Rehearsal PA Help

[Drumstix61]

Hi,

 

Long time reader and fan of this hallowed forum.

 

1st post.And need advice.

 

Specs.

 

2 Yamaha 115 Monitors RMS=400 Watts each

2 Carvin 112 Monitors RMS=175 Watts each

1 Carvin 400 watt Rms Monitor amp

1 Carvin 12 channel mixer

1 Behringer 31 Band Dual EQ with Feedback Destroy

2 Yamaha DX Sound Processors

1 BlueTube 2 Mic PreAmp

1 DBX NoiseGate/Compressor/Enhancer

 

When I was young I may have killed for this.And yes,I know we are underpowered.

 

My guitar player thinks he knows how to run a sound system.

 

It's very different than a guitar system.

 

He believes every frequency shown by the "FeedBack Eliminator" should be "eliminated"....

 

So our Graphic looks like a curve,

with him killing ALL the Mid's?

 

This is wrong,right?

 

He totally kills the mids.

 

From what I read,only 5 or 6 frequencies need to be cut.

 

Tips on how you would run this are greatly welcomed.

 

We have "Studio Modded" it with Foam and Insulating materials

 

I also sent my singer and guitar player this to help;

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=406403

 

 

and this;

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=459652

 

but they don't read...

 

 

Basically,

If I can send them an e-mail of this,if you choose to help,

they can read it.

I can't freekin teach them....

You can lead a horse to water,but you can't make em' drink.

 

I'll post pics when I can.It's a 16 x 24 room.

 

Cheers,Stixx

[twostone]

Is this your guitarist system or is it yours?

[Craig Vecchione]

The correct way to use the feedback killers is to reduce the brightest slider until all of the lights are at roughly equal brightness. Only do this for a few sliders, otherwise you'll kill the mixes tone. There's only so much gain you can get out of a system.

 

The Yamaha Club speakers are 200 watts RMS, not 400. This is a common misunderstanding of Yamaha's specs, since they list program and peak power, instead of rms and program.

[Drumstix61]

 

Is this your guitarist system or is it yours?

 

 

Hi TwoStone and thanxs for the reply.

 

DOESN'T MATTER

 

It is OUR SYSTEM.

And I need to make it,make us, sound the best it can.

 

Any more recommendations/tweaks I can try?

 

Thanks guys.

[Drumstix61]

Copy that Craig and thanks man!

I am sending your post to him now...

 

 

 

 

 

The correct way to use the feedback killers is to reduce the brightest slider until all of the lights are at roughly equal brightness. Only do this for a few sliders, otherwise you'll kill the mixes tone. There's only so much gain you can get out of a system. The Yamaha Club speakers are 200 watts RMS, not 400. This is a common misunderstanding of Yamaha's specs, since they list program and peak power, instead of rms and program.

 

Negative;

I don't have Club's,

I have the "Stage" series

My monitors are the 400 watt RMS ones.

I know RMS and Program and Peak.

However,I do copy "brightest slider" on the Feedback .

 

Thanks M8!!

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Negative; I don't have Club's, I have the "Stage" series My monitors are the 400 watt RMS ones.

 

 

Stage?? Do you mean Stage PAS? Got a link to these anywhere? The Club's are their "best" and the latest model, Club V, handle 250w rms.

[Gary in NJ]

 

So our Graphic looks like a curve, with him killing ALL the Mid's?

 

 

Yes, the smiley face.

 

It's always best to start with a flat line and CUT offending (feedback for monitors, poor tone for FOH) frequencies. If done right, it probably wont look like a smiley face.

[tlbonehead]

Stage?? Do you mean Stage PAS? Got a link to these anywhere? The Club's are their "best" and the latest model, Club V, handle 250w rms.

Zackly!

[Hootchapappy]

Hay, dont sweat it. I can understand and we all had to start somewhere. At least you have some knowledgable people on here willing to help out. When I first started out, there was no such thing as internet.....

 

Equalizers and their function are misunderstood by most beginners, and that's perfectly ok. Here are a few things you can do to give yourself an upper hand on the situation.

 

First, take the equalizer completely out of the chain (completely unhook it from the system). Dont just bypass it, take it all the way out. Now then, flatten or neutralize your EQ settings on the mixer. Just to give you an example of your system, play some quality music through the system so you can hear what your PA truly sounds like straight up and without all the other bells and whisltes plugged into it. Be sure you arent using something recorded from the 60's and 70's. Those recordings are outdated as for the qualities we have in comparison today. Remember, we didnt have all that overkill bumping and literally moving walls and killing cars...... hehehe.

 

Listen real close to the actual tone qualities coming from the system and try to remember it. No, recording it wont help. Try using a few different artists just to give you a referance point.

 

Now then, put the EQ back into the system (plug it all back in). It shouldnt be hard, it's only a few cables. Flatten out the EQ PRIOR to doing anything else and this includes not playing music until AFTER the EQ is flattened out (neutralized). While it is flattened, play some of the exact same tunes you put through the system previously as the referance music. After you have an idea of what it sounds like, then, hit the bypass button to see if there are any changes. Normally with the higher dollar EQ's, you wouldnt hear any difference in the tone qualities. Some of the lower priced EQ's you will hear possibly some difference. But thats ok. Now then, undo the bypass button so the EQ will be functioning again. With what you have just done, you can now hear the difference in what the EQ is doing for the system. We call it "coloring" the sound if it does change any tones even though the sliders havent been moved yet. Did you hear a difference? In your case, probably so, but that's ok. We're not working with a million dollar system here.

 

An EQ is normally used only to remove feedback frequencies. When using live mics, if you hear feedback, find the frequency (slider) that is causing the problem and lower it as little as possible until the feedback is gone. Removing too much might hurt your sound more than you want. Be sure you find the right one because it can be not only confusing but misleading too. It is very possible to grab the wrong frequency (just above or just below the problem frequency). So if you think you found the right one, put it back and try again to see if the one just above or just below works better at solving the problem by not having to remove quite as much.

 

Once you are a little comfortable with that, now you can start using the EQ to adjust a few things to sound better. It's ok to experiment around a little, but remember, having to boost any frequency is only showing a lacking in your PA system. It's ok to boost something just a little, but overkill can hurt your equipment and mostly your speakers if you arent careful.

 

It takes a little time to become accustomed to hearing the differences on the frequencies. You will eventually find yourself telling someone to play a note on the guitar that is equal to the pitch that is feeding back and then finding and pulling it down on the EQ. In a lot of situations, you will notice that a lot of sound techs simply cut off (low pass) the frequencies above 12Khz or so. And the same thing with frequencies below 40Hz. When cutting everything below a certain frequency, that is called "High Pass" or high pass filtering. Anything above a certain frequency is called "Low Pass" or low pass filtering.

 

I hope this helps, if not, just give me a shout and I will try to help further.

 

Have a great day!

 

P.S. I'll try not to confuse you anymore with the usual .....

[Hootchapappy]

P.S.

 

I forgot to mention, anytime you change out a piece of equipment i.e. power amps, EQ's, mixing boards, effects, etc.., your sound qualities will change. Just as 2 different brands of speakers will sound differently, the same goes for all other equipment used in the chain of equipment. If you push something beyond it's limits, something is going to break, burn out, or just get messed up in general. Always be careful of what you do and try not to get carried away with the limits or abilities of the equipment.

 

BTW, some people call what i mentioned previously "high cut, low cut". Some of the terminology can be confusing at first, but the more you hear or use it, the quicker it is understood by you.