Danley TH-Mini update?

[RoadRanger]

So, now that they've been out for a while what do folks think about them? In the 50Hz-125Hz range how does their output compare to an SRX718S or PRX618XLF? Anything else out there of similar size and output in the price range? The JTR Growlers are just a bit too big for me . Thanks!

[lifeloverwg]

I don't think anythings really changed. The really small, really loud sub seems to be a pretty small market niche that not many are trying to reach. I've operated SRX718s multiple times and even rented them before we got the TH-Minis. I think there output SPL wise is pretty much the same and their specs would support that too, but they do sound different without the extra low frequency content that the 718 brings to the table.

 

The only new contender you might look at is the QSC GP212 that was suggested recently by dcastar in another thread. It's only slightly larger than the Mini and claims roughly the same SPL levels while going considerably lower. I couldn't find a measured frequency response, but since it's a bandpass design, I expect it wouldn't be as flat as the Mini.

 

Winston

[RoadRanger]

Thanks! Fulcrum Acoustic also has a 2x12 that is about the same size and SPL and reaches down to 40Hz like the QSC. It is a weird front loaded horn "V" thing but may be flatter than the QSC bandpass?

 

Gotta say that the "geek factor" of the Danley's tapped horn is a big plus to me .

[dcastar]

The GP212 is a great little sub. It easily keeps up with a pair of the more consumer end 15 or 18" subs. No knock on the TH-Mini, as it's also a great piece of equipment!!

 

As the QSC is a 2x12", no doubt that you aren't going to get the growling lows, but it does drive fairly deep. I put my iPhone tuner app / tone generator and started dialing it down. It really only started to drop off around the 47-50 Hz range, but still was putting outputting decently until about 42-45Hz, when the major drop-off occurred.

 

Nevertheless, the GP212 really shines as a small/light/powerful sub. Definitely is meant for the "PUNCH you in the chest" type applications. But it does stay very well detailed throughout it's entire range. Another local wedding band came out to watch our club show the other night, and were amazed at the output. (We used 1 GP212 in a small 125- capacity bar). They're inquiring now with their QSC rep on purchasing a pair.

 

A pair of these on each side would easily cover you for 250 person indoor shows with headroom to spare.

[lifeloverwg]

One nice thing about the QSC over the Mini I noticed is their ability to include a pole socket due to the different design. There is no room in the Mini's tapped horn design for a pole socket so you must use speaker stands or some other way of elevating your tops. Everything has some kind of trade off. The Mini is a little smaller and needs less power to reach it's rating and has really flat response until you reach 50hz, where it starts to fall sharply. The QSC adds a pole cup which can be nice and goes lower but takes more power to do it.

 

Decisions, decisions. Winston

[drumstix]

I would like to hear that QSC sub but if I remember correctly its heavier than the others mentioned here and that was sort of a deal breaker for me.

Ive used a set SRX718's last few years and have been quite happy with there performance. Light weight, easy to move and sound great. Recently Ive used a pair of VRX918SP subs and they are awesome. A bit more $ at first but if you really consider the cost of a quality amp and processing or a amp with processing like a Itech6000 to power a set of SRX, Mini's or QSC212's subs theres not much difference and might be a little less.

[dcastar]

I would like to hear that QSC sub but if I remember correctly its heavier than the others mentioned here and that was sort of a deal breaker for me. Ive used a set SRX718's last few years and have been quite happy with there performance. Light weight, easy to move and sound great. Recently Ive used a pair of VRX918SP subs and they are awesome. A bit more $ at first but if you really consider the cost of a quality amp and processing or a amp with processing like a Itech6000 to power a set of SRX, Mini's or QSC212's subs theres not much difference and might be a little less.

 

Exactly... everything has a trade off. Those SRX718s are amazing for their size and weight. And you're correct... the QSC GP212 is a bit heavier than most. To counteract, we have a small "hotel-style" dolly that fits it PERFECTLY, so it's easier to move around. In fact, we load it into gigs with my kick drum case set atop it.

[RoadRanger]

we got the TH-Minis.

What do you power yours with?

[camplg]

I have a couple that I power with an EV CP4000S bridged

 

I once powered them stereo from the same amp which is 600w at 8ohms and were not that loud, actually very similar to my RCF art905as subs

 

They do sound a lot better than my RCFs

[lifeloverwg]

I'm powering our two off of one bridged PLX 1802 which is about 900w each which is just under 1.3 x rms. At that power I don't worry about driving the amp into limit, although in general that really only happens on some our larger or outdoor shows. Most of our larger gigs have PA provided, so for the majority of the times we provide PA I'm no where near limit.

We have one yearly outdoor gig that gets pretty wild even though it's not a very large crowd or space. This year I'm going to bridge a PLX 3102 into them which is just a bit over 2 x rms to see if I notice a difference having the additional headroom for the transients on the kick drum. I haven't done it so far because I'm usually just fine with the power they're getting and I don't really have to worry about bad things happening at that level, so my attitude so far has been to leave well enough alone.

 

Winston

[RoadRanger]

If I can talk them into makin' me a pair of 4 ohms my IPR3000 will put 900w into 'em - seems like a good place to be to me. I've heard a pair driven from an XTI6000 (1200w each) and they were starting to sound a bit unhappy to me but it could have been the room (typical lousy box shaped function room). Danley claims they are good for 1400w - the drivers are designed for extreme excursion so should last a while on that bridged PLX 3102 (not AH's preferred 20 years tho ) but I'd worry about that bridged EV CP4000S (3x RMS = ) - camplg, do you have an external limiter on them or ? When you had them at 600w were you pushing into the limiters or just running them up to just below?

[agedhorse]

You might want to check out the cost of reconing those speakers first

 

Todd discovered what happens when speakers get driven hard over a long period of time, the mechanical parameters can change quite a bit and the speakers no longer perform as originally designed. The danger is even greater in a horn loaded speaker. This is the prime danger in buying a speaker used if you do not know it's history. It's a very common and expensive problem.

[RoadRanger]

You might want to check out the cost of reconing those speakers first

I'm sure it is rather frightening . OTOH they are specifically designed for a super long excursion. They are constructed like a car sub not like what all you all are used to - rubber surround etc. Dunno about this one but the somewhat similar JTR Growler uses a driver with a 23mm Xmax and 3 inch peak-to-peak Xmech . JTR warranties the driver against mechanical failure up to 2000w (burned voice coils excluded).

[RoadRanger]

One nice thing about the QSC over the Mini I noticed is their ability to include a pole socket due to the different design.

I prefer NOT to have a pole socket as it prevents me from being lazy and placing the subs for convenient use as stands rather than clustering them somewhere . I suppose having one on one of them would be convenient and not encourage laziness .

[agedhorse]

I'm sure it is rather frightening . OTOH they are specifically designed for a super long excursion. They are constructed like a car sub not like what all you all are used to - rubber surround etc. Dunno about this one but the somewhat similar JTR Growler uses a driver with a 23mm Xmax and 3 inch peak-to-peak Xmech . JTR warranties the driver against mechanical failure up to 2000w (burned voice coils excluded).

 

If that's what you think. I don't think you can get the efficiency they CLAIM with that much VC overhang, but I don't have personal experience with them. I am familiar with butyl surrounds and double-spiders though, it's not rocket science nor is it new.

[camplg]

If I can talk them into makin' me a pair of 4 ohms my IPR3000 will put 900w into 'em - seems like a good place to be to me. I've heard a pair driven from an XTI6000 (1200w each) and they were starting to sound a bit unhappy to me but it could have been the room (typical lousy box shaped function room). Danley claims they are good for 1400w - the drivers are designed for extreme excursion so should last a while on that bridged PLX 3102 (not AH's preferred 20 years tho ) but I'd worry about that bridged EV CP4000S (3x RMS = ) - camplg, do you have an external limiter on them or ? When you had them at 600w were you pushing into the limiters or just running them up to just below?

 

When I used them stereo they were as loud as the RCFs which have a calculated spl of 131dbs, yes I was pushing the limiters trying to get them a little louder. When bridged I use the limiting from the EV DC-One processor. I usually set them at -4db and the gain is at about 75%

[RoadRanger]

If that's what you think.

?

I don't think you can get the efficiency they CLAIM with that much VC overhang, but I don't have personal experience with them.

Their efficiencies are quite poor for horns - about the same as front loaded subs.

I am familiar with butyl surrounds and double-spiders though, it's not rocket science nor is it new.

Sorry, I was "speaking" to the rest of the folks following along. Singular "you" is "you all" and the "all you all" I used is the plural "you" in "Southern American English" . Unfortunately in "Northern American English" the singular is "you" and the plural "you all" .

[drumstix]

Remember too if you decide on the SRX718 subs, you dont need anything more than about 900w-1100w per box. There was a great thread on the old PSW forums about just this sub. Might be info on the Growlers there too. (same thread)

[lifeloverwg]

 

?Their efficiencies are quite poor for horns - about the same as front loaded subs.

 

 

Seems like their 101dB efficiency is pretty darn good for a single 12" in it's bandpass range.... In the end, the only thing that's really unique about the TH-Mini, is how small it is. It's loudness and flat response can also be found in other larger offerings. But they're not "Mini".

 

Winston

[agedhorse]

Yes, you lose efficiency with both the small size of the horn and the longer VC overhang.

[RoadRanger]

Seems like their 101dB efficiency is pretty darn good for a single 12" in it's bandpass range.

Horn subs are typically 105db+ which is 2.5x as efficient .

[agedhorse]

Horn subs are typically 105db+ which is 2.5x as efficient .

 

Some of this is because of the compact horn and the tapped approach, some of it is because of the longer voice coil. In order to achieve 3" peak-peak Xmax (that's an awful lot IMO, not sure it's atainable in any 12" config), the voice coil overhang is going to be very long and you will lose probably 6-9dB of sensitivity with this kind of Xmax, which is why I am pretty sure that's not accurate.

[RoadRanger]

Some of this is because of the compact horn and the tapped approach, some of it is because of the longer voice coil. In order to achieve 3" peak-peak Xmax (that's an awful lot IMO, not sure it's atainable in any 12" config), the voice coil overhang is going to be very long and you will lose probably 6-9dB of sensitivity with this kind of Xmax, which is why I am pretty sure that's not accurate.

The 3" peak-to-peak was Xmech. Xmax was 23mm each way. They have a surprising lack of distortion at high SPL's which makes them sound not as loud as they actually are. In listening to many folk talk about a sub "coming alive" at a certain power level I've concluded that they are talking about the harmonic distortion you get when you push them past Xmax - I can get a similar effect using a MaxxBass unit at reasonable power levels . I have four of them now .

[agedhorse]

(2" peak to peak) Xmax is still going to give a 6dB or greater loss of sensitivity compared with a more normal (~5mm) Xmax on a 12" driver. There's a tone of wire sitting outside the useable magnetic field at any given time. This contributes heavily to sensitivity loss.

[lifeloverwg]

Horn subs are typically 105db+ which is 2.5x as efficient .

 

And typically 4 times bigger to attain it!

 

Winston