Members agedhorse Posted December 22, 2010 Members Share Posted December 22, 2010 On a mission critical item like a snake, I want something that I can rely on. Using the "tools" example, would you want to get under a car using a "cheap as hell" jack or jackstands? Not me, no freekin way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stix 518 Posted December 23, 2010 Members Share Posted December 23, 2010 Good point and understood. In my case, Bad Jack Stands = Life/Death. Bad Snake = inconvenience (mix from stage vs. FOH). But I hear you, AH, and completely understand your point. As you know from our many discussions, I aspire to acquire the best, or at least a reasonable facsimile of same within the confines of my cash availability. Snake is definately on the list to be upgraded when either the right used one at the right price comes along or I'm flush and will simply buy a brand new one (EWI comes to mind). Stix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted December 23, 2010 Members Share Posted December 23, 2010 Good point and understood. In my case, Bad Jack Stands = Life/Death. Bad Snake = inconvenience (mix from stage vs. FOH). But I hear you, AH, and completely understand your point. What I know of Andy's day-to-day routine... snake issues would be significantly more than an inconvenience. Actually, I suspect Andy would prefer to figure a way around dealing with iffy jack stands than an iffy snake. Also, I suspect Andy knows the whys of what constitutes an iffy snake... down to details like the metallurgical make-up and configuration of spring contacts in FXLR connections... and knows damn good and well what stands a good chance of working vs. what stands a good chance of screwing with you... at the worst possible time and under the worst possible conditions. When there's hundreds or thousands of connections involved in a system... and they all need to work reliably to get paid (as opposed to having a "funny noise"... that results in forfeiting a performance bond and being black listed)... working at that level is why airline pilots make more than warehouse fork truck drivers. Personally: I'll go cheap (and have) on a jack stand rather than an audio snake... lots of reasons why. If thats any indication of the products I use... so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stix 518 Posted December 23, 2010 Members Share Posted December 23, 2010 Understand completely, W.M. Your products are not "cheap" although your prices for superior products are inexpensive (I've purchased a few times from your company and am very happy with my purchases and the prices I've paid). Furthermore, I am not disputing the difference between junk, adequate and great gear. This whole discussion is about the difference between "endorsing" a product or simply making a statement about real life experiences with a product - regardless of where it falls in the food chain. Andy's (and Unalaska's et. al.) livelihood depends on the reliability and stoutness of the gear he uses. Mine does not. If Andy's uses an inferior (but functional) SR product and it fails, he has a whole lot more to lose that if I use an inferior (but functional) SR product and it fails. His reputation depends on him delivering the goods 100% of the time and he can't afford to have a weak link in the chain - I'm sure he also has redundancy at every show - a luxury I certainly can't afford. If I have a weak link, I (hopefully) figure out a quick work around and move on with nothing but a little embarrassment in front of 75 - 100 friends and fans and the bar owner who won't even remember the problem existed a week from now. I'll still limp through the gig and probably get a return engagement. Andy, on the other hand, may not and it will cost him dearly - in ways I'm probably not even aware of. Hence him not even considering an inferior product for his application AND why he's willing to spend more to have that reliability. I get it - totally. What I got a bit snitty about was the "endorsement" of "Junk" comments after a simple statement of how the product was performing for me - which I thought was what the OP was looking for in his initial post. Frankly, it sounded a bit "gear snobbish" given the OP's desire for member's info regarding the brand. I've stated my position, understand completely Andy's (and why) and hopefully haven't offended anybody with my various posts as that was not my intention at all. Stix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 23, 2010 Members Share Posted December 23, 2010 aren't they sort of the new Madison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted December 24, 2010 Members Share Posted December 24, 2010 Personally: I'll go cheap (and have) on a jack stand rather than an audio snake... lots of reasons why. Let me be clear that I absolutely do not condone compromising safety to save a buck. I consider my jack stands to be "cheap" but adequate for my applications. My jack stands were relatively cheap to buy @ somewhere around $60 (as I recall) for the pair approx. 25 years ago. As I recall, they're rated for 5 tons ea. (the stickers are long gone). What I use them for, I probably never exceed 1/2 a ton static on any one stand (roughly a 10X safety factor). They were comparatively cheap because the more expensive ones were rated at higher capacities, and/or had more height capacity, and/or had nicer fit and finish or additional accoutrements. Also, I don't absolutely rely on my jack stands as I always stick a couple big shop blocks under a rig in addition to the jack stands before I crawl under a rig just in-case my "cheap" jack stands fail. But then I don't make a living with my jack stands (and it's only 2 jack stands, not the approx. 400 connections in my "A" sound & lighting rig) ... so I can justify the extra time and effort involved with safety shop blocks and dicking around working around the fact that my jack stands don't have a lot of height capacity or weight capacity... the once in a blue moon (if that often) that I actually need to use jack stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members monkeyland Posted December 24, 2010 Members Share Posted December 24, 2010 he can't afford to have a weak link in the chain - I'm sure he also has redundancy at every show - a luxury I certainly can't afford. If I have a weak link, I (hopefully) figure out a quick work around and move on with nothing but a little embarrassment in front of 75 - 100 friends and fans and the bar owner who won't even remember the problem existed a week from now. I also cannot afford redundancy which is why I replaced my Seismic insert snake with one from EWI. I think the fact that I can't afford redundancy also enhances the idea that I want to be able to have faith in the things that I DO have. The seismic one was sticking in certain jacks and generally just being a pain in the ass. I needed 4 more channels so i replaced my 4 channel Seismic with 8 channel EWI for not much more money than just buying another 4 channel insert. I'm also currently using an off brand stage snake. not sure if its Seismic or whatever since i bought it from a friend when i needed one right away. I've had to replace quite a few connectors on it but it's done the job so far. I'm pretty much at the point with my system where that is the next thing to be replaced however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audioeast Posted December 24, 2010 Members Share Posted December 24, 2010 I recently had a guy call me up for a quote on a splitter snake and said he found a 32 channel at Seismic for $350... which is way way less than my cost on a quality snake. I looked at the product and explained what i felt were the weak points of it- cheap connectors and they way they were mounted into the box and that it was most likely soldered (if soldered at all) by children. I told him its certainly not even in the same ballpark as a quality made snake but if he was handy with a soldering iron and was going to be the one handling the snake he MIGHT be fine. All you can do is give em the info to make an intelligent decision. I know i wouldnt cut that corner on a stage im working on but there is a reason people are able to continue selling poorly made products....there is always someone who see's value in a "too good to be true" deal. Id love to see those $200 Siesmic Audio Speakers in action! Wheres "Bassknave" spouting "buy once - cry once" when you need him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 25, 2010 Members Share Posted December 25, 2010 The seismic one was sticking in certain jacks and generally just being a pain in the ass. Possibly damaging the jacks. We have seen more damage to 1/4" jacks by imporperly manufactured 1/4" plugs than probably any other single cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members monkeyland Posted December 25, 2010 Members Share Posted December 25, 2010 Possibly damaging the jacks. We have seen more damage to 1/4" jacks by imporperly manufactured 1/4" plugs than probably any other single cause. yeah. that was my thoughts too. It was not a problem except for when used in the inserts on my Mixwiz right after I got it. I figured it would be much cheaper to go ahead and upgrade than to have to replace those jacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted December 25, 2010 Members Share Posted December 25, 2010 4 or 5 years ago I needed a pair of single 18 subs. The siesmic audio dealer had a werehouse in portland and I had a friend I wanted to see too. So I drove down and bought a pair that were basically Nady 18's. Basically I needed a pair that would make a little noise and i could put tops on for like 1 or 2 gigs. I brought them back to seattle, tried them out, sold them the next day on craigslist for what I paid for them. I used the money and bought 2 more EV S181's used. The guys in the werehouse were super confident in their stuff though, "oh yeah, it'll handle 1000w all day long!" Basically it was a big open area with s*** in boxes ready to be shipped out. 2 or 3 guys with no clue on anything taking orders on ebay. Makes me ill that I gave them money at all, and worse that thoe speakers are in a korean church somewhere making believers deaf, and that the only interaction anyone has with those speakers is that ALL pro speakers sound that bad. and I wanted a Chinchilla until I found out how not nice they are as pets too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted December 28, 2010 Author Members Share Posted December 28, 2010 Update; Well, I still haven't received the Seismic 24 channel patch-snake, but I'm not surprised (holidays) That said, I've also ordered the EWI patch-snakes. I elected to go with three 8-channel patch-snakes, rather than a single 24ch. There are many occasions where I will only require 8-16 channels, and I didn't want to have extra cables dangling. I also ordered a few extras while I was at it. Another 2-channel active D.I., and about 30 or so mic and instrument cables. That ought to see me thru for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted January 10, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 10, 2011 The 5' Seismic Audio 24 channel snake I ordered has just arrived. Although it'll be a few days before I get a chance to try it out, I'm afraid it's not very confidence-inspiring. This particular unit is very light-duty by all appearances,,,, Hosa-quality at best. The strain-reliefs are the type you find on very inexpensive audio cables. Mind you, Seismic appears to have two levels of quality available, and this was the cheapest of the two, at $42, so I'm not surprised. The only reason I bought this thing in the first place, was to quickly test the 24 channell Alesis HD24XR that I just bought, and it'll be a while before my EWI patch-snakes arrive. (I ordered three 10'/ 8-channel EWI patch-snakes) Initial impression on opening the package, scared me a little. I saw a wire with no connector on one end. My first thought was, "Oh no,,,,one of the connectors is already broken", but, as it turns out, the snake was assembled with 25 wires instead of 24, and it looks like somebody yanked off the extra connectors. Hmmmm. This particular product is definitely not something I'd consider using "on-the-road". For home use, where it may be permanently attached to studio gear???,,,,,maybe..... We'll see. Regardless, I'll probably be selling this unit as soon as my EWI's arrive, probably late next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted January 10, 2011 Members Share Posted January 10, 2011 " the snake was assembled with 25 wires instead of 24, and it looks like somebody yanked off the extra connectors. Hmmmm." I forgot about that-- mine was like that too. And I think Hosa is a step up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stix 518 Posted January 11, 2011 Members Share Posted January 11, 2011 I believe they manufacture it that way with the 25th as a spare. My 16X8 actually has two spare leads I believe. Stix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 11, 2011 Members Share Posted January 11, 2011 I believe they manufacture it that way with the 25th as a spare. My 16X8 actually has two spare leads I believe.Stix Perhaps to improve manufacturing yields? Assemble all 25, cut off the one that's bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted January 11, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 11, 2011 Perhaps to improve manufacturing yields? Assemble all 25, cut off the one that's bad? Hell, with my luck, that was probably the only good one of the bunch.:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted January 11, 2011 Members Share Posted January 11, 2011 Might be a "drain wire". Who knows how those snakes get used around thw world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 11, 2011 Members Share Posted January 11, 2011 Weeding out the bad connections is not the way to improve quality... the only practical way to do so is to design the quality in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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