Cupping the Mic ... My Approach, What's Yours?

[jrlaudio]

Hi All,

 

Here is an issue we can all relate to, I think. For some it's not a big deal, for others it can be the most frustrating thing you experience. Here's my thinking ...

 

I here the complaint from many a sound tech at all levels. "Why do the artists cup the mic, ... it sounds terrible" or " ... I can't stop the feedback" or "... it's gonna damage the mic". The latter is one I heard last night from a soundguy in a club.

 

At first when I saw this "technique" beginning to happen, I thought "wow ... that's some crummy technique right there". Until I began to understand the reasons why this was being done. Firstly, let's discount the types who just don't understand anything technical and don't get that the sound goes into the ball, or vocalists who have never used a mic very often. This is something one can't do anything about except maybe educate the vocalist.

 

Now we come to the primary offenders, the rap/metal guys. What I have learned is whether or not the vocalist is an amateur or a top pro who knows as much about sound as I do ... they will do it. Why? For the tone it gives. A muddled, honky, distorted megaphone mess that expresses an emotion. This expression is no different than a vocalist who uses "proper technique" for phrasing purposes. Cupping is another form of phrasing. And it's a phrasing technique that isn't going to go away for a while, considering the impact Rap has made and forms like Screamo, Emo, Death Metal, Hardcore, etc being so prevalent now in Pop music.

 

Now all you guys out there mixing in nightclubs, bars and some smaller regional companies are all dealing with this issue very, very often. And you may not have nor are you able to afford all the cool toys and microphones like the big boys have to play with, right? So what do you?

 

Well here let's give some common examples. A nightclub that hold about 300-500 people. The bar owns the rig. You've got a bunch of 58's, a Mackie (ack!) or an A&H mix-wiz or maybe something even bigger like a 2400 series. Maybe you've actually got comps for your channel inserts. Well you've got all you really need to deal with this.

 

Now ... I'm not gonna get into the whole issue of how to "properly" set your input levels or exact numbers to look for. I realize everybody has slightly different ways of getting to the same place. Discussions about gain structure, proper feedback suppression and things like that are outside the scope of this post. This is more about approach or "mind set" and less about technicalities.

 

First thing is input level on the console. Now most of you who use the same rig in the same room all the time know, you have a normal position you use for your input level on vocal microphones. It varies, but I am pretty sure not more then 4-6db either way, if that much. In this case go towards your lower level. Now, if you have a compressor inserted you can add downward compression as you like, remembering your lower than normal input setting. Now make sure you have enough make-up gain on the compressor to get things "back to normal" in the channel. This works really good for those guys who switch from singing to "cup screaming" and back to singing. That's it for dealing with levels.

 

But tone (freq response) is another issue seriously compromised by this technique of vocalizing. By cupping the mic the vocalist produces a resonant chamber for one thing. Two things happen. First the vocal sounds hollow or honky. Second you may find you can't control feedback well anymore. The former being what the vocalist is looking for either intentionally or intuitively, the latter being a big problem for you, the vocalist and the audience. As a good rule of thumb, this "resonance" will manifest itself in most cases somewhere between 900hz to 1.5K, so if you're doing monitors from the FOH position, adjust your monitor EQ by reducing these frequencies down by some amount, which will vary depending on the situation. For FOH leave the channel EQ in your normal vocal setting you prefer, unless you are getting feedback from the FOH as well. And now learn to live with the sound of a cupped mic. It's what the artist wants and what the audience anticipates. Just make sure its controlled and doesn't runaway on ya!

 

Always keep it in the back of your mind that cupping a mic will effect the pattern of the mic. And does so in an unknown, unpredictable and variable way. Just note it, you can't really change that fact.

 

Dealing with this is a matter of philosophy, methodology and your approach to the musical genre you're working. Trying to inform a vocalist he's not using the mic properly is like telling a drummer to change his whole practiced technique and play with much lighter sticks to lower his volume. It ain't gonna happen. At least not that night. And if it does, the musicians will be uncomfortable and it will most likely negatively impact their performance. In my opinion, that's a cardinal rule broken; a sound tech making a band perform poorly by degrading their "comfort zone" to suit his own needs. No, no, no!

 

We need to adjust to the artists needs, not the other way around. I don't think Les Paul ever envisioned people playing his guitars to make them sound like the guys in Metallica. But engineers and technicians have adapted to this unconventional use of guitars and amps. They found appropriate methodology once they came to terms with the creative reasons for it. (It's funny how we all argue about the best mic or technique to get overdriven, distorted, improperly used gear to sound "sweet" or "sing" and that's what we all call good guitar tone ) We should never judge how or why a vocalist uses a microphone in an "unconventional" manner for the same reason. It's a creative thing we must accommodate, not stifle.

 

Once I came around to this mind set, I found I no longer had a problem with this mic technique.

 

What's your thinking on this often talked about topic?

Is there an experience you want to share?

 

Cheers,

 

John LeVasseur

[guitarharv52]

I don't cup a mic as a technique but I will cup it when setting up to see if the monitors are going to feedback.

[dboomer]

Yep ... once you cross the threshold between what's technically correct and what's artistic, all bets are off.

 

I sit in airports a lot and I'm sure the employees at the counter all cup the mics because they can't hear themselves. Well cupping the mic does raise the average level ... but it makes the result unintelligible. Great ... now it's loud but we can't understand a word. I'll bet if they all had monitors they would stop cupping the mics.

 

btw ... this has been going on for a long time. Find an old picture of Jim Morrison.

[tom_s252]

I'm not sure they're all thinking about sound/tone as much as this; surely lots of people just cup the mic because it's what 50 Cent does on MTV? It's an imitative hand gesture just like all the rest, not a sonic decision.

[agedhorse]

Interesting perspective and pretty reasonable take IMO.

 

My big gripe is when there are expectations that conflict with the technique. Fortunately, the results are the same pretty much on all systems so eventually they have to accept the limitations.

 

Some of the cupping is, IMO, due to emulating their rap heros and not for sound reasons.

[jrlaudio]

I would certainly agree with Rap, especially at the club level. But I have noticed with many metal guys, there is some intuitive, organic manipulation of the microphone to achieve different tonality. The mic as an instrument? Maybe. I don't know.

 

JRL

[Crownman]

I'd say that 99.9% of the people I've ever seen don't cup because of a technique they're trying to use. They do it out of imitation to look cool. Almost every singer I've worked with that cupped the mic has asked me why their voice sounds so thin and nasty coming out of the mains & monitors. I use that opportunity to literally show them the difference in the sound. After that they usually make a conscious effort to not cup the mic.

[jrlaudio]

Now see! That's interesting. Up here in New York the local scene and music must be different. It usually goes the other way. After giving my lesson, the guys come back and explain "the what they are doing and why". Interesting.

 

JRL

 

I was down in San Antonio with O'2L a year or so ago. It was a beautiful venue, but the name eludes me right now. Had something to do with the train or station?

[Crownman]

 

Now see! That's interesting. Up here in New York the local scene and music must be different. It usually goes the other way. After giving my lesson, the guys come back and explain "the what they are doing and why". Interesting. JRL I was down in San Antonio with O'2L a year or so ago. It was a beautiful venue, but the name eludes me right now. Had something to do with the train or station?

 

 

 

It sounds like you were at Sunset Station.

[Craig Vecchione]

I think the OP assumes (based on this and a post in another thread about bluegrass bands) that because someone complains here, they they also complain to the bands or artists when something stupid is done or said. IME this is almost never the case with a reasonable sound person. This is the place to bitch and whine about artists or band members. On stage is not. I think anyone that's been around the block more than once knows this.

 

The only cases I've read in this forum of anyone mouthing off to an artist were in the case of an extremely vocal asshat who starts giving the person crap, and often in a personal manner. IMO all bets are off when it's made personal....smoke 'em if ya got 'em.

[fishmanrod]

 

I think the OP assumes (based on this and a post in another thread about bluegrass bands) that because someone complains here, they they also complain to the bands or artists when something stupid is done or said. IME this is almost never the case with a reasonable sound person. This is the place to bitch and whine about artists or band members. On stage is not. I think anyone that's been around the block more than once knows this. The only cases I've read in this forum of anyone mouthing off to an artist were in the case of an extremely vocal asshat who starts giving the person crap, and often in a personal manner. IMO all bets are off when it's made personal....smoke 'em if ya got 'em.

 

 

1000+ !!!!

 

I have learned the hard way that to get a call back as a sound guy your whole purpose is to completely remove all the burden of sound from the artist, so they can perform the best they can without worrying about sound. They want to feel warm and fuzzy about you, and trust you. Your the fixit man!

 

That being said, yep, I fough cupped mic syndrome with my band's last singer. Sometimes it would take 45 minutes to ring everything out so he did not have any feedback issues. In small clubs, it would be 30 minutes with the monitor eq and monitor positions, and the rest with the mains. But the upside is he could go nuts on stage, do anything with the mic, NO FEEDBACK and the audience loved it. Wish this had been posted 3 years ago, would have saved me a lot of heartache! Agree with the OP 100%!

 

And don't get me started about guitarists that MUST point their amp at the audience, even though it is miced. When will THEY ever learn?

 

Cheers!

[Craig Vecchione]

 

1000+ !!!! I have learned the hard way that to get a call back as a sound guy your whole purpose is to completely remove all the burden of sound from the artist, so they can perform the best they can without worrying about sound. They want to feel warm and fuzzy about you, and trust you. Your the fixit man! That being said, yep, I fough cupped mic syndrome with my band's last singer. Sometimes it would take 45 minutes to ring everything out so he did not have any feedback issues. In small clubs, it would be 30 minutes with the monitor eq and monitor positions, and the rest with the mains. But the upside is he could go nuts on stage, do anything with the mic, NO FEEDBACK and the audience loved it. Wish this had been posted 3 years ago, would have saved me a lot of heartache! Agree with the OP 100%! And don't get me started about guitarists that MUST point their amp at the audience, even though it is miced. When will THEY ever learn? Cheers!

 

 

Point being that as sound guy, if the artist has less than ideal practices, the longer the time it takes to get equivalent or in many cases, lesser, sound quality for the performance. If they recognize and verbalize a problem and wish a solution, personally I'll do whatever I can to help solve it. If they don't, then I do what I can within the limits of the day.

 

And that's all we're really talking about...we have limits to what can be done, and we work within them. Later we can bitch and moan and discuss and kvetch these war stories. During the gig, it's all business.

[Mogwix]

 

And don't get me started about guitarists that MUST point their amp at the audience, even though it is miced. When will THEY ever learn?

 

But.. but... how will the audience see the logos on their cool expensive equipment??

 

People tend to hear with their eyes... it's weird stuff.

 

In regards to cupping the mic: IME the audix OM series (specifically the OM7 and the OM6) are very good at maintaining a clean response when cupped... since I believe the singer isn't actually cupping the ball of the mic (like they would on a 58 for example), but rather the metal casing behind the ball. I've mixed rap and metal acts with singers that cupped the mic something fierce, and there was only a minor change in response that I noticed in extreme cases. My singer comments that his vocals are the clearest and cleanest sounding when he uses my OM7 as opposed to any other mic... since he tends to cup the mic hard as well.

[6Imzadi]

My singer cups his mic on occasion, but then he hears his voice thin out and that reminds him what I told him about cupping. He stops it on his own now.

[oscarzacosta]

how about the "thumb on bottom of ball" mic technique?

 

I hate the cupping thing but depending on the act but I have occasionally used the "sharp swat on the beezer" technique to cure the problem.

[TimmyP]

They need to invent a mic that senses cupping, and sends a wireless signal to a relay that can mute the singer's monitor.

[Tony S.]

This has been around awhile, but still effective!

 

Here

[Craig Vecchione]

They need to invent a mic that senses cupping, and sends a wireless signal to a relay that can mute the singer's monitor.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of a capacative discharge device.

 

 

Phantom-powered, of course.

[Dogoth]

I was thinking more along the lines of a capacative discharge device. Phantom-powered, of course.

 

Nice!

[witesol]

 

But.. but... how will the audience see the logos on their cool expensive equipment?? People tend to hear with their eyes... it's weird stuff.

 

I know you were only joking since nearly all of the audience members don't know anything about brand except for Fender and a couple others...they wouldn't know a Squier from a custom shop Strat. Only other musicians/soundmen care...and they never like another band anyhow;).

 

My experience with singers cupping the mic has been that none of them do it because of some sound/production value, but think it looks cool. Of course I tend to work more with bands and artists that do sing well. So I always make it known that they are degrading the sound of their voice when they do that...and making my job more difficult

[Ear Abuser]

 

I was thinking more along the lines of a capacative discharge device

 

 

Something like this?