Members pktaskes Posted February 9, 2008 Members Share Posted February 9, 2008 I just got a pair of Polk RTi12's and they can take a lot of juice. I asked a question over at the Polk forum and it seems pro audio amps don't get a generally good review for home use. I just was wondering why. Figured there's an easy answer (?) They pointed me here: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61705 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted February 9, 2008 Members Share Posted February 9, 2008 It's always amazed me how people can say there are these huge differences in sound from one amp to another : a certain amp sounds much fuller, really harsh or way brighter or more natural than another etc... Although there may be slight differences in how amplifiers sound given their different designs, the quality of components and how many filters/paths the signal goes before reaching the speakers etc... The differences should not be all that noticeable in normal listening. An amplifier's only job is to amplify a signal, not to modify it. If one amplifier has bass and treble controls or a loudness switch or high pass or low pass filters, then OF COURSE the sound will be different from one amp to another. I have used pro amplifiers, receivers, integrated home audio amplifers - all with home speakers and have never heard a noticeable difference in sound when all were set flat. With a pro amp however, you will need a pre-amp (with integrated home amps as well). If your pre is a mixer, well that mixer will be adding some noise as you put up your channel and master levels. There is also the possibility of fan noise from a pro amp. Try a studio amp that has no fan. Many studios use large commercial amps because of speaker power requirements. If a serious degradation in sound was the result, I doubt studios would be using them. Just my opinion, Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 9, 2008 Members Share Posted February 9, 2008 Fresh out of college I worked for a company designing high end audio amps. What a bunch of egocentric folks, it was all about who could do something goofier and more obtuse than somebody else. The fancier the system the smaller the d**k syndrome. If they only know that some of their fancy products WERE pro audio products rebadged or repackaged, it would burst their bubbles. The functional and performance differences are virtually zero, but they THINK and BELIEVE there are real differences and that's what drives the $100/ft speaker cable, the $300 power cords etc. When faced with true double-blind testing their accuracy is generally no better than a complete guess. Also, in some cases, the high end product is grossly inferior in terms of glaring faults and mostly in terms of reliability and robustness. Where some pro audio amps got a bad reputation is the sound of poorly designed VI limiting because of poor impedance curves on some esoteric speakers. These are the same faults that tend to destroy the high end amps though, so neither amps perform well in these circumstances. The pro amps don't tend to go up in flames though. Beware of the high power ratings the home audio speakers claim, most are horribly optimistic IME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted February 9, 2008 Members Share Posted February 9, 2008 SO all this means: A super cheap Behringer amp will sound the same as a high end Crown amp?? Well...you guys DID say that there is no difference in sound quality if everything is set to flat. Yes? I find it hard to believe that a high end Crown will sound just like a cheap Behringer amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moody Posted February 9, 2008 Members Share Posted February 9, 2008 SO all this means: A super cheap Behringer amp will sound the same as a high end Crown amp?? Well...you guys DID say that there is no difference in sound quality if everything is set to flat. Yes?I find it hard to believe that a high end Crown will sound just like a cheap Behringer amp. The difference between the crown and the behringer of the same wattage rating will be the quality control. I would expect the Crown to still be functioning after a year of hard use, the behringer wouldn't surprise me if it stopped after a week or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted February 9, 2008 Members Share Posted February 9, 2008 The difference between the crown and the behringer of the same wattage rating will be the quality control. I would expect the Crown to still be functioning after a year of hard use, the behringer wouldn't surprise me if it stopped after a week or two. Ok...let's forget about the behringer will stop working after a week or 10 years. Just answer the question. Pls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moody Posted February 9, 2008 Members Share Posted February 9, 2008 Ok...let's forget about the behringer will stop working after a week or 10 years. Just answer the question. Pls. At the same (not inflated) power rating at the same volume they should sound virtually identical. At least that's what I've gathered. Different classes (A B AB H) might sound a little different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pro1-54 Posted February 9, 2008 Members Share Posted February 9, 2008 Bryston seems to be well respected in both areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted February 9, 2008 Members Share Posted February 9, 2008 SO all this means: A super cheap Behringer amp will sound the same as a high end Crown amp?? Well...you guys DID say that there is no difference in sound quality if everything is set to flat. Yes?I find it hard to believe that a high end Crown will sound just like a cheap Behringer amp. Everything being flat and volume (gain) adjusted to be equal on both units, YES both should sound basically the same. Differences will often show up in sound when the amplifiers are pushed to their maximum and or at low impedances. Some will also react and/or sound better or different when pushed into limiting or clipping. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted February 9, 2008 Members Share Posted February 9, 2008 SO all this means: A super cheap Behringer amp will sound the same as a high end Crown amp?? Well...you guys DID say that there is no difference in sound quality if everything is set to flat. Yes?I find it hard to believe that a high end Crown will sound just like a cheap Behringer amp. Yes ... that what it means. As long as you stay in the linear operating range of the amp that's what I'd expect. Most people here constantly run outside the linear limits of their amp ... then the differences become audible. There are probably a number of differences between the amps ... reliability, thermal stability, protection schemes, physical factors, warranty, etc ... but sound quality ... again I have to stress, in the linear range (that point where NONE of the peaks exceed the rated peak output) should "sound" identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 9, 2008 Members Share Posted February 9, 2008 Don and I are in complete agreement here! Provided there are no gross defects in an amplifier's design, the amplifiers will sound virtually the same. Now there are some amps with defective designs (both home and pro alike) but it's the defects that are responsible for the differences rather than the basic amp topologies themselves. The chief differences are how the amp reacts under overdriven conditions (many/most home amps do not include clip limiters) and how the amp responds when driven hard under low impedance reactive loads. At normal home levels, with adequate power, even with mid 80 dB/1W/1M speakers, the differences are so minor as to be below the radar. Also, most home amps do not have balanced inputs, something that I find strangly odd since differential signal transmit/receive is vastly superior when dealing with ground loop noise. Yes, home audio does suffer from this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Not Serial Posted February 9, 2008 Members Share Posted February 9, 2008 i would have o point out a major difference in consumer amps and pro amps. most pro amps have fans in them that are very noticeable. not all, but most. i wouldnt want to use my plx2's in my home although the fans in those are somewhat quieter than the fans in my crown amps. my favorite home amp is a marantz 1030. low power for sure but enough to be very, very loud in your home. and no fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wayward91 Posted February 9, 2008 Members Share Posted February 9, 2008 well the speakers the guy is using have "Nominal Impedance 8 ohms" so they arnt likely to be a challenging load are they?what you guys seem to be implying from what ive picked up is, if you are in the operating limits and the amp isn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted February 9, 2008 Members Share Posted February 9, 2008 I have a home studio/home theatre. I use a Crown DC 300 for my stereo studio monitors and 3 more DC 300s + an Altec Beast (sub) for my suround system. All Pro audio amps. Sounds Great. One other thing to mention is that nominal line level for pro audio is usualy +4db and home audio is -10db but most Pro audio amps can still be driven to full output with a -10 input (but check the specs before you buy). I'd agree that for most Home audio applications you would want convection cooled amps (unless you're extravagent enough to put your amps in another room). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 9, 2008 Members Share Posted February 9, 2008 well the speakers the guy is using have "Nominal Impedance 8 ohms" so they arnt likely to be a challenging load are they?what you guys seem to be implying from what ive picked up is, if you are in the operating limits and the amp isn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted February 9, 2008 Members Share Posted February 9, 2008 Yes, correct. Assuming the 10 watt amps from the TV are not bandwidth limited for the TV application. The sound could easily be pre-eq'd as well in a TV. I'd guess they'd be cutting of everything below 50hz - or higher in smaller TVs. Often, those little amps are run at lower than typical impedances right? I have noticed in powered subs for example, they will use a 4ohm or even 2 ohm speaker to draw the most current possible from the built-in amp. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 9, 2008 Members Share Posted February 9, 2008 The sound could easily be pre-eq'd as well in a TV. I'd guess they'd be cutting of everything below 50hz - or higher in smaller TVs.Often, those little amps are run at lower than typical impedances right? I have noticed in powered subs for example, they will use a 4ohm or even 2 ohm speaker to draw the most current possible from the built-in amp. Al Yes, hence my cavet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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