Buildings made of bricks and steel

[Ryan.]

When you're doing sound in a building like this...

 

1) Do you just show up and do sound without saying a word, or do you mention to the owner that he may want to invest in some sort of dampening improvements etc.

 

2) Do you reduce the amount of reverb you normally would have in your mix and let the walls do the bouncing?

[jwlussow]

I do my job first. If it comes up and I see the owner is looking for help I'll offer some.

 

I do cut back on verb & delay in live rooms. I always try to make each room sound as good as I can get them to sound.

[Ryan.]

So you wouldn't just come out and say that they could be doing a better job at sound management? I just wonder how many owners even THINK that something may be off in their place. But then again, if its a bar or a club they're just grinding out a tiny profit and at the end of the day, most drunk dancing patrons can't tell what song the band is playing, much less the quality of the sound...

 

alas...

[Mutha Goose]

In my experience; if they don't ask for your advice, they don't want it. (general life lesson)

[kurfu]

We play in a place like this about once a month... we kill the reverb entirely - it's that bad... the owner knows he has sound issues, but doesn't seem too anxious to spend the (probably major) bucks to fix it.

[Shaster]

"If I had wanted your opinion I would have ascked for it" comes to mind. You never know who you're insulting when you start knocking something - maybe he designed the place himself....

 

Kind of like spotting a sketchy looking gal in the club and making a negative comment, only to find out she's his girlfriend or even worse, his wife!

 

But as noted, if you're asked for an opinion, you can diplomatically suggest some possible solutions.

 

Besides, it usually gets turned around on ya... "funny, no one else has complained, maybe you're just not good enough to pull of the job".

 

Oh yes, in places like that I kill the reverb entirely, maybe keep some delay if the song needs it (for instance it's in the original recording....)

[Mogwix]

 

Kind of like spotting a sketchy looking gal in the club and making a negative comment, only to find out she's his girlfriend or even worse, his wife!

 

"wow... that chick over there is pretty ugly"

"that's my wife!

"... I'm sorry to hear that." *walks away*

 

I mix events in all sorts of venues with absolutely terrible acoustics. Your best bet is to just kill all the verb, keep the volume as low as you can, and then complain about it later on the internet. I'm sure the venue owner already knows the place sounds {censored}ty, and I'm sure he's either already decided it's not worth investing in, or that it's a work in progress. If he asks your opinion though, then tell him or her what you think.

[jwlussow]

 

So you wouldn't just come out and say that they could be doing a better job at sound management? I just wonder how many owners even THINK that something may be off in their place. But then again, if its a bar or a club they're just grinding out a tiny profit and at the end of the day, most drunk dancing patrons can't tell what song the band is playing, much less the quality of the sound... alas...

 

 

Unless they hire me as the house guy, I will not criticize their room. That is not my job. If I make the bands sound better then the other sound guys do, they might want to know why. Then I will tell them. I do exactly what I am hired to do. You would be surprised at how upset an owner could get if some stranger comes in and tells them how to do their job.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

In my experience; if they don't ask for your advice, they don't want it. (general life lesson)

 

 

 

Word.

 

And if they ask for your advice, and you give it, don't expect it to be used.

[Craig Vecchione]

We have to keep in mind that if the venue isn't a music hall, then the purpose of the bulding and business is probably something other than music, and the owner's focus is on something other than music, but he recognizes that music might enhance the bottom line, so there you are.

 

99% of the time, the acoustics will suck, or the stage access will suck, or the power situation will suck. A good day means all three don't suck. That's just how it is, and how it will be. You aren't there to give opinions, complain, or try to remodel. Make it possible for the band to play, collect your gear and money, and go home.

[Mutha Goose]

 

Word. And if they ask for your advice, and you give it, don't expect it to be used.

 

 

LOL! And if they do use it, but mess up in the process.... expect to get blamed!

[Craig Vecchione]

 

LOL! And if they do use it, but mess up in the process.... expect to get blamed!

 

 

Always.

 

Auto tech was a previous career of mine. Okay. So I know cars. So everyone who knows me comes to me when it's time to buy a car. And I cringe. Because they ask me what to buy.

 

I used to ask questions to assess their needs and desires, and make suggestions. My recommendations were accepted maybe 20% of the time. But if the car was f'd-up at any point, I was blamed 100% of the time. "Christ, that Hyundai has been a nightmare. Why'd you ever tell me to buy it?" "I didn't, I suggested you get the Camry." "Well, why would you recommend that car? You know I don't like how they look. So I had to buy the Hyundai.":facepalm:

[twostone]

Damping material will be a crowd if not, keep the volume down, will reduce a lot of sound refection.

 

No need for any delay or reverb if it's a really reverberant room.

I've always had a hard time mixing in a tunnel myself and we have a place like that and it's really tough to get a good mix when the place is empty.

 

I just learn to have a low stage volume and FOH volume and just wait to the room fills with a crowd before I crank up the FOH mix is what works for me in this particular room.

[Bugzie]

and point the speakers at the dance floor ....not the back wall. Speakers with a downward tilt are a god send in places like that. But above all control the volume and lose the reverb.

[trevcda]

And if you do get asked for your "professional" opinion make sure you can back it up with credentials. Running sound in no way makes you an instant expert in acoustics. Acoustical engineering is a field all into itself and carries a whole new set of liabilities. Managing expectations a key skill. You can have an owner spend five figures easily to start with diffuse a few problem areas only to find out that you've now revealed some severe deficiencies in thier (or your) audio system.

 

Your best bet in any given venue is to know your system inside and out and have the ability to control it's dispersion characteristics, so your not spewing sound directly onto those reflective surfaces. As Twostone said, your best and cheapest absorbative/defractional materials is going to be your crowd. Make sure you bring a big one with you everywhere you go!