Members sickman Posted December 29, 2008 Members Share Posted December 29, 2008 I never had an issue with this before because I never sang. Now, I'm singing a song or two per set and I cannot hear myself in the monitor in front of me. Some of the time I can hear the other guys singing... other times I can't hear them. I can never hear them as clear as I like. Maybe we don't have enough power? We use a 400 watt powered mixer combined with a 150 watt (I think) power amp. I think the mixer is for the vocals and the power amp is used for the instruments and monitors. They set it up so that the instruments are not coming through the monitors -- only the vocals. I've mentioned I can't hear myself.... or the other singers, but no one seems to know how to fix the problem. We play small to medium size bars and, IMO, aren't too loud. I have also been told the vocals are sometimes not clear or loud enough coming through the mains. For mains we use a pair of Yamaha club series and another pair of generic speakers (I think made by pro audio/pro city)... they maybe subs. They don't have a horn like the yamaha, but a pair of 15 inch speakers vertically stacked. I realize my description is pretty bad, but any advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zelmobeaty Posted December 29, 2008 Members Share Posted December 29, 2008 If only vocals are going through your monitors, you should expect to hear everything well. Your additional comment about the mains not being too clear might indicate that you guys just need general help/experience running your overall PA. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted December 29, 2008 Members Share Posted December 29, 2008 Figure out what you have, learn how to use it correctly then see if it meets your needs. Your description is too vague to provide any real advice, but it does sound potentially like you're underpowered. More details are required. We have four monitors each powered with 200 watts and we can get vocals stupidly loud on stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sickman Posted December 29, 2008 Author Members Share Posted December 29, 2008 I wish I had more details. The guy who is the bandleader doesn't know what he's doing. We've got another guy who knows more, but has stated he either wants to do all the sound (I'd recommend this) or not be involved at all because he doesn't want to deal with the bandleader while doing this.... I know nothing about it other than how it sounds. I think I am going to recommend the one guy gets more involved and control everything. He's got some additional power amps (I think either two 500 watters or 1000 watters) and we've got a 16 channel mackie board. Should be more than enough... it might be we're just not running it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 29, 2008 Members Share Posted December 29, 2008 You need somebody (knowledgable) who will take responsibility for the sound since you guys are not in that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted December 29, 2008 Members Share Posted December 29, 2008 The real question is how loud is the stage volume? All things being equal, the stage volume has the most impact on whether or not the monitors can be heard. Try lowering the stage volume and see if that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sickman Posted December 29, 2008 Author Members Share Posted December 29, 2008 The real question is how loud is the stage volume? All things being equal, the stage volume has the most impact on whether or not the monitors can be heard. Try lowering the stage volume and see if that helps. This is something to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members herbie d Posted December 29, 2008 Members Share Posted December 29, 2008 When you say,"check,1,2,3" through the mike and no music is being played, how loud is the monitor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sickman Posted December 29, 2008 Author Members Share Posted December 29, 2008 When you say,"check,1,2,3" through the mike and no music is being played, how loud is the monitor? It seems decently loud and clear. It's almost like it gets less loud as the night goes on, perhaps because we are getting louder? I actually typed up a rather long e-mail about our peformances this weekend and the things Ithink we need to work on. I should have stated my concern with the overall sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted December 29, 2008 Members Share Posted December 29, 2008 Another possibility is your instruments are bleeding into the vocal mics and getting fed through the monitors too. Be careful how you have all the mics and speakers aimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 29, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted December 29, 2008 From everything I've read so far, it sounds like your stage volume is probably a lot louder than you may think, and that you're all turning up and playing harder (read: louder) as the night progresses. This is an extremely common problem. Lower stage volume is the key to keeping amps from bleeding into vocal mics. The mic doesn't know it's only for your vocals, and it 'hears' whatever is there, be it your voice, or the guitar amp behind it, or the drummer pounding 5 feet away. No matter how loud you're able to make your monitor, if your vocal mic is getting a lot of stage noise, you're turning up the stage noise as well as your voice. Obviously that won't ever work, so you have to either isolate the stage noise by shielding the drummer (or using electronic drums) and using iso-boxes for amps (or going direct to the PA instead of using amps), or you have to lower your stage volume to meet the capabilities of the system and the setup of it. Guess which option is cheaper and easier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 29, 2008 Members Share Posted December 29, 2008 It seems decently loud and clear. It's almost like it gets less loud as the night goes on, perhaps because we are getting louder? I actually typed up a rather long e-mail about our peformances this weekend and the things Ithink we need to work on. I should have stated my concern with the overall sound.What's everybody using for a backline, what model are the monitors and how many. 150 watts is in no way enough power to push 3-4 monitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted December 29, 2008 Members Share Posted December 29, 2008 I wish people would be required to put their actual location in the "location" field. Where are you? Maybe there's a forum member who is close to you who'd be willing to check the system out, but "lost between here and there" isn't much help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whataracket Posted December 29, 2008 Members Share Posted December 29, 2008 In my opinion, anyone who takes singing seriously needs to fully understand how the entire PA system works. That doesn't mean you need to be the soundman if someone else is available and good at it, but it will allow you to speak the language, recognize and express what is going on, and get what you need from the monitor system to support your singing. The first place I would start is with how a mixer with aux sends works, then I'd learn to use channel eq and a graphic or parametric equalizer to figure out what I like a monitor to sound like (typically "flat" is not ideal for a vocal monitor). Mixer manuals or the Yamaha sound reinforcement book are good resources. Monitor placement and mic technique are also very important. Get your own microphone, and pick a model that complements your voice and technique. Next, figure out what you need to be near, and what you can't stand to be near on stage. You need a good pitch reference instrument, which typically will be your own guitar or piano. Everything else you want pointed away from you and some distance away if possible. This is at least as important as monitor level and placement when it comes to hearing yourself well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sickman Posted December 29, 2008 Author Members Share Posted December 29, 2008 What's everybody using for a backline, what model are the monitors and how many. 150 watts is in no way enough power to push 3-4 monitors. I think it's got to be more than 150 watts... do they even make 150 watt amps? Not sure about the bassist, but I'm using an older Boogie combo and the other guitarist is using either a Peavey classic 30 or a Marshall half stack (I know). We have the same problem whether it's the Marshall or the Classic 30. Not sure about the monitors... they are Yamaha's and we use 3 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OverdrivenEL34s Posted December 30, 2008 Members Share Posted December 30, 2008 stage volume can be issue. getting good balance mix is important and make sure to work on dynamics which will also make you sound way better as aq band too. some questions i had are: what kind of mics are you guys using? when attempting to boost the vocals up louder, what happens? how do you have the eq set on the channels as well as the graphic eq (s)? do you have hipass filter available? where are the monitors placed in relation to the mics? is this problem bigger at gigs or practice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted December 30, 2008 Members Share Posted December 30, 2008 So... what kind of venues are you playing "sickman"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ed Dixon Posted December 30, 2008 Members Share Posted December 30, 2008 Consider going the in-ear route. YOu can tailor exactly what you hear and the volume. You will never have trouble hearing vocals again with a well set up in ear system. Shure PSM200 systems have two inputs. One for the overall mix (typically) and the second for you. You can personally adjust the balance between the two. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sickman Posted December 30, 2008 Author Members Share Posted December 30, 2008 We play smaller bars, probably around 50-100 people. I'm not sure about eq'ing and all that stuff since I do not touch the PA other than moving stuff around. I'm going to ask the one guy if there's anything he can do to make the vocals clearer through the monitors and hopefully he can fix it. I think he has a better understanding of how the stuff works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted December 30, 2008 Members Share Posted December 30, 2008 Shure PSM200 systems have two inputs. One for the overall mix (typically) and the second for you. You can personally adjust the balance between the two. I have a PSM200 system and have seen dozens of others using them as well. While you're right about being able to connect it up so that your mic is connected directly to the Transmitter unit and then the transmitter unit connected to the PA - I can't ever recall ever having seen anybody wire up the PSM200 in that fashion. The typical approach is connect all microphone to the board - and simply run an AUX "out" to the PSM200 transmitter - using the knob for that AUX output on each channel strip to create a mix of what will be sent to the IEM receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gn2882 Posted December 30, 2008 Members Share Posted December 30, 2008 How close are your lips to the mic? It took me forever to figure out you have to be RIGHT ON IT (lips no more than 1-2 inches) if you're having issues hearing yourself. Try it at next rehearsal and see what happens if your doing the usual 6 inches off the mic thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 31, 2008 Members Share Posted December 31, 2008 How close are your lips to the mic? It took me forever to figure out you have to be RIGHT ON IT (lips no more than 1-2 inches) if you're having issues hearing yourself. Try it at next rehearsal and see what happens if your doing the usual 6 inches off the mic thing.I've never understood why some people seem so afraid of a silly microphone. You tell them repeatedly to get right up on it and some people just won't listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ed Dixon Posted December 31, 2008 Members Share Posted December 31, 2008 For vocals it is usually done with AUX channels as you said. However for guitar and bass or keys, a direct into the PSM works well. I have a small mixer for my guitar (guitar and guitar synth), so I take a feed from this to the PSM. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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