Members lenster Posted February 27, 2011 Members Share Posted February 27, 2011 Hi guys. I would like some advice re the eq section on my board/ 31 band eq for a good mix. I use a Yamaha 16/6fx desk with a Yamaha P7000 PA and have a Behringer dual 31 band eq. For the past 5 years i have learnt all this on my own with a little help from a few people. Being the singer / guitarist in a couple of 3 piece bands as well as solo/ acoustic midi trax as of the last 12 mths, i find i'm not always getting a crisp sound ( if thats the right word) sometimes a little dull. Which frequencies should i cut /boost in regards to all instruments and vocals to get a good clear sound. When playing solo its just backing trax, acoustic and my vocals with a digitech vocalsit live 3. With the band its all instruments and vocals . I have done some reading but still not 100% on the right frequencies to alter. Thanx in advance guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members banddad Posted February 27, 2011 Members Share Posted February 27, 2011 There is no easy answer here, in a classic sense, "...it depends...", on lots of things. Primary factors include the room and the speakers. You're going to have to experiment a bit. Start with everything flat, and then cut frequencies that seem to be too loud or overwhelming. You shouldn't need much in a good room with good speakers, and it seems to be more about getting rid of peaks than having to boost anything. Cutting offending frequencies is easier on the PA system too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted February 27, 2011 Members Share Posted February 27, 2011 well, it doesnt really work that way. my advice is to take some time and experiment. eq'ing is different things to different people, and every source/situation is different. for me, eq'ing is used to fix problems in the frequency domain; i.e. feedback, intelligibility, etc. as well as adding some color when i want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted February 27, 2011 Members Share Posted February 27, 2011 Which frequencies should i cut /boost in regards to all instruments and vocals to get a good clear sound. Channel strip EQ's are used for tone shaping, 31-band output EQ is for feedback control and system tuning. I use the 31-band EQ to notch out any resonances that may occur from the PA interacting with the environment. If a room has a huge resonance at 200Hz... I'll cut that out in the EQ to clean up the overall mix. If you're getting feedback in the mains, use the 31-band to notch out the offending frequencies... My advice is to play with the EQ. "a little goes a long way" and "it's always better to cut than to boost". You can only learn by using it, so toy around with it and see what happens as you move the sliders around. Until you figure it out, though, it'd be a good idea to just leave it flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted February 27, 2011 Members Share Posted February 27, 2011 Some of the problem might be the digitech vocalist. I take it you run your vocal direct to it and then to the channel strip. I find that adding a bunch of FX in the monitors can loose the edge/clairity of a voice. I don't know your settings so I could be way off. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted February 27, 2011 Members Share Posted February 27, 2011 The problem could be his speakers. Why the OP didn't mention them makes me wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted February 27, 2011 Members Share Posted February 27, 2011 My advice is to play with the EQ. I agree. Years ago (innabout 1980) I bought a fairly good stereo parametric EQ... set up my PA in my shop and logged a fair amount time with that parametric woodshedding to train my senses to instinctively have a feel for sorting it out. I'm an advocate of including the sound person and the complete PA with band practice. Furthermore; I'm an advocate of having the band first play without monitors, because if the band struggles with putting out a good FOH sound without monitors, the addition of monitors generally makes matters worse. Especially if you're mixing from stage: ditch the monitor and listen to the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted February 27, 2011 Members Share Posted February 27, 2011 The problem could be his speakers. Why the OP didn't mention them makes me wonder. I was going to say the same thing. IMO, the most important thing is to know what you're speakers need, or don't need. Yesterday I was playing around and comparing my RCF 522A's with the 310A's. I usually don't do much of anything with the 522A's EQ wise as they are smooth and don't change character all that much when pushed. The 310A's are totally different. The compression drivers (horn) goes from fairly dull at low volumes to overkill around 2K when pushed. They get loud and are a steal at $400, but the compromise is they need to be EQ'd a bit. I plan on using them for FOH in a small club next weekend so I wanted to get to know them better. The venue is wide, but shallow and I have 3 of them so I'm going to use them all. Get a good baseline EQ for your speakers and you're ahead of most folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ian Anthony Posted February 27, 2011 Members Share Posted February 27, 2011 Hi Lenster, I work as a solo vocalist, so my pa set up is a lot les complicated than yours when you work with your band, but I think these basic guidelines would still apply. 1. Have a very clear idea of the type of sound that you want to achieve from your mix. If you don't have this 'minds eye/ear' concept well worked out then you may spend a long time 'twiddling' your eq and other kit before you find your perfect sound. 2. When you set out to find a good mix, pick a room/venue with a reasonably flat response to live sound. In other words, set up your equipment in a room which doesn't have strong responses in any particular frequency. For me this would typically be a room with square proportions, carpeted, with a ceiling height of about ten feet and a reasonable amount of furnishings typical of a live music venue. Also, no peculiarities of shape ( i.e. large recesses, corridors, windows etc. ).An ideal room for me is the typical old school social club 'clubroom' with a purpose built stage, carpeting and no particular wall or floor area to reflect sound all over the place! 3. As other members have already recommended, set all your eq levels flat to start with and don't make any large adjustments up or down in level. If you can't achieve a good quality sound with a reasonably flat eq, then you will probably have to look elsewhere for the cause of your 'dull' sound mix. 4. I've achieved some really good results by using the auto setup facilities on a 'driverack' speaker management system. During the sound-check the driverack goes through an automatic process of using 'pink noise' to check the speaker volume balance from left and right, automatically adjusts a 32 band parametric eq to ensure that the mix is best suited to the unique room acoustics/response, then finally lowers any resident feedback frequencies in the mix, to avoid any squeals and oinks during the show! I've got to admit, the results are very good and it saves me a good deal of eq experimentation when sound-check times are short. For the purists, you can still tweak the mix if you wish to after the driverack has done its work, plus you can choose different eq patterns to suit your personal tastes in sound. I use this system together with 2 x 1501 Mackie subs and 4 x Mackie 450 middle/high speakers and often receive great comments on the sound quality that I get from them. I can get a good bright mix, with plenty of presence and sufficient low end to 'feel the bass' without the sound getting muddy or irritating. 5. With reference to the Behringer eq, have you tried completely by-passing this and just using the output from your mixer with its onboard eq set flat? This may give you a completely different and brighter sound? Why not try this as an experiment and see what results you get? Taking out sections of your FX gear etc and trying each different set up may be just what you need? I did use a Behringer eq and feedback suppressor myself in the past and wondered why my mix sounded a bit 'muddy' with something missing. I took out the eq, ran the pa, and the result just blew my socks off! The mix was suddenly alive again and I can only assume that there was a fault on the 32 band eq? Anyway, best of luck with your quest for a sound that you will be happy with! Ian Anthony - Tom Jones Tribute Artist - http://www.iananthony.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lenster Posted February 27, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 27, 2011 Speakers are Yamaha C115V FOH. Wedges are Yamaha BR12 .I know thw Wedges arent the best, my main focus is on the FOH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lenster Posted February 27, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 27, 2011 Thanx for the Response guys. I'm already in a better position with all this advice. I consider myself a vocalist / Guitarist 1st. I've never had any audio or sound engineering training, just learnt on the go. I do however consider myself to have a good ear and maybe for this reason i am particular or fussy about my FOH sound, I appreciate all these comments and will continue to ask advice as i go . Maybe its time to take on an audio course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted February 27, 2011 Members Share Posted February 27, 2011 What is there too much of? Use the EQ to lessen it. Most all vocal mics have a boost that's centered near 200Hz and is as much as 12dB. Most all vocal mics have a boost somewhere between 2000 and 7000. The bandwidth and amount vary widely from model to model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 27, 2011 Members Share Posted February 27, 2011 Most all vocal mics have a boost that's centered near 200Hz and is as much as 12dB. Really??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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