Harman products

[badhabit]

As I guess most already know, Harman is the parent company for some well known pro audio products, notably JBL, Soundcraft, DBX, Crown, AKG, Lexicon, etc. I knew some of the brand names had some of their product manufactured in China but I was surprised to see this Chinese manufacturer ( Guangzhou Tiantong Electronics Co., Ltd., also known as JBE Professional ) manufacturing some of Harman's higher end products. The state they make JBL drivers and the VRX arrays, plus most of the other portable JBL Pro line products as well. They also claim to manufacture Crown, EV, Crest and QSC power amps, some Soundcraft mixers ( I knew that ) and DBX gear as well.

 

I don't have a problem with products made overseas and in China. I think they have shown they can manufacturer some quality gear. What I am wondering is: Is this company the legit manufacturer for these Harman products? http://hnbaudio.en.made-in-china.com/

Or, are they counterfeits? If they are counterfeit, this is going to make buying Harman gear much more difficult in the future, would it not? How will one know if the DBX Equalizer you're buying is genuine DBX or counterfeit?

[SoundMan]

If the pictures of the inside of the Crest amps are correct, then those are not Crest designed amps. I see transformers and transistors, the Pro amps have switch mode power supplies.

 

This is common practice in China, I can show you half a dozen sights selling PV mixers that are knock-offs.

[soul-x]

 

If the pictures of the inside of the Crest amps are correct, then those are not Crest designed amps. I see transformers and transistors, the Pro amps have switch mode power supplies. .

 

 

Yeah the amp internals are all wrong. The "QSC RMX4050" is not remotely similar, either.

 

Besides, c'mon, the URL stamped on the pictures is "copy-audio.com"

[soul-x]

 

Yeah the amp internals are all wrong. The "QSC RMX4050" is not remotely similar, either.

 

 

I just want to add to this that their "Crown MA-5002" is the same amp as their "QSC RMX4050".

[Craig Vecchione]

 

If they are counterfeit, this is going to make buying Harman gear much more difficult in the future, would it not? How will one know if the DBX Equalizer you're buying is genuine DBX or counterfeit?

 

 

As a start, buy from local authorized dealers, not remotely via eBay, Craig'slist, some website you find via Google, etc. When you find a retailer who claims to be an authorized dealer, don't take their word; check with the manufacturer. Typically their websites will list their authorized dealers, and all will be happy to confirm or deny an inquiry...it's in their best interest to help stop this.

 

Of course, we have a government that loves to poke their noses into our business, but is "strangely" hands-off with this problem. Hmm...

[Rezrover]

Don't forget the ol "if it sounds too good to be true..." motto especially when trying to save a buck. Just spend the money.

[The Chinese]

 

As a start, buy from local authorized dealers, not remotely via eBay, Craig'slist, some website you find via Google, etc. When you find a retailer who claims to be an authorized dealer, don't take their word; check with the manufacturer. Typically their websites will list their authorized dealers, and all will be happy to confirm or deny an inquiry...it's in their best interest to help stop this. Of course, we have a government that loves to poke their noses into our business, but is "strangely" hands-off with this problem. Hmm...

 

 

Well, this is largely because the amount of dollars that have been bought by China- We simply can't piss them off, because if we do and they sell off their dollars, we're Screwed.

 

T

[agedhorse]

 

Well, this is largely because the amount of dollars that have been bought by China- We simply can't piss them off, because if we do and they sell off their dollars, we're Screwed. T

 

 

As if we aren't already?

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Well, this is largely because the amount of dollars that have been bought by China- We simply can't piss them off, because if we do and they sell off their dollars, we're Screwed. T

 

 

It's actually the other way 'round. They need us a lot more than we need them. We default on debt...they're screwed. We stop buying, or even reduce our buying by about 10%, they *really* screwed. China has built their economy on our purchasing, and despite their efforts to extend this to Europe and other developed nations, the fact is that nobody loves to buy like Americans. Our insatiable desire for stuff keeps China growing.

[lifeloverwg]

 

It's actually the other way 'round. They need us a lot more than we need them. We default on debt...they're screwed. We stop buying, or even reduce our buying by about 10%, they *really* screwed. China has built their economy on our purchasing, and despite their efforts to extend this to Europe and other developed nations, the fact is that nobody loves to buy like Americans. Our insatiable desire for stuff keeps China growing.

 

 

I think you are generally right Craig. The thing to keep in mind though is that China is desperately trying to expand their middle class and doing a pretty good job of it so far.

If they can manage to keep the lower class workers happy enough to maintain social order, which is no small task, it shouldn't take them more than a decade or two before they reach or surpass us in sheer number of consumers.

It doesn't take long to catch up when you start with more than 4 times our total population. When/if that happens, then the power balance will really shift. Not to mention the cost of resources.

 

Winston

[Craig Vecchione]

 

I think you are generally right Craig. The thing to keep in mind though is that China is desperately trying to expand their middle class and doing a pretty good job of it so far. If they can manage to keep the lower class workers happy enough to maintain social order, which is no small task, it shouldn't take them more than a decade or two before they reach or surpass us in sheer number of consumers. It doesn't take long to catch up when you start with more than 4 times our total population. When/if that happens, then the power balance will really shift. Not to mention the cost of resources. Winston

 

 

There's no free lunch, and China is not excepted from this truth. Their pollution, lack of civil rights, difficulty feeding the population, and the fact that creating a middle class in a communist/socialist society won't work there and more than it is here, will all be leveling agents in this global playing field.

[badhabit]

I didn't intend for this to be about whether China is a good global neighbor or not. The fact is, Harman does have some of their products manufactured in China. My query is, which ones? And how does one know what is built where? I was pretty sure genuine JBL was built stateside, but now, I'm not sure. What about the JRX series? And Crown, they definitely have some products built in China, as does Soundcraft. Shouldn't the manufacturer have some responsibility in informing the purchaser where the product is made?

[agedhorse]

 

I didn't intend for this to be about whether China is a good global neighbor or not. The fact is, Harman does have some of their products manufactured in China. My query is, which ones? And how does one know what is built where? I was pretty sure genuine JBL was built stateside, but now, I'm not sure. What about the JRX series? And Crown, they definitely have some products built in China, as does Soundcraft. Shouldn't the manufacturer have some responsibility in informing the purchaser where the product is made?

 

 

Many companies have products built offshore. The country of orgin is always indicated on the product and generally on the packaging as well.

 

Some JBL is built in the US, some in Mexico, some in China and some in other countries. Same for Crown and Soundcraft.

[tuchan]

This is where we need to start looking for that little gold sticker with black writing "MADE IN CHINA".

 

Would be good to note the price difference in two products that are the same, one made in the US and one made in China. I wonder if this does happen. Say a JBL MRX 515 is made in both places, can we tell and is there a price difference, there should be. Saying that, which one do you buy? Time will tell I gather....

[SoundMan]

Country of origin has to be on the product and on the packaging. There are minimum font sizes, so you can't put in a 2 pt font and hide it somewhere. It has to be loud and proud on the box it's shipped in. It's usually on the back of the product somewhere.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Country of origin has to be on the product and on the packaging. There are minimum font sizes, so you can't put in a 2 pt font and hide it somewhere. It has to be loud and proud on the box it's shipped in. It's usually on the back of the product somewhere.

 

 

I've seen some products (not necessarily music gear) that were cleverly if not outright deceptively labeled, "PROUDLY DESIGNED & ENGINEERED IN THE USA" and then in smaller font below, "Assembled in China".

[Craig Vecchione]

 

This is where we need to start looking for that little gold sticker with black writing "MADE IN CHINA". Would be good to note the price difference in two products that are the same, one made in the US and one made in China. I wonder if this does happen. Say a JBL MRX 515 is made in both places, can we tell and is there a price difference, there should be. Saying that, which one do you buy? Time will tell I gather....

 

 

 

I have never seen a product simultaneously manufactured in two countries and offered the choice of manufacture origin. I wish this happened more, so we could vote with our wallets.

 

FWIW, I would *always* buy the MIA choice. I know it will cost substantially more. I don't care. We need jobs. If I can't afford the MIA product, I can't afford the item.

 

And yes, I actively seek out American made items whenever I shop.

[The Chinese]

I've seen some products (not necessarily music gear) that were cleverly if not outright deceptively labeled, "PROUDLY DESIGNED & ENGINEERED IN THE USA" and then in smaller font below, "Assembled in China".

 

Hello Apple Computer

[The Chinese]

 

It's actually the other way 'round. They need us a lot more than we need them. We default on debt...they're screwed. We stop buying, or even reduce our buying by about 10%, they *really* screwed. China has built their economy on our purchasing, and despite their efforts to extend this to Europe and other developed nations, the fact is that nobody loves to buy like Americans. Our insatiable desire for stuff keeps China growing.

 

 

I dunno about a lot more, but there is a balance there.

 

As for China Manufacturing, there are some excellent products that are made in China - My Wife is in Fashion, and much of that industry is manufactured in China. Quality ranges, but constant trips are needed to maintain quality. If that ever changes for the better, then we are in definite trouble, becaus ethem folks work for a LOT less, and are happy to do it.

[The Chinese]

 

I have never seen a product simultaneously manufactured in two countries and offered the choice of manufacture origin. I wish this happened more, so we could vote with our wallets. FWIW, I would *always* buy the MIA choice. I know it will cost substantially more. I don't care. We need jobs. If I can't afford the MIA product, I can't afford the item. And yes, I actively seek out American made items whenever I shop.

 

 

Fender Strat comers to mind - There was a Standard made in Korea, and a Standard made in Mexico, along with the American Made Standard.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

I dunno about a lot more, but there is a balance there. As for China Manufacturing, there are some excellent products that are made in China - My Wife is in Fashion, and much of that industry is manufactured in China. Quality ranges, but constant trips are needed to maintain quality. If that ever changes for the better, then we are in definite trouble, becaus ethem folks work for a LOT less, and are happy to do it.

 

 

Point being, they are "happy" to do it, because their lot in life was a lot {censored}tier a few decades ago. They aren't machines however, and will become jaded/spoiled/disgruntled and demand more freedom/money/free-time. Nobody wants to build cool stuff for other people and not be able to have their own cool stuff. Costs will rise, and prices will follow. When it's no longer cheap enough to build it there and ship it here for less than building it here, the demand will drop.

[MarkGifford-1]

 

I dunno about a lot more, but there is a balance there. As for China Manufacturing, there are some excellent products that are made in China - My Wife is in Fashion, and much of that industry is manufactured in China. Quality ranges, but constant trips are needed to maintain quality. If that ever changes for the better, then we are in definite trouble, becaus ethem folks work for a LOT less, and are happy to do it.

 

 

You might want to watch this...

 

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/chinablue/film.html

[The Chinese]

 

You might want to watch this... http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/chinablue/film.html

 

 

And with respect, You "might" want to understand that My wife knows first hand what those circumstances are, because she is there, at the factory, several times a year.

 

So while I understand that there are horrific conditions there, not everything is as the media always portrays. I actually have a number of close firends who live in China, mostly around Beijing.

 

I'll take first hand knowledge over a second hand news report any day.

 

Todd

[agedhorse]

There is good and bad in this country too, in fact there are industries and areas of this country that resemble third world in many ways.

[KF650SB1000]

wait till you hear the Martin LineArray knock-off. give me a pair of old Eon's instead to cover 300 people.