Members Unalaska Posted January 2, 2010 Members Share Posted January 2, 2010 Would you really rent out gear to a band, unseen, no-tech to help? A band, one whose members are usually not interested in buying/maintaining gear of their own, one whose members don't have any interest whether your stuff works when in comes back... really? You can go broke playing in bar bands. There is no doubt of this. On NYE a band rented system only and I know the tech, now another band is playing sat eve (2 days later) for a whopping $75 more TOTAL than what I charged the band to dry rent the gear. Same venue, different day, different band too. Prices vary a lot and music isn't a commodity and niether is sound. There are a LOT of sound guys south of seattle and it can be frustrating making a living at this. But I do, and it comes from being consistent and working long term relationships. You also have to decide for yourself if you want to be a player or not, because not long from now you'll have to decide; play or run sound. Pick one, someone's feelings will get butthurt. If you do decide to run sound, 1st off shed all of the propriatary things your band does: in-ear for the drummer, you'll need a drum fill. Buy a trailer or trick to haul {censored} in. Get real DI's and short 1/4 cables, lots of accepted mics, matching wedges, power and eqs. Decent stands, decent board, snake that works, cables that don't short out. etc etc etc. You have a couple mains, a board and a power amp? So does every DJ in seattle and there are a LOT of them. What is minimun to play the game is above and beyond minimum for your band, because at thier gig they don't give a crap about your band. Hope that helps. happy new year too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Special J Posted January 2, 2010 Members Share Posted January 2, 2010 Hi Ed. I'm going to pre-apologize if this comes off as harsh at all. What all these guys are saying is true, that your equipment is lacking for you to go into business. But I think what you're probably lacking in the most is any sort of useful experience that you could justifiably charge for. For you to say "I've got my band's PA, now I'm a sound guy" is like me saying "I just bought some wrenches at WalMart, now I'm a mechanic". Sure I've done some basic repairs to my own vehicles, but that hardly qualifies me to charge someone to work on their car. I know everybody's got to start somewhere, right? Well why don't you spend some time learning the craft. Work as a stagehand, work for a band for free, intern for a big sound co. Then maybe you'll start to understand what's really involved with doing this stuff for real. So to answer your original question: What would I charge for a similar amount of gear, 2 guys and a vehicle? Depends on the length of the gig and distance to the venue, but somewhere in the $1,500 range. It's a wonder that we don't do very much bar work huh? Oh and by the way, what in the world do you need an assistant for, with what amounts to a vocal only PA? So what would I charge if I were you? Nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted January 2, 2010 Members Share Posted January 2, 2010 By the OP's description of the gear I can tell right off he's way under-experienced, telling us certain functions rather than what make/model it is. Coverage of 250-300? And you're really expecting to cover this with 2 PRX's? Back up a little: you said vocal only with 4 floor monitors, that's a good start. For 2 speakers on sticks and an 8 channel board it would be reasonable to expect 2 monitor mixes on 4 wedges (each monitor mix and Left/Right require their own matching 31 band, ex 2x DBX231s). Built in verb only? What about delay? After that description I don't think you'd be hireable for a bar band, if the band doesn't have that much gear already they're really going to want to have everything mic'd, hear the kick thru your (not rented) subs, dicrete monitor mixes etc. As is I'd ask for maybe 100 a night and work it alone. Maybe ask for beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 then there is the other side of the coin, where i make a lot more cash than i do doing bar gigs - and that rig is perfect for it. events. like this one: i get triple what i get in a bar to do these events, and the setup is tiny. 2 wedges, small mains, small outboard. exactly what the OP has. BUT (rather large but) you need to know exactly what you are doing and have massive patience and skills dealing with these folks. thats why it pays so much more. the technical part is easy, the logistics and egos (and expectations of the performers) are wild cards, everytime. you need to be able to deal with changing CD's every tune and cue up track 34 in a moments notice, then mic a 4 peice band for an hour with a 3 minute changover. anywhere including 12 hour stage run with no break. oh, and best part? NO LIGHTING AT ALL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lifeloverwg Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 The OP has left the building. Once again, we're just chatting amongst ourselves.... Winston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BenBroChill Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 gotta love the corporate stuff. {censored} on a stick pays for itself in one gig. gotta love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 gotta love the corporate stuff. {censored} on a stick pays for itself in one gig. gotta love it If you have the patience and willingness to work in that environment. That means showing up on time, doing exactly what you said you would do, dress nicely and keep your mouth shut and opinions to yourself. Your gear better work right the first time too. Like Bill, I have made a good living doing these kinds of events. Many are high profile, high pressure and very high admissions G.P. I have provided sound for events that were broadcast world wide, with viewership in the 10's of millions. For that, they are willing to pay just a little bit more than for a bar band Here's an example of a 50 show series I was the house engineer for... roughly 10 shows a year for 5 years. I was paid to minimize live audio problems and intrusions but still maintain reinforcement for the 1000 seat live audience so that as much of the broadcast footage was as useable as possible. This is a syndicated National Public Radio show that's been running about 15 or so years. http://www.riverwalkjazz.org/jazznotes/californiajammin/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 If you have the patience and willingness and stamina. i am usually wiped out and stupid when these are over. i remember the end of a 3 day run (all day, outside, hot, rainy) i had half the rig torn down and it started to DUMP; not sprinkle but full force downpour. i was so tired and done for that i stood there in the rain and started to go for the tarps when someone walked up to me and asked if i wanted help putting my stuff in the truck i had parked next to it. i was too tired to think to put the gear in the truck instead of tarping it even though i was putting it in the truck at the time. i think the sun kills brain cells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rotebass Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 2 SRX7252 SRX7284 SRX7125 Microtech 2400sSoundcraft GB-2 24 Channel4 channels of compression4 channels of gates1 SPX904 LED Pars on stand+ all cabling, mics, stands, power distro, etc Minimum $400 with an operator, and that is the "you're a good business partner so we're going to give you a deal" rate. If you can't afford that you can have some speakers on sticks and a box mixer, no operator, and you're liable for any damages resulting from improper use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 Stamina... I used to mix a headline venue at one of the largest Jazz festivals in the country. Typically would be a Thursday load-in and a Fri-Mon show schedule with 12 bands a day for 4 days, 50 minute sets, 10-15 minute changes. Numbed by traditional Jazz but every once in a while a nice surprise came along. Did a surprise reunion of the New Christie Minstrels one year that was way cool. By the end of the event, we were beat. A few years, we did 5 days with Thursday being a load-in and rehersal day too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rotebass Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 Seems I'm a little behind with my posting. To get caught up with the rest of the group: Corporate gigs are great, less work and better pay, no tolerance for error though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BenBroChill Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 the best thing I did recently that brought in easy cash, was a music festival and I ran a generator stage with my gear at FOH and brought in a monitor eng to help for free! The deal was I paid $500 for the spot (stage, tent, and power distro) and got to charge the bands to play on our stage, sort of like a showcase. I was the larger of the 3 systems and charged $250 an hour (35 min set) and had every spot filled the entire week, not to mention around half of those were acoustic bands, and more single acts along with the occasional punk band Im not saying it raked in tons of money but talk about hardly any work, good money, and NO STRESS! it was fantastic. PS. I'm a younger guy with about 6 years of exp in audio. Havent go my door opened yet so in the mean time concerts, (smaller) corporate, and PA rentals are paying the bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 One thing I wish I did more of was the jazz genre. I'm a jazz bassist and would absolutely by playing it full time if i could and it isn't because I'm not good enough (not to brag...). There are other reasons i don't but the lack of pay and my need to clothe and feed myself ranks high. I had ONE gig with a locally famous jazz singer/quartet and I had to send another operater out with my gear. Of course the rain came and they had to quit the outdoor show 30min in, the only casualty was a lighting tree that fell and broke all the bulbs. Oh well, everyone was cool and we got paid the same anyway, I wish I was there to mix since I still haven't done a jazz show yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillESC Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 One event I've been doing annually is the Holly Ball. It is a debutant ball that has been happening for the last 114 years. I provide a Public Address/background music sound system, lighting for video, 3 cameras with switching/recording, one large video projection screen w/projector and three 42" flat screen monitors. The Ball is held in a 90/ x 120' tent adjacent to a country club (the flat screens are deployed the the three dining rooms of the club.) We loaded in on Sunday the 27th this year at 8 in the morning and were essentially done by 3 in the afternoon (the cameras and switching gear is a sub contract and comes in the day of the event.) Rehearsal was the evening of the 27th. Back in on event day at 1:30 to tweak a few things and assist the video contractor. Turning off the generator at 1:45 AM on the 29th. Back in at 8:00 AM on the 29th to load out. Back to the shop at noon. Pay . . . $ 7000.00 ($ 2500.00 video sub contract) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Special J Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 One thing I wish I did more of was the jazz genre. I'm a jazz bassist and would absolutely by playing it full time if i could and it isn't because I'm not good enough (not to brag...). There are other reasons i don't but the lack of pay and my need to clothe and feed myself ranks high. I had ONE gig with a locally famous jazz singer/quartet and I had to send another operater out with my gear. Of course the rain came and they had to quit the outdoor show 30min in, the only casualty was a lighting tree that fell and broke all the bulbs. Oh well, everyone was cool and we got paid the same anyway, I wish I was there to mix since I still haven't done a jazz show yet. Unfortunately, the jazz scene in CT is on a decline. The local Jazz Societies are losing funding and jazz promoters are sick of not making money off of their concerts. Love for the genre can only carry you so far. We still do the big Hartford Jazz Festival with 2 stages, a monday night jazz series in the summer, and some smooth jazz series at the local colleges. It sounds like a fair amount still, but doing a jazz show of some sort used to be an almost weekly occurence for us. My favorite was a jazz cruise I used to do every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Special J Posted January 4, 2010 Members Share Posted January 4, 2010 Our company used to do a fair amount of corporate work. When we merged with another company several years ago, we started doing a LOT of corporate work. I think it's important for any decent sized A/V or sound company to be diversified. In the past, the corporate work allowed us to keep doing the stuff we loved to do (music), but last year when every large company canceled their large quarterly meetings, retreats, parties, etc. and every bank canceled everything, I was really appreciative of all the music venues and colleges we work with. They really carried us through. Luckily even in bad times, people need to be entertained and educated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ed Storer Posted January 8, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Thank you all for the input. Sorry to be "out-of-the-room" but my day job interfered. I may post something on CL, just to see what happens. I do plan to offer more than equipment and work with newer bands who don't know how to do a stage plot or even check the power at the venue. My idea is to go to one of their rehearsals and hear what they sound like and then ask them if they want something different. This would be a free consult. Next step would be a visit to the venue to do that stage plot, see if what additional equipment I might need, and get a feeling for the acoustics of the room. Doing events or corporate gigs is something I'll look into. Again - thanks. Assum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philw44 Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Personally I'd keep what you have and just do the gigs that your equipment can cater for. So i would say venues upto around 200 capacity (With subs) and genres that don't hit massive db SPL levels. (no metal or psychobilly!) Most of the acts at the level your aiming for will be happy just to hear themselves in monitors and have a good balanced FOH mix. Infact, even those that don't think your setup is amazing will still goto you because they can't afford anything better and want to keep more proceeds from the gig - fact. For your setup I'd charge around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members srp72ee Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Don't try and compete with the SR companies - because you can't (yet or possibly ever). Be the affordable guy. Competition is fierce at the bottom. There will always be someone more "affordable". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philw44 Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Not sure what competition/prices are like in the USA but here's a few quotes i quickly copy/pasted from a google search for UK PA Hire. 1) Turbosound Tops PA System, 3 vocal mics, 3 mic stands, 2-way monitor mix, 16 channel Allen and Heath mixing desk, all cables plus sound engineer from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinnem Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Competition is fierce at the bottom. There will always be someone more "affordable". yes you right - but there are more ways to stand out other than having an impressive Spec sheet. 2 great quotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Deke08 Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Most of the acts at the level your aiming for will be happy just to hear themselves in monitors and have a good balanced FOH mix. Infact, even those that don't think your setup is amazing will still goto you because they can't afford anything better and want to keep more proceeds from the gig - fact. Good point here.....know your target client.I got into the SR game awhile back since the band I was in slowed down. Once you start doing SR for a few bands in town, If youre good the word will get out quick.Dont worry about the gear, just dont try to over extend for what you have. Being honest, professional and helpful with your clients will go a long way for you in the future.For reference, here in Charlotte I consistently make $200 per gig for..16 channel board2 subs and 2 tops---TOTAL not per side4 monitors with ONLY 2 monitor mixesOutboard...Comp, EQ(mains and Monitors), 2 FX8 par 38's on a truss(sound activated)4 vox mics, 3 inst mics and drum mics100' 16ch snakeSmall bar band type PA, but Im not trying to do 30,000 watt outdoor events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Good point here.....know your target client.I got into the SR game awhile back since the band I was in slowed down. Once you start doing SR for a few bands in town, If youre good the word will get out quick.Dont worry about the gear, just dont try to over extend for what you have. Being honest, professional and helpful with your clients will go a long way for you in the future.For reference, here in Charlotte I consistently make $200 per gig for..16 channel board2 subs and 2 tops---TOTAL not per side4 monitors with ONLY 2 monitor mixesOutboard...Comp, EQ(mains and Monitors), 2 FX8 par 38's on a truss(sound activated)4 vox mics, 3 inst mics and drum mics100' 16ch snakeSmall bar band type PA, but Im not trying to do 30,000 watt outdoor events. That's nice and all, that's really a money making sized system right there. many bands I do can be done only adding 4 mixes instead of 2. BUT: 31 band eq's on L/R & 4 mixes. Quiality acceptable mains/monitors... ah, forget it. That's why I charge a lot more... Start with labor: $10 an hour and you have to bring the microwave to your taco bell job? But it's ok because you do it for the love of tacos right? And the perks; sour cream, beans, drive thru hotties... But you have to supply your own kitchen and move it each day... OK, how about pay me what the band members make: I show up 3 hours early and leave 1-2 hours after everyone is done. And I don't get to play the guitar infront of taco-bell hotties, just sit in the back and listen to people bitch about the sound (coming from the underpaid band with bad tones, guitar solos that are quieter than the rhythm parts, lead singers cup the mic or are 3ft away for "artistic" reasons). And I carry 10x the value of gear that also needs waaay more maintainance than speedy's guitar rig. OK, enough of be saterical. How about a FLAT RATE: For one, many bands at the club level will be pissed off if you take 1/2 their pay for the night. So I could charge less but then I have no money for gas (a 30 gal tank in 07 was like $125 tp fill up). And I can't con anyone into working for {censored} money, so wtf? Charge what you need to, you own the bat, ball and glove. Don't be suprised when the band says no. And the bands that lowball are the biggest PITA's to work for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted January 9, 2010 Members Share Posted January 9, 2010 Here's an example of a 50 show series I was the house engineer for... roughly 10 shows a year for 5 years. I was paid to minimize live audio problems and intrusions but still maintain reinforcement for the 1000 seat live audience so that as much of the broadcast footage was as useable as possible. This is a syndicated National Public Radio show that's been running about 15 or so years.http://www.riverwalkjazz.org/jazznotes/californiajammin/ That gig must have been very cool (but very stressful). As stated, no room for error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 9, 2010 Members Share Posted January 9, 2010 That gig must have been very cool (but very stressful).As stated, no room for error. Royal PITA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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