Members faidlor Posted November 6, 2009 Members Share Posted November 6, 2009 I am current running my newly acquired rig in stereo mode where I have two individual left/right mixes. I'm just thinking if it would be easier to have separate mixes (one for subs and one for mid/high). So for example, I'm thinking I would take my LEFT output to EQ to LOW signal of crossover to amp to subs. Then RIGHT signal to EQ to MID/HIGH signal of crossover to amp to mid/high cabs. Is there a preference? Is one way considered "better" than the other? Just to illustrate for clarification: NowMixer L -> Ch. 1 EQ -> Ch. 1 Xover (Low & high output) -> Low & High Amp -> Left side CabsMixer R -> Ch. 2 EQ -> Ch. 2 Xover (Low & high output) -> Low & High Amp -> Right side Cabs Proposed changeMixer L -> Ch. 1 EQ -> Ch.1 Xover (Low output only ) -> Amp -> Subs Mixer R -> Ch. 2 EQ -> Ch.2 Xover (Mid/High output only) -> Amp -> Top cabs What I am thinking is with the proposed change method I could focus on mixing just the subs on channel 1 EQ and focus on mixing just mid/high for channel 2 EQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted November 6, 2009 Members Share Posted November 6, 2009 Wouldn't you be using only half or a third of your EQ's by doing that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 6, 2009 Members Share Posted November 6, 2009 no benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members faidlor Posted November 6, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 6, 2009 Ok. If it's no benefit then I will keep my stereo set up. A question on the side: What is a good technique to get vocals to cut through the mix? I do karaoke every once in a while and the last couple of weeks playing around with the rig has been tough trying to get vocals to cut through the mix. My setup is set to what was advised here by fellow HC'ers. Crossover set to about 100hz with bass about 6db above highs. EQ is set pretty flat with a touch of highs and mids added for clarity. Toughest part is getting vocals to cut through on a consistent basis. Every song takes a lot of tweeking for the vocals to come out. It's especially hard when a new singer jumps on the mic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Barisaxman2000 Posted November 6, 2009 Members Share Posted November 6, 2009 Sounds to me like you need to get friendly with your channel strip and graphic EQ's. Every vocalist is going to have a slightly different voice, and will be wildly different and inconsistent with mic technique, so you may need to make adjustment continuously. The best way to figure it out for yourself is trial and error. Make adjustments and use your ears to figure out if your changes are having the desired effect. You can get suggestions from a message board all day long, but in the end it's up to what your ears are telling about how it sounds with your gear, in the specific room you're operating in. Make BIG changes at first so that the change is obvious to your ears. If it's karaoke, most of the audience isn't going to notice anyway.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted November 6, 2009 Members Share Posted November 6, 2009 It's karaoke, each vocalist will suck in their own unique way. To start, back off the cd's volume a bit and allow the vocals to stick out, also back off on the low end too. What main speakers/amps are you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members faidlor Posted November 6, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 6, 2009 It's karaoke, each vocalist will suck in their own unique way. To start, back off the cd's volume a bit and allow the vocals to stick out, also back off on the low end too.What main speakers/amps are you using? You and others might laugh but I'm currently running a PV14 to a pair of QSC RMX 1450s powering a pair of Soundfactor 215 and Yami SW118 subs. I know speakers are not the best but like you siad, it's only karaoke. I just want to maximize results out of what I've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry007 Posted November 6, 2009 Members Share Posted November 6, 2009 What are you using for a vocal mic? Our Beta58s seem to cut through the mix better than our SM58s (though I prefer the tone of the SM58) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members faidlor Posted November 6, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 6, 2009 What are you using for a vocal mic? Our Beta58s seem to cut through the mix better than our SM58s (though I prefer the tone of the SM58) Right now I have an AKG dynamic mic. Not sure which model exactly. I also use a Samson mic which I picked up from Best Buy for $50. Not exactly your top of the line stuff. That might be where the problem lies. I've heard some great things about the Beta 58's. I'll have to try those out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 6, 2009 Members Share Posted November 6, 2009 Well, your main speakers are a poor choice for up front vocal reproduction IMO, and combined with a (likely) poor choice in microphones, you have a real challenge in this area. Your main speakers do not have a large enough horn/driver to keep up with the mid bass of your 15's, and as a resul of being inadequate, must be crossed over too high to remain present through the critical 800-2kHz region. My suggestion is to find a pair of quality 12" tops to replace your 215's. Something like the JBL MRX-512 is a place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted November 6, 2009 Members Share Posted November 6, 2009 Well, your main speakers are a poor choice for up front vocal reproduction IMO, and combined with a (likely) poor choice in microphones, you have a real challenge in this area.Your main speakers do not have a large enough horn/driver to keep up with the mid bass of your 15's, and as a resul of being inadequate, must be crossed over too high to remain present through the critical 800-2kHz region. My suggestion is to find a pair of quality 12" tops to replace your 215's. Something like the JBL MRX-512 is a place to start. +1. You might be quite surprised at the difference in clarity that a decent pair of speakers and a decent mic would make. Depending on your budget and inclination, I would suggest a pair of Yorkville Elite 210 cabs. I've placed these in a few elementary schools and they have very good vocal intelligibility (at that price point anyway). Two 10's with a horn in the middle, 600 watts program (300 RMS). The drawback is that they are mainly for vocals, little to no lower bass response, and perhaps they're out of your price range and purchase area. Lots of other good cabs out there, you might consider demoing a few. A couple of mic suggestions: Shure SM58, Sennheiser e835, beyerdynamic TX88. These are all in and around the $100 mark in U.S. dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted November 6, 2009 Members Share Posted November 6, 2009 Ok. If it's no benefit then I will keep my stereo set up.A question on the side: What is a good technique to get vocals to cut through the mix? I do karaoke every once in a while and the last couple of weeks playing around with the rig has been tough trying to get vocals to cut through the mix. My setup is set to what was advised here by fellow HC'ers. Crossover set to about 100hz with bass about 6db above highs. EQ is set pretty flat with a touch of highs and mids added for clarity. Toughest part is getting vocals to cut through on a consistent basis. Every song takes a lot of tweeking for the vocals to come out. It's especially hard when a new singer jumps on the mic. Are you using a mixer? or are you plugging the mic directly into your tops?(built-in mixer??) Mounting your mic on a stand, with a pop filter in front of it, might help keep the "mic-eaters" somewhat under control. No need to apologise for doing Karaoke. Same attention required as any other form of live entertainment, and, all the more reason to have components that will deliver quality sound and intelligibility. Sure, a lot of performances can be cheesy, but some can be surprisingly good. Proper selection of the music you're playing, can have a huge impact on giving the singer confidence and "letting go". Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members faidlor Posted November 6, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 6, 2009 Yes, I am using a mixer. Peavey PV14 mixer with built-in effects. IMO it's a nice mixer that will get the job done. Base on all your info., I do believe that the weak link comes from low end mics and main speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted November 6, 2009 Members Share Posted November 6, 2009 but I bet you could easily bring the vocals out better using your sweepable mids and a moderate boost at the appropriate frequency. Unless you are using the mids at a lower frequency to cut the mud areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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