call it. If I was to mic up your kick with that mic and the music you're telling me you're doing, the first thing I would try would be sticking the mic just inside the headpointing to where the beater hits the skin. If it was still too clicky, i'd try aiming the mic away from the impact point, sometimes even all the way towards the shell. Experiment with mic technique. It's skill that will make a huge difference in your sound. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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