Speakon Connectors with Bridged Mono

[gadgetx23]

I just realized I screwed up and feel stupid....

 

I was running a PV900 bridged for subs, which was recently replaced by an RMX1850HD running bridged.

 

I've been using a cable with NL2 Speakon connectors on each end, but after reading the manual more closely this apparently isn't correct for my new amp. It seems I need to replace at least one end with an NL4 and wire pin 1+ to positive, 2+ to negative to have it set up correctly?

 

I only ran it this way once with the new amp and didn't NOTICE any problems, so my question is, what result WAS I getting?? Was it just getting a normal channel 1, even though the bridge switch was on?

 

Were the NL2 connectors even correct when I was running the Peavey using the bridge speakon? from the manual:

For the BRIDGE Speakon, CHANNEL A appears on pins 1+ and 2+, and CHANNEL B appears on pins 1- and 2-

[W. M. Hellinger]

I only ran it this way once with the new amp and didn't NOTICE any problems,

What exactly is "it" and what did you run "it" in what way?

 

Specifics in all details help considerably when discussing this subject.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

Were the NL2 connectors even correct when I was running the Peavey using the bridge speakon?

 

No, not at all.

 

NL2 connectors have absolutely no appliecation for Peavey amplifier bridge-mono operation.

[gadgetx23]

I only ran it this way once with the new amp and didn't NOTICE any problems,

What exactly is "it" and what did you run "it" in what way? Specifics in all details help considerably when discussing this subject.

 

Sorry - What I meant is that I've only used the new QSC once, and that was using the NL2 connector plugged into Ch1, amp switched to bridged mode.

 

I'm really new to using Speakon - and now that I realize I've foolishly overlooked the fact that they need more wiring attention than 1/4" connectors, I'm wondering what results I WAS getting out of these amps with the wrong configuration since I didn't notice a problem while running it that way.

[agedhorse]

Good grief... another "why bridging isn't something to do unil you understand exactly what you need and how it really works" example!!!

 

Fortunately, all you did was run one channel (chan 1) into your load because the opposing channel of the bridge was not even connected. This should not result in damage (one of the few faults that probably won't result in damage).

 

You must use an NL-4, read the manual VERY carefully. What subs are you using?

[gadgetx23]

Good grief... another "why bridging isn't something to do unil you understand exactly what you need and how it really works" example!!! Fortunately, all you did was run one channel (chan 1) into your load because the opposing channel of the bridge was not even connected. This should not result in damage (one of the few faults that probably won't result in damage). You must use an NL-4, read the manual VERY carefully. What subs are you using?

 

I expected to take some heat for this after all of the discussion lately on "why you shouldn't bridge if you don't know what you're doing".

 

I screwed up, and I own it.

 

It's running two new model SP118's, 1200W program. The reason I chose to bridge was b/c there didn't seem to be an amp in my price range that would put at least 600W into 8 ohms.

 

So what about when I was running the Peavey? How should it have been wired, and what result was I getting? I understood when I read the QSC manual, but the Peavey explanation is a little unclear to me.

[gadgetx23]

 

No, not at all. NL2 connectors have absolutely no appliecation for Peavey amplifier bridge-mono operation.

 

 

The way I'm reading this, the hookup to the PV900 would have been ok with the NL2 connector, wouldn't it?

 

MANUAL: Internally, all the Speakons are wired in what is called the

[Craig Vecchione]

I expected to take some heat for this after all of the discussion lately on "why you shouldn't bridge if you don't know what you're doing". I screwed up, and I own it. It's running two new model SP118's, 1200W program. The reason I chose to bridge was b/c there didn't seem to be an amp in my price range that would put at least 600W into 8 ohms. So what about when I was running the Peavey? How should it have been wired, and what result was I getting? I understood when I read the QSC manual, but the Peavey explanation is a little unclear to me.

 

An RMX2450 would provide 500w per channel into 8 ohms. More than enough to power the SP118.

 

You're right...the Peavey's manual falls way short in explaining the bridge outputs for both Speakon and binding post outputs...there's no mention of the connection pair to use, and worse yet the amp itself isn't labeled to show the correct Speakon pins. Based on the binding post labeling, we can assume the Speakons use 1+ and 2+ for bridged mode, but there's no way to know the polarity as neither is labeled to indicate this.

 

My guess is that you were using the Channel A output as this is the only thing mentioned, and only in the manual.

[agedhorse]

 

The way I'm reading this, the hookup to the PV900 would have been ok with the NL2 connector, wouldn't it?   MANUAL: Internally, all the Speakons are wired in what is called the

[gadgetx23]

Well I already own the 1850HD, and I want more than the 360W per side, so I will be bridging it.

 

The subs are wired pin 1+/1-.... so just to be absolutely sure when correctly wiring the QSC for bridge mode - I can replace the amp side of the cable with an NL4 connector, and wire pin 1+ to positive, 2+ to negative, right?

[dboomer]

MANUAL: Internally, all the Speakons are wired in what is called the

[agedhorse]

You plug into a speaker that's biamped, I'm thinking specifically about something like the JBL SR series, your QW or Versarrays or even our larger TAC-II speakers, you will have blown HF drivers.

 

Even your CS-3000 doesn't seem to follow this convention. It's certainly not something I would expect when hooking up an amp.

 

Neutrik NL-4 conventions do indeed exist, and most manufacturers do follow this.:

http://www.neutrik.com/client/neutrik/media/downloads/Media_1000103905.pdf

 

Note the speaker wiring of bridged with 2+ connected to 1- is NOT used on any cabinet that may be used for passing through the biamped signal... pretty much everything these days in the world of PA, and note the special cable or adaptor used for bridged operation.

 

How come Peavey doesn't use this convention (though the CS-3000 does)???

[alcohol]

from the Peavey Manual:

 

SPEAKON

[Craig Vecchione]

MANUAL: Internally, all the Speakons are wired in what is called the

[alcohol]

[agedhorse]

 

from the Peavey Manual: How is the above not conventional?

 

 

The paralleling of 1+ with 2+ and 1- with 2- is not conventional and conflicts with recommended wiring practices by Neutrik.

[gadgetx23]

 

Think he meant they're not labeled for how the jacks are wired.

[gadgetx23]

MANUAL: Internally, all the Speakons are wired in what is called the

[agedhorse]

 

If I were to encounter this back panel on a service call or phone troubleshooting call without a manual available, I would automatically assume that it was wired with the industry standard convention 1+/1- for each output, and the bridge output wired 1+/1- & 2+/2- for left channel & right channel correspondingly, and that a 1+/2+ bridge cable was necessary for bridging otherwise the "Bridge" output could also be used for biamp mode. NOWHERE does it indicate the wiring convention of the SpeakOn sockets. If they are not standard, this should be made very clear.

 

Writing your own standard serves nobody very well.

[dboomer]

 

You plug into a speaker that's biamped, I'm thinking specifically about something like the JBL SR series, your QW or Versarrays or even our larger TAC-II speakers, you will have blown HF drivers.

 

 

Why would you ever plug the output from a single amp channel into a bi-amped input? It takes two channels and then the pair need to be controlled with a x-over.

 

 

Note the speaker wiring of bridged with 2+ connected to 1- is NOT used on any cabinet that may be used for passing through the biamped signal... pretty much everything these days in the world of PA, and note the special cable or adaptor used for bridged operation.

 

That's exactly where you'd be if you took the bridged output from the bananas one one end and a NL4 on the other.

 

The "convention" is left over from the Crest days.

 

The point of the whole thing is you don't have to make a special cable to use the bridged output. If you don't know anything about anything ... a standard cable off the shelf works fine. A standard cable works fine. The fact that the 2's are paralled is thrown out by every speaker cab that I can think of ... it just becomes a higher capacity cable. The whole point was to eliminate the type of problems that faced the OP. Turns out he didn't have to do anything ... it all just works.

[dboomer]

 

Neutrik NL-4 conventions do indeed exist, and most manufacturers do follow this.: http://www.neutrik.com/client/neutrik/media/downloads/Media_1000103905.pdf

 

 

Problem with this is it doesn't match up to any speaker cabinet that I know of. You would have to re-wire your cab to make it work. Do you know of any amp that is actually wired like this (the bridged mode model)?

[agedhorse]

Any speaker specifically designed to be operated from a bridged source, that will allow the system to continue to operate if 1/2 of the bridge fails. That's the point of the connection, though it requires a special cable. The jumper between 1- & 2+ is optional and most manufacturers choose not to include it specifically so that it doesn't interfere with normal operation.

 

My comment is for NORMAL operations. Do you know of any other manufacturer that parallels the 1+/2+ and 1-/2- connections and doesn't label them (or is the PV 900 different?)

[agedhorse]

 

Why would you ever plug the output from a single amp channel into a bi-amped input? It takes two channels and then the pair need to be controlled with a x-over.

 

 

Ask your warranty stations. I serviced a church a few montha ago where this was the exact problem (symptom: no HF on cabinet), turns out it was an "upgrade" that the customer installed (I use the word installed loosely) and it was a JBL that had a biamp/full range switch. It had come set up in bia-mp position and they didn't have a clue thet the switch was even relevent. They just plugged it in and expected it to work. Fortunately there was nothing on the 2+=/2- pair because the amp was set up withoutthe paralleled connections and all it took was changing the switch which is far cheaper than a 2246 diaphram. Without the parallel cxonnection, the HF in a biamped system is automatically protected. Same comment applies with passive wedges and an biamped PA box... error in wiring won't damage HF sections.

 

Errors get made in the real world all the time... I make a good living correcting what I think are stupid bonehead errors. The users (some are your customers) do not feel the same way.

[T3]

 

Why would you ever plug the output from a single amp channel into a bi-amped input? It takes two channels and then the pair need to be controlled with a x-over.

 

 

plenty enough boxes are active/passive switchable...

 

i'm not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs here, you just seem a little reluctant to accept the potential for incompatibility. i, for one, would also like/expect to see a pin-out marked on the amp chassis, how often in real life is the manual "just there"? not often enough, whether it would have the answer or not.

 

*edit* agedhorse beat me to it, point still stands...

[dboomer]

 

My comment is for NORMAL operations. Do you know of any other manufacturer that parallels the 1+/2+ and 1-/2- connections and doesn't label them (or is the PV 900 different?)

 

 

Crest Pro series amps, for one