Members monthlymixcd Posted August 27, 2009 Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 $700-$800 new for that stuff... not a bad deal, but not a great one either. Gotta start somewhere, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VanR Posted August 27, 2009 Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 I just found the following on Craigslist. I'm waiting on a reply, and hopefully some pictures, but this sounds like a great deal that would get the job done.2 Tapco Thump self-powered speakers, 2 speaker poles with case, Behringer 1832FX mixer - $600.The add says they've only been used 10 times, so I'm hoping that means they are in great condition. That will work OK. I would offer somewhat less. Unfortunately we can give you ideas all we want, but it sounds like you need something today so you will be at the mercy of whatever GC has in stock at this time. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members saberry Posted August 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 Yeah, I just priced the components and that's okay, but not great for used gear. Oh well, I'll post back with an update of what I buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members monthlymixcd Posted August 27, 2009 Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 Make sure to ask what the GC and their local "competitor" have used. My local GC has a nice little yamaha 12ch. mixer for $75 that they took on trade-in as well as a demo B-52 Matrix 1000 system for $500. They hate used/demo stuff sitting around so make them an offer on whatever they have... you might be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hawkeye Posted August 27, 2009 Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 Or just run the musicians through a small mixer and then feed the Bose gear that signal... You would think this could work.. BUT... an acoustic duo came to our church with exactly this set up. 2 vox and 2 acoustic guitars thru small mixer to the Bose. It was probably the worst sound I ever heard at our church. Our workman-like Yamaha MG32/14 board / QSC RMX2450 / (and the weak point here) old EV "theater" speakers) sounded miles better. Granted, the whole mess might have been due to user error in the setup, ( I certainly hope so) because the Bose sounded lifeless, with no dynamics, squashed, thin and brittle sound with little bottom end on the guitars. It was having a lot of difficulty filling our 350 seat auditorium. I was underwhelmed. A peavey box mixer with a couple of Impulse 1012's would have kicked the Bose's @$$ or a Yamaha EMX mixer and a couple of Club speakers would have been miles better. I know there are a lot of fans of the Bose L system stuff, but I think you've got to use it as it's designed to be used, and for smaller spaces only. Summing multiple inputs thru a small mixer up front of the unit doesn't get the job done. IMHO My main board is a Soundcraft M12 but I also have a Peavey XR696F box mixer (used) on layaway at a local store for $400 Cdn. ($370 US). My Impulse 1012's (used) only cost me $400 Cdn and they are very capable FOH tops that can be used in a high-performance portable system. You could buy some used pieces like these and still have enough left over for microphones and stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry007 Posted August 27, 2009 Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 +1 for getting a single quality powered speaker (QSC HPR12, JBL PRX512s are some favorites around here) and a small mixer (Yamaha, Mackie). If/when you outgrow it or decide to invest more, it's a solid foundation for a "full" small PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rwhealey Posted August 27, 2009 Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 How about: 2 EV Zx1 ($500)1 QSC Gx3 ($300)1 Used Mackie 1202 ($150)1 Audiopile R2UE-14 Case ($95) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members monthlymixcd Posted August 27, 2009 Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 ... might have been due to user error in the setup, ( I certainly hope so) ... I'm thinking user error... I love the Impulse 1012s, too... but they sound best LOUD... and I'd never run them without subs. Do those two things and now you're talking a decent power amp(s)... and a monitor rig for the performers as well... and a better mixer... the know-how to hook it all up and run it... and a lot more than $1000. +1,000,000 to the single GOOD powered speaker/small mixer route... that's heading down the right road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hawkeye Posted August 27, 2009 Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 I'm thinking user error...I love the Impulse 1012s, too... but they sound best LOUD... and I'd never run them without subs. Do those two things and now you're talking a decent power amp(s)... and a monitor rig for the performers as well... and a better mixer... the know-how to hok it all up and run it... and a lot more than $1000. OP is already renting PA's so the know-how for set-up is already assumed to be available, thereby negating the primary attribute of the Bose L systems (ease of set-up for noobs). The Impulses still sound good at lower volumes too. I've used them for a very polite-sounding jazz ensemble with good results. Realistically, that little Bose "sub" has no bottom end to speak of. It is electrically shelved down at 45 hz. Likely the filter starts to slope the sound off starting in the 60 hz "kick" region. Even with a -10db response @ 52 hz, the Impulses have more than enough cone area compared to the Bose sub to still push more air and kick out some SPL's in the lower end. I can't really disagree with anything you've said. My point was that there are a great many alternatives using the traditional types of set-ups without having to go to the expense and (to these ears anyway) questionable sonics of the Bose systems in large spaces with mixers up front as you have suggested. To me, it's just not a good use of that system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rbts Posted August 27, 2009 Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 Nothing you buy for $1,000 is really going to cover 200 people outside. But... think about what really would, and then buy as much of it as you can now, and the rest later. Buying the best speakers you can possibly afford is the best way to get the best sounding system... speakers make a huge difference. If her present little amp has a line out... maybe all you need is a single additional powered speaker to use as an additional power point. Or consider a bigger acoustic amp that DOES have a line out. The bigger acoustic amp might fill the bill many times, and eventually you can get an additional powered speaker to add to it when required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members monthlymixcd Posted August 27, 2009 Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 All great points! I only suggested the Bose as I thought that the OP did a good job describing the intended user... while as for the intended use... Nothing you buy for $1,000 is really going to cover 200 people outside... I guess that's the sticking point... but as stated, incrementally buying good gear for a scalable system is always a "best practice". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members saberry Posted August 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 Nothing you buy for $1,000 is really going to cover 200 people outside. I'm going to have to disagree with that statement as I've seen it done many times. My daughters vocal coach has a PA system similar to the one I've suggested that she uses for her singing group. They perform all over the place both indoor and out. She uses a powered mixer and a pair of wharfedale 15" and they do just fine for an outdoor crowd of 200. Now, if the group is really spread out, or there is a lot of competing noise, then it can become an issue, but most of the time, it sounds good and you can hear from anywhere in the audience. They play almost entirely with instrumental tracks, so I think it would do at least as well for an acoustic musician that won't need as much bass. Anyway, I'm on my way out the door. At the very least I have a number of good opinions and suggestions to keep in mind as I shop. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cappttenron Posted August 27, 2009 Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 I will throw my two cents in. I would get a Mackie ProFX8 and a good quality powered speaker. The Eons are real nice but expensive. I would go for the lower powered speaker 250 watts I think and save 200 bills. This would be a great core system to expand on and you shouldnt have more than 750 in it. It gives you the ability to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Barisaxman2000 Posted August 27, 2009 Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 200 people outside....acoustic guitar and vocals. This isn't a rock concert people. Speakers on sticks will work just fine in this environment, the suggested system will probably work just fine, although I'd suggest going powered speakers/passive mixer for ease of upgrading in the future should she continue performing and need a bigger system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boseengineer Posted August 27, 2009 Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 Nothing you buy for $1,000 is really going to cover 200 people outside.... I would say that depends on the application. Certainly not for a hard rock show but for acoustic guitar and vocals at "adequate" volumes I think that is certainly achievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted August 27, 2009 Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 Nothing you buy for $1,000 is really going to cover 200 people outside. I disagree when the act is an acoustic guitar and singer. Loud isn't required, just coverage. Most of the powered speakers suggested will easily reach 125 dbc at 3 feet. Outdoors you get a 6 db drop with a doubling of distance and the farthest away you might want a level of 75 dbc. With a crowd of 200 listening and seated that might be 10 rows of 20. Probably less than 80 feet. That's less than a 30 dbc drop to the speakers, she would only need to reach 105 dbc to accomplish that. And would only need to reach 111 dbc to cover a distance of 160 ft. A single speaker of the type being suggested would handle the job. (Assuming it's mounted above the listener's heads. If they're walking around, you will need a good tripod stand.) One more thing, if this is background music, the requirements are a lot lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members saberry Posted August 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 Okay, I'm back and contrary to what thought I was going to do...I followed the advice that most of you seemed to be giving. I did not go back to GC, but purchased from the other local retailer, Evan's Music City - great place. Anyway, after listening to the speakers demo'd, I kept coming back to the powered QSC K-12. They cranked it up and from anywhere inside the large showroom, the sound was fantastic. Granted, this is an indoor application, but at 1,000 watts, it should do well in the small venues I've mentioned. The Max SPL is 131 db and it has 75 degree coverage. I moved all around the store and the sound was very impressive from every angle. I think I may have annoyed some of the other shoppers, but hey...I wanted to hear what it sounded like at real world volume. Along with the required cables, I also bought a needed new boom mike, speaker stand and for the mixer, a Wharfedale Pro R-200; which I think will do the job nicely. For the time being, she'll use her powered amp as her monitor. The total for everything with tax was right at $1100 so I did pretty good and staying close to budget and ended up with a really good quality, high powered speaker. Thanks for nudging me in the right direction! :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Barisaxman2000 Posted August 27, 2009 Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 Cool! Enjoy the new gear and let us know how it works out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members monthlymixcd Posted August 27, 2009 Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 Great choice! I have a pair of the K10s and the Phonic version of that mixer... almost the same setup!!! (And I didn't even try to sell you on what I had... makes me feel good about my choice, too.) Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phsycobass Posted August 27, 2009 Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 Glad to hear to found some capable gear:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted August 27, 2009 Members Share Posted August 27, 2009 I heard the K10s at my local dealer thought they sounded good and you got to love the weight of the K series stuff. Should not be a problem for your daughter to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members saberry Posted August 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 28, 2009 We've been playing around with the PA this evening and it sounds really nice! We are using her powered Genz Benz Shen 60 amp as a monitor so that's a little tricky, but I think it will be easier when are have more room for separation than we do inside the house. I have another question that's really not related but you all have given good advice so I'd like to get your thoughts on one other thing. Her show tomorrow night is in our community so a good number of the people turning out will be friends and family. I'm guessing somewhere around 1/3 to 1/2 will be people we don't know, or at least that my daughter does not know. Do you think it would be appropriate to let her put out a tip jar? While I kind of agree with my wife that it might be a little odd since we know plenty of the people who will be there, I also know that if I went to see anyone else perform (who I wasn't related to), I would not think twice about seeing a tip jar. In fact, I'm usually one of the first to drop in a couple bucks because I know from watching and helping my daughter, that a lot of hard work goes into that. I also know that a lot of girls her age earn money babysitting and stuff. Instead, she spends hours practicing, at vocal lessons, and performing so it makes me feel a little selfish to think about not letting her earn some money for her effort just to avoid a little uncomfortable feeling on my part. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members allexcosta Posted August 28, 2009 Members Share Posted August 28, 2009 Do you think it would be appropriate to let her put out a tip jar? Would you tip the server of your favorite restaurant if he/she happens to be your neighbor or friend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members saberry Posted August 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 28, 2009 Would you tip the server of your favorite restaurant if he/she happens to be your neighbor or friend? Of course - good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted August 28, 2009 Members Share Posted August 28, 2009 Now your only problem will be preventing feedback. You may want to make sure you have enough cables to put that speaker up to 30' away. That will give you some flexibility. Your feedback issues will include the acoustic guitar at louder volumes. The lower you can keep the monitor, the easier it will be. (Being outdoors should also help.) Have a great gig. Tip jar off to the side and not mentioned. (Make sure it has at least a dollar bill in it to begin with.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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