We haven't had a good EQ discussion in a while...

[Ryan.]

I CAN'T RESIST THE TEMPTATION TO EQ.

 

There I said it.

 

I've got my mix wiz and my QSCs, and from what I've been told about them is that I should have to do little to no EQing.

 

Then of course is the advice... "if you're going to twist a knob, make sure that you're mainly cutting instead of boosting."

 

Do you guys find this holds true?

 

Do you really leave most of your stuff flat and let the instrument/voice do the talking? Do you really only cut out bad frequencies?

 

Is their EQ anonymous I can join?

[dennis a]

 

I CAN'T RESIST THE TEMPTATION TO EQ. There I said it. I've got my mix wiz and my QSCs, and from what I've been told about them is that I should have to do little to no EQing. Then of course is the advice... "if you're going to twist a knob, make sure that you're mainly cutting instead of boosting." Do you guys find this holds true? Do you really leave most of your stuff flat and let the instrument/voice do the talking? Do you really only cut out bad frequencies? Is their EQ anonymous I can join?

 

It depends

[agedhorse]

Those of us who know how to use eq as a tool and understand how it works rarely have troubles withurban myths.

 

The better the equipment, the less eq correction is generally needed. Same for venues. With good powered speakers, the anechoic box eq is already done for you so all you have to worry about is the room, and there's only so much you can do with that.

[Unalaska]

Eq'ing is a phrase that lets me know that person doesn't know what they're talking about. The reason is because there are different types of eq for different purposes. EQ can be used before an amp channel directly to a driver (i.e. the PEQ on the mid-band of a driverack), or the graphic before a driverack to flatten the overall system from room anomilies. Or channel strip eq that is used to color an input.

 

so what is it you wanted to know?

[Ryan.]

Well I just needed someone like Aged, or you Unalaska to tell me STOP. You've got decent equipment so you need to only EQ for PROBLEMS. Its just really hard. Sometimes I want vocals to cut through so I boost 4k, and to my ears it sounds wonderful. But then in the back of my mind is... "well i'm just tricking myself, what I SHOULD do is look at the entire mix and figure out why the vocals are missing."

[Mutha Goose]

STOP

[Unalaska]

um stop.

 

Are you out front when mixing? If you're playing and mixing from stage it can be very hard to really tell what does what. Being out front will allow you to play with channel strip eq (ASSuming the system has been properly setup) and get the best possible sound. There are no rules, there are certain things I'll start with but it doesn't mean it will work in the end.

[Barisaxman2000]

 

Well I just needed someone like Aged, or you Unalaska to tell me STOP. You've got decent equipment so you need to only EQ for PROBLEMS. Its just really hard. Sometimes I want vocals to cut through so I boost 4k, and to my ears it sounds wonderful. But then in the back of my mind is... "well i'm just tricking myself, what I SHOULD do is look at the entire mix and figure out why the vocals are missing."

 

 

I won't say stop, because if there's one thing you'll learn at all its that sound is very subjective. If you make a big change, or a bunch of small ones, walk the room and make sure that what you did isn't negatively impacting a certain area of the performance space. It's all about compromises...but make sure you don't painstaking dial in a good mix at FOH only to ignore the fact that you're killing half the audience on the other side of the room because of judicious EQ cuts or boosts. You have to trust your ears...if it sounds good (and you're not deaf), it probably is good.

 

Chances are if you're hacking away at the EQ on every single channel strip and the FOH, you're doing more damage than good. Take a step back and really listen to what your doing. There's certainly no one "right" way to do it...

[Mutha Goose]

All joking aside; recording techniques and SR techniques are not always the same and sometimes can be quite contradicting. Same tools, same words, but often very differnt results and applications. This can easily cause a lot of confusion.

[Mogwix]

 

Sometimes I want vocals to cut through so I boost 4k, and to my ears it sounds wonderful. But then in the back of my mind is... "well i'm just tricking myself, what I SHOULD do is look at the entire mix and figure out why the vocals are missing."

 

It depends.

 

This kind of judgment comes with experience, but for what it's worth, the fact that you understand that you are sometimes hearing with something other than your ears means you're on your way. The trick is to discern what you're actually hearing from what you want to hear. The fact is, a lot of normal people will boost the highs and lows and say "that sounds better!". Through normal person logic they figure since boosting the highs and lows sounds "better"... boosting them more will make it sound even better!

 

Sometimes your brain is trying to justify the turn of a knob, other times it does actually sound better. That's up to you to decide.

[lifeloverwg]

Well I just needed someone like Aged, or you Unalaska to tell me STOP. You've got decent equipment so you need to only EQ for PROBLEMS. Its just really hard. Sometimes I want vocals to cut through so I boost 4k, and to my ears it sounds wonderful. But then in the back of my mind is... "well i'm just tricking myself, what I SHOULD do is look at the entire mix and figure out why the vocals are missing."

 

Still depends. With all females in the band, you won't fine me boosting 4k on the vocals, They're bright enough already. Most bar bands I see are more likely to need a cut on the electric around 4k to make room for the vocals. The only channel strip EQ I always do is to reduce proximity effect as I have all the gals well trained to stay tight to their mics.

 

Winston

[RoadRanger]

We haven't had a good EQ discussion in a while...

No such thing .

[philw44]

Here's my take on EQ.

 

I use cuts to make things sound better. I use boosts to make things sound different.

 

For example, on a close miked rack tom sometimes the proximity effect takes over and it sounds boomy. I go about removing the problematic frequency until its cleaned up. Now i think, do i want to change the tonal characteristics of this tom? Boosting up around 1Khz adds a bit of thwack or up near 4Khz makes it more clicky.

 

Be careful not to boost too much as the human ear is much more sensitive to freq boosts than cuts. Excessive boosting tends to make things sound detached from the mix.

 

However, making each individual instrument sound great solo'd doesn't necessarily make for a good mix. You need to have a plan and a process.

 

This is how i work:

 

1) Identify the most important instrument(s) - usually the lead vocal.

 

2) Check this first and listen to it carefully making a mental note of it's tonal characteristics. Solo, EQ and get it to sound as good as poss.

 

3) I then work around this. Guitars sometimes clash with the vocal, if i think that most of the guitars energy is centred around the same freq range as the vocal then i need to address this - either at source or by using channel EQ.

 

4) Other common clashes in a typical band mix are kick/bass guitar or two guitars. I'll do a quick check with drums and bass & two guitars together just to check this

[Redbassman86]

Im reading this post laughing. Just the other week, a touring celtic accordian player was telling me how great the opener sounded, and how great the balance was, then took one look at the channel eqs and came out of his shorts saying "you barely moved those things! You should be cutting the violin channel at 1.2k, and you should be....." Funny, but i find that my eyes mix much worse than my ears, so i try to always mix in the dark....

[philw44]

 

Im reading this post laughing. Just the other week, a touring celtic accordian player was telling me how great the opener sounded, and how great the balance was, then took one look at the channel eqs and came out of his shorts saying "you barely moved those things! You should be cutting the violin channel at 1.2k, and you should be....." Funny, but i find that my eyes mix much worse than my ears, so i try to always mix in the dark....

 

 

Yeah it's very easy to start EQing with your eyes.

 

Sit back, shut your eyes, take it in

[dboomer]

 

Then of course is the advice... "if you're going to twist a knob, make sure that you're mainly cutting instead of boosting."

 

 

This is generally a good practice wrt live sound because a boost of the electric signal doesn't necessarily result with a boost in acoustic output. No so much of an issue for recording.

 

So if you boost the board but don't receive the acoustic result expected you are just burning up headroom (or worse)

[Mutha Goose]

Im reading this post laughing. Just the other week, a touring celtic accordian player was telling me how great the opener sounded, and how great the balance was, then took one look at the channel eqs and came out of his shorts saying "you barely moved those things! You should be cutting the violin channel at 1.2k, and you should be....." Funny, but i find that my eyes mix much worse than my ears, so i try to always mix in the dark....

 

I love that, "this is great! Now change it"

[Ryan.]

I mean some stuff you just HAVE to EQ right?

 

Have you ever walked into a gig, set up the kick mic and just cranked the volume and it sounded fine?

[philw44]

 

I mean some stuff you just HAVE to EQ right? Have you ever walked into a gig, set up the kick mic and just cranked the volume and it sounded fine?

 

 

Yep. Happens quite a lot with the Audix D6 and a well tuned kick

[RoadRanger]

One of the few things I dislike about the MixWiz is that there is no defeats on the EQ . As I don't have a D6 I do tweak the kick a bit but often leave the rest alone.

[Ryan.]

One of the few things I dislike about the MixWiz is that there is no defeats on the EQ .

 

What?

[philw44]

 

What?

 

 

You can't bypass the EQ on each channel without resetting it all to 0.

 

Sometimes it's handy just to flick back and forth to see if your EQ changes are constructive.

 

The human ear is very good at comparing toggled states

[RoadRanger]

You can't bypass the EQ on each channel without resetting it all to 0. Sometimes it's handy just to flick back and forth to see if your EQ changes are constructive

Also keeps you out of trouble with the phase police .

[Ryan.]

 

You can't bypass the EQ on each channel without resetting it all to 0. Sometimes it's handy just to flick back and forth to see if your EQ changes are constructive. The human ear is very good at comparing toggled states

 

 

OH YEAH, that would be a great feature to have.

[jasps]

Also keeps you out of trouble with the phase police .

 

Who are the phase police? Are there members on this forum?

 

BTW, EQ can help there too.