Members Reddog1 Posted January 14, 2011 Members Share Posted January 14, 2011 I'm currently in a new band, I'm the lead guitar player, and we use my pa. Consists of 2 peavey sp5's, four yamaha monitors, Crown xls 802 for the mains. No subs. A soundman sits at the 16 channel Mackie all night. The band is a 5 piece; 2 guitars, bass, drums, keys. 3 vocal mics on stage. Most of the places we play would be around 100 people max., just small to medium size bars. I've always pointed the amps in from the sides of the stage, I like it that way. I've read plenty of posts on this site where people feel the same. My bass player doesn't like it, he wants everything facing out. I've already decided I'm going to start using my home made beam blocker in front of my amp again (tube amp), the stage volume is a little loud. There is no volume wars between me and the rhythm player, he likes his volume low just to back me up so to speak. Also, I don't have a problem if I have to turn my amp down. With my beam blocker I might go ahead and face my amp forward, I think the blocker will keep it from creating hot spots in the audience. I plan to keep my amp right next to me so I can hear it. Can I have the bass player point his amp straight out to make him happy? Will that be too much on the audience? Will it bleed into the vocal mics more than it would if he was coming in from the side? He continues to agree to disagree with me on many things, in fact, we are having a meeting tomorrow so he can tell me everything I am doing wrong as far as the pa goes. I've alway been a believer that the pa should do as much as possible, then the soundman has full control over everything and able to get the best sound possible for the conditions. Any help would be appreciated, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted January 14, 2011 Members Share Posted January 14, 2011 Unless You're doing a "Yes" tribute with a lot of top end, I don't think you'll have many issues with the bass cab facing forward. Guitars to be sure, but rarely bass IME. BTW - Does he play with a pick or fingers? Actually, Carol Kaye played with a pick, zero top end - forget I asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NUSound Posted January 14, 2011 Members Share Posted January 14, 2011 Side-filling guitar amps is a tried and true technique. A lot of people quip at first about this "odd" setup, but these "odd" setups are the way it is done in the professional world. I do a lot of shows where the guitar amps are backstage and the "talent" just hears it only from the monitors. You are also correct in in belief that the PA should be where all the sound comes from (unless it's a tiny show), but this is only doable when you have an agreeable stage setup/volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dennis a Posted January 14, 2011 Members Share Posted January 14, 2011 Bass is pretty much omnidirectional and it makes little difference which way you aim the speaker cabinet. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trevcda Posted January 14, 2011 Members Share Posted January 14, 2011 With no subs, your PA isn't doing any work for your bass player. In fact quite the opposite. By positioning his cab side ways you're probably depriving your audience of content that the PA can't provide. Think of what it would sound like if your asked your drummer to turn his kick sideways. It wouldn't project into the audience very well. I use a 2x10 wedge pointed back at me if the PA support is there, if not I'll bring 6x10 or bigger set up. Sub frequencies in an ideal room can be omnidirectional. The full range of the bass guitar, especially when positioned in a typical stage scenario, can be very directional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted January 14, 2011 Members Share Posted January 14, 2011 Bass is pretty much omnidirectional and it makes little difference which way you aim the speaker cabinet.Dennis i dunno bout that, i find most bass guitar sound happens around 80 to 1.6k; occasionally depending on the player/gear an octave lower. still pretty directional if you ask me. i sidewash my keyboard speaker, i do this for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NUSound Posted January 14, 2011 Members Share Posted January 14, 2011 i dunno bout that, i find most bass guitar sound happens around 80 to 1.6k; occasionally depending on the player/gear an octave lower.still pretty directional if you ask me.i sidewash my keyboard speaker, i do this for myself. Agreed. On-stage amps should only be used for personal monitoring... little more. Side-washing is useful if you don't have enough monitors to go around, but if you do, only the mic should hear the amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted January 14, 2011 Members Share Posted January 14, 2011 Why no sub? IMO your missing the other half of your music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted January 14, 2011 Members Share Posted January 14, 2011 With no subs, your PA isn't doing any work for your bass player. In fact quite the opposite. By positioning his cab side ways you're probably depriving your audience of content that the PA can't provide. This. With your setup, you don't want to run much if any bass through the PA. His rig will have to carry the room. Let him put it where he wants, facing the audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lifeloverwg Posted January 14, 2011 Members Share Posted January 14, 2011 This.With your setup, you don't want to run much if any bass through the PA. His rig will have to carry the room. Let him put it where he wants, facing the audience. +1Let him point his amp out front. Although I agree with the other posters as well about even the bass amp having lots of directional content. An interesting experiment for your bass player would be to have him walk even a smaller room with his bass on a wireless unit and hear how different it sounds in different parts of the room. A full PA with subs can help to even things out, but in my experience bass is the hardest thing to get even in the room. Luckily, most people don't care about even bass or killer guitar tone so long as they can hear the vocals and have some thump. Our last gig was a private party in a room for about 150 and my wife's 2x10 bass amp carried the room for the low end. I did however have some of her in the PA with a boost around 800hz and one up around 3.5k for some string sound. In that room I actually had the 100hz HPF in on her channel and the only thing in the subs was the kick. Winston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reddog1 Posted January 15, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 15, 2011 We've put our heads together and are going to add a 1 powered sub that belongs to one of the other players. I think this will help our situation a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted January 15, 2011 Members Share Posted January 15, 2011 I sometimes have the problem of having too much stage bass out front. I turn the bass channel fader down and it has no effect. I turn the channel off and it has no effect. I go up on stage and listen to the bass and it's at monitor volume. Yeah, it's keeping up with all the gack on the stage, not much more. I would prefer that he sidewashes his rig. But, in my band, that's not going to happen. Don't know if that would even help. So, I just put him in the PA so I can "feel" his bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reddog1 Posted January 15, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 15, 2011 I sometimes have the problem of having too much stage bass out front. I turn the bass channel fader down and it has no effect. I turn the channel off and it has no effect. I go up on stage and listen to the bass and it's at monitor volume. Yeah, it's keeping up with all the gack on the stage, not much more. I would prefer that he sidewashes his rig. But, in my band, that's not going to happen. Don't know if that would even help. So, I just put him in the PA so I can "feel" his bass. I'm with you on this one, sometimes the bass just doesn't go away even with the mixer fader all the way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted January 15, 2011 Members Share Posted January 15, 2011 And it's always the lower registers. The upper frequencies are not coming off the stage very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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