In your professional opinion...

[Ryan.]

This is really just a curiousity killed the cat question from me...

 

Manley Reference Stereo Gold Microphone $7,200.00

 

Have any of you ever used anything like this or close to this?

 

As music professionals can you say that there is a value in this product?

 

I guess what I'm trying to ask is will you ever get a sound worth $7,200 out of a mic like this? Can it be justified in ANY studio?

 

Thoughts/opinions?

[Axisplayer]

$7200? No I have never used anything like that but did have and used a Langevin microphone (lower line by Manley.) That is not out of the ordinary expense for a good mic at a major studio. For live use, it would be WAY overkill in most situations.

 

Plenty of good studio mics have similar price tags and are excellent performers. With the right mic, the right performer, and the right environment magic happens. When it does, the cost of the microphone will be insignificant.

[twostone]

It's made out of Gold if hard times hit melt it down and sell the gold.

[Bobby1Note]

That's peanuts for a mic that may be used to record a track that may sell in the millions, and can be used again and again, and resold at a decent return if need be.

 

Seems to me that I read about a Sony mic worth $70.k I'll try to find that link later. Gotta go for now.

[Ryan.]

Seems incredible to me. I mean I don't think a $7200 guitar would make or break an album.

 

But hey, if the magic is happenin', I guess you can't argue with results.

[philw44]

Not out of the ordinary at all. Probably peanuts compared to what top studios spend on room acoustics / mixing desk etc.

[Reson8tor]

Okay, first, it's a stereo mic: two capsules, two sets of electronics. Second, it's a tube stereo mic so you're also paying for the transformers and a dual power supply for the tube circuit. Divide the price by two, and there are plenty of studio-grade large condenser tube mics out there in the ballpark of $3,600. There are even more expensive stereo mics, like the Brauner VM1S (stereo tube) -- lists for $12,500, sells closer to $11,000 street.

 

A little further down from the stratosphere, you've got the Royer stereo ribbon SF-24 at $4,300 or the tube version for $5,800. Stereo mics are expensive, especially where the manufacturer is trying to get both capsules (or ribbons) close enough to each other in spec to avoid imaging problems. They're studio mics, not for live sound where things like stereo image isn't that critical.

 

People use mics like this for many reasons, including "client appeal," but also because nothing else sounds quite like it. And for some folks, that extra little bit matters. It's a convenience thing too... it's much faster to put up a stereo mic than hang two separate mics for X/Y, ORTF or whatever... especially big, bulky LD mics.

 

Another thing is that this is lifetime gear, not something that will be outmoded by the latest hot thing (until we go to direct brain implants for audio, I guess). I have one nice stereo large diaphragm condenser mic -- a now-discontinued AKG C426 combi. It didn't cost what the Manley does, but I use it all the time, and I'll never sell it. It came with frequency response plots for the actual capsules used in the mic, which is something you won't see for a live sound mic. Here's what it looks like; it's a cool mic and it's a shame they discontinued it:

http://www.akg.com/site/products/powerslave,id,216,pid,216,nodeid,2,_language,EN.html

[Axisplayer]

What opened my eyes was a casual event turned amazing. I traded some live gear to a studio guy that had closed shop and he gave me some great gear for much less than it was worth because we were trading and he needed my gear, I just wanted his. Included in the numerous pieces were a Langevin Dual Channel Preamp and a Langevin CR3A mic. Both are old school but still pro quality (the mic not as much but still not a stage mic.) I was sitting in my workroom at night after we had made the swap. The guy was a friend so I trusted him when he said it was all in great shape. I decided to see what it sounded like. I didn't expect much from a preamp with little more than volume, high end gain with a 8 or 12 Khz switch, low end gain on each channel with a 40 or 80 hz switch. I plugged in the mic, put on headphones, and just spoke. I had never encountered anything quite so articulate, clear, pristine, (words fail me) in just over 50 years of live performance. Now this is only about a $2k preamp (list price) and a mic that was 15 years old and cost about $1k new. This is chump change in studio work.

 

I found out just how lacking my life of A&H and Yamaha consoles, and Shure or AT stage mics really was. It gave me a REAL respect for that level of gear. The slightest change in gain/EQ on that preamp with that mic made huge differences in sound. I have never even set foot in a studio, since I never had any interest in recording. Now I KNOW that is not my territory. I would be lost with the possible choices and nuances that exist.

 

So....while $7k for a mic sounds ridiculous to those of us in combat audio, it is not. Studio is truly where you DO get what you pay for. There are VERY audible differences in the quality of the gear, and although that gear is sonically far superior to much of what I have ever worked with, I cringe at the thought of EVER having gear like that on one of my stages. My typical live sound mics might never sound like that Langevin does, but I can drive nails with a SM58 and still sing with it later. I am certain that can't be said for the vast majority of these studio mics.

 

I knew this gear was both too expensive and probably too fragile for me to use live so I eventually parted with it at a good profit, but it open my eyes.

[Ryan.]

What opened my eyes was a casual event turned amazing. I traded some live gear to a studio guy that had closed shop and he gave me some great gear for much less than it was worth because we were trading and he needed my gear, I just wanted his. Included in the numerous pieces were a Langevin Dual Channel Preamp and a Langevin CR3A mic. Both are old school but still pro quality (the mic not as much but still not a stage mic.) I was sitting in my workroom at night after we had made the swap. The guy was a friend so I trusted him when he said it was all in great shape. I decided to see what it sounded like. I didn't expect much from a preamp with little more than volume, high end gain with a 8 or 12 Khz switch, low end gain on each channel with a 40 or 80 hz switch. I plugged in the mic, put on headphones, and just spoke. I had never encountered anything quite so articulate, clear, pristine, (words fail me) in just over 50 years of live performance. Now this is only about a $2k preamp (list price) and a mic that was 15 years old and cost about $1k new. This is chump change in studio work. I found out just how lacking my life of A&H and Yamaha consoles, and Shure or AT stage mics really was. It gave me a REAL respect for that level of gear. The slightest change in gain/EQ on that preamp with that mic made huge differences in sound. I have never even set foot in a studio, since I never had any interest in recording. Now I KNOW that is not my territory. I would be lost with the possible choices and nuances that exist. So....while $7k for a mic sounds ridiculous to those of us in combat audio, it is not. Studio is truly where you DO get what you pay for. There are VERY audible differences in the quality of the gear, and although that gear is sonically far superior to much of what I have ever worked with, I cringe at the thought of EVER having gear like that on one of my stages. My typical live sound mics might never sound like that Langevin does, but I can drive nails with a SM58 and still sing with it later. I am certain that can't be said for the vast majority of these studio mics. I knew this gear was both too expensive and probably too fragile for me to use live so I eventually parted with it at a good profit, but it open my eyes.

 

Dude, Axis... you always have some killer stories.

[Bobby1Note]

What opened my eyes was a casual event turned amazing. I traded some live gear to a studio guy that had closed shop and he gave me some great gear for much less than it was worth because we were trading and he needed my gear, I just wanted his. Included in the numerous pieces were a Langevin Dual Channel Preamp and a Langevin CR3A mic. Both are old school but still pro quality (the mic not as much but still not a stage mic.) I was sitting in my workroom at night after we had made the swap. The guy was a friend so I trusted him when he said it was all in great shape. I decided to see what it sounded like. I didn't expect much from a preamp with little more than volume, high end gain with a 8 or 12 Khz switch, low end gain on each channel with a 40 or 80 hz switch. I plugged in the mic, put on headphones, and just spoke. I had never encountered anything quite so articulate, clear, pristine, (words fail me) in just over 50 years of live performance. Now this is only about a $2k preamp (list price) and a mic that was 15 years old and cost about $1k new. This is chump change in studio work. I found out just how lacking my life of A&H and Yamaha consoles, and Shure or AT stage mics really was. It gave me a REAL respect for that level of gear. The slightest change in gain/EQ on that preamp with that mic made huge differences in sound. I have never even set foot in a studio, since I never had any interest in recording. Now I KNOW that is not my territory. I would be lost with the possible choices and nuances that exist. So....while $7k for a mic sounds ridiculous to those of us in combat audio, it is not. Studio is truly where you DO get what you pay for. There are VERY audible differences in the quality of the gear, and although that gear is sonically far superior to much of what I have ever worked with, I cringe at the thought of EVER having gear like that on one of my stages. My typical live sound mics might never sound like that Langevin does, but I can drive nails with a SM58 and still sing with it later. I am certain that can't be said for the vast majority of these studio mics. I knew this gear was both too expensive and probably too fragile for me to use live so I eventually parted with it at a good profit, but it open my eyes.

 

Great post Stu, and I couldn't possibly agree more. :thu:

[jwlussow]

Seems incredible to me. I mean I don't think a $7200 guitar would make or break an album.

 

This sounds pretty good and costs considerably more then $7200

[Ryan.]

pretty good

 

[lifeloverwg]

 

It's made out of Gold if hard times hit melt it down and sell the gold.

 

 

That wouldn't last very long even in hard times....

The gold plating on that is likely worth less than $50.

 

Winston

[Mogwix]

 

I guess what I'm trying to ask is will you ever get a sound worth $7,200 out of a mic like this? Can it be justified in ANY studio?

 

It depends.

[Ryan.]

 

It depends.

 

 

Mogwix, do you work in the department of redundancy department?

[Mogwix]

 

Mogwix, do you work in the department of redundancy department?

 

I dunno, I'm not sure.

[Ryan.]

I dunno, I'm not sure.

 

:lol:

[agedhorse]

The real question is WHY does the Langevin sound like it does and everything else not. Sometimes design "flaws" sound better to the ear, though less accurate, which leads to this perception.

 

I have designed all kinds of mic preamps, and with transformer coupled equipment there can be response variations based on impedance interactions that go along with transformer mismatching, ringing plus added distortions that the ear (or some ears) hears as desireable. I was responsible for a particular piece of recording gear that some pretty high end engineers and acts found very desireable. It was, IMO, the added distortion and natural compression of the design that made it appear desireable. It was essentially an effect rather than a basic preamplifier. Can't say what it was due to NDS of course.

 

I don't automatically believe that one particular piece is the cat's meow when I see somebody else choose another piece because it sounds/feels better to them. I think that sometimes people believe in things that are not completely real or attribute phenomona incorrectly... for example the modern bragging on how mic preamps define how a console sounds. Mostly (not completely) utter nonsense. They are missing the other 95% of the signal path.

[philw44]

 

The real question is WHY does the Langevin sound like it does and everything else not. Sometimes design "flaws" sound better to the ear, though less accurate, which leads to this perception.

 

 

Yep. Ever seen a scope reading of the Crown MA5002VZ Amplifier? Full of even harmonic distortion...

 

Lots of people rate this amplifier as one of the best sounding for subs..

 

Go figure!

[twostone]

 

That wouldn't last very long even in hard times.... The gold plating on that is likely worth less than $50. Winston

 

 

I was just joking and if I had that kind of money I'd be buying real gold.

[jwlussow]

 

I dunno, I'm not sure.

 

 

Are you ignorant or just apathetic?

[MarkGifford-1]

When you use the right mic on the right source, it doesn't really matter what the price tag is...

 

And a great singer will sound very good on any mic.

 

However, If you get into the $2500+ range on mics, when you get the right one on the right singer, it's a whole 'nother thing.

 

An example might be Lyle Lovett on his version of "Friend of the Devil" from the "Deadicated" compilation, or some of the Tom Petty stuff from "She's The One."

 

MG

[IsildursBane]

$7000 microphones are not really geared towards hobbyists or guys working at the bottom/entry-level of their craft. They're professional tools for professionals doing professional-level work. Professionals spend more money on tools, because they generally perform better than cheaper ones, allowing the professional to work more proficiently and more quickly.

 

I could buy a Felder table saw and spend double what this mic costs, but it would be silly for me, because I don't know the first thing about woodworking. An expert who does this for a living, OTOH, could very well benefit from having an expensive tool like that.

 

-Dan.

[jwlussow]

 

Are you ignorant or just apathetic?

 

 

Hey Mog, the answer is

 

 

[agedhorse]

Sometimes businesses buy $7000 mics because their clients are sold on their benefits and willing to pay for them... real or not.