Members TuMadre Posted June 4, 2011 Members Share Posted June 4, 2011 Did Aviom not think to patent this product???? I used the Aviom system during a session a couple of years back, and thought it was about the coolest thing ever - but damn - expensive! Now Behringer is putting out pretty near the same exact system for most likely half of the cost of the Aviom. Should this offend my sensibilites as it does, or should I be happy that competition might lower the price of the quality product Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted June 4, 2011 Members Share Posted June 4, 2011 Honestly, while the functions are similar this is actually the least "ripped off" look I've seen the big "B" Xerox machine put out. Usually they change very little aesthetically. I read on a forum somewhere that they didn't have their new Mackie clones ready for NAMM one year an literally spray painted a Mackie Mixer and put a Behringer logo on it. When called out on it the rep said "yes, there are similarities" to which the accuser said, no it really is a Mackie I can see the slightly raised logo under the paint. - who knows if it's true, but it's a good story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 4, 2011 Members Share Posted June 4, 2011 "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story" - SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Never_Grew_Up Posted June 4, 2011 Members Share Posted June 4, 2011 Probably. And like everything else Behringer,you pay your (significantly less) money & take your chance. If it doesn't bother you that they've had a number of reverse-engineering lawsuits brought against them and that the only real protection from them (lawsuits) is that they manufacture in China where international trademark & copyright laws don't really apply, then go for it. But the next time someone you know gets laid off because of manufacturing jobs being moved overseas, be sure to tell them you saved 20% on your Behringer purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted June 4, 2011 Members Share Posted June 4, 2011 Probably. And like everything else Behringer,you pay your (significantly less) money & take your chance. If it doesn't bother you that they've had a number of reverse-engineering lawsuits brought against them and that the only real protection from them (lawsuits) is that they manufacture in China where international trademark & copyright laws don't really apply, then go for it.But the next time someone you know gets laid off because of manufacturing jobs being moved overseas, be sure to tell them you saved 20% on your Behringer purchase. To be fair, damn near everything is made in China, which is an entirely different topic and really tied to Behringer. While they were probably early to move production and other companies have followed suit, it was going to happen anyway. It's increasingly hard work deliberately not buying items made in China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 4, 2011 Members Share Posted June 4, 2011 What, they used to make stuff here in the US Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TuMadre Posted June 4, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 4, 2011 Probably. And like everything else Behringer,you pay your (significantly less) money & take your chance. If it doesn't bother you that they've had a number of reverse-engineering lawsuits brought against them and that the only real protection from them (lawsuits) is that they manufacture in China where international trademark & copyright laws don't really apply, then go for it. But the next time someone you know gets laid off because of manufacturing jobs being moved overseas, be sure to tell them you saved 20% on your Behringer purchase. Well there's the rub then, huh - Avion most likely does hold a patent for this bit of gear, but Behringer does not have to honor it due to the lack of international enforcement of applicable patent law. I've owned a few Behringer DI boxes (that have mostly rode in the trailer for years), but not much else that I've actually put to use except for a couple of vocal mics. I have to be honest & say that this product intrigues me, but it pisses me off too much to actually give it any real consideration- albeit the reliability factor of the manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fdew Posted June 4, 2011 Members Share Posted June 4, 2011 Before Aviom there was the Intelex Psychologist Series Remote Monitor Systems 16 ch stereo personal mixers, daisy chain on a network cable had 17 faders and 16 pan knobs, worked great. Aviom makes a great product, but I don't think they had much to patent. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TuMadre Posted June 4, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 4, 2011 Before Aviom there was the Intelex Psychologist Series Remote Monitor Systems 16 ch stereo personal mixers, daisy chain on a network cable had 17 faders and 16 pan knobs, worked great. Aviom makes a great product, but I don't think they had much to patent.Frank Have you got a link for this - I can't find anything using Google, and I'm curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fdew Posted June 4, 2011 Members Share Posted June 4, 2011 It is no longer made so there is not much left out there. I only know about it because I bought a used system from ebay years ago. Still use it and it works well. These two links only show the 8 ch personal mixer. All ours are 16. The mixers were available with rotary or linear "faders" The whole thing was built around there matrix system that was also used for things like hotel ball rooms with rooms that could be split into many rooms. http://www.churchproduction.com/go.php/article/cpm_reviews_intelix_psychologist_personal_monitor_mixing_systemhttp://www.intelix.com/media/manuals/Psych_manual.pdf Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted June 5, 2011 Members Share Posted June 5, 2011 Honestly, while the functions are similar this is actually the least "ripped off" look I've seen the big "B" Xerox machine put out. Usually they change very little aesthetically. That's what I was thinking, too. Sometimes form just follows function. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted June 5, 2011 Members Share Posted June 5, 2011 By far the most different looking (from the original) design I've seen from the Big B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jasps Posted June 6, 2011 Members Share Posted June 6, 2011 It is no longer made so there is not much left out there. I only know about it because I bought a used system from ebay years ago. Still use it and it works well.These two links only show the 8 ch personal mixer. All ours are 16. The mixers were available with rotary or linear "faders" The whole thing was built around there matrix system that was also used for things like hotel ball rooms with rooms that could be split into many rooms.http://www.churchproduction.com/go.php/article/cpm_reviews_intelix_psychologist_personal_monitor_mixing_systemhttp://www.intelix.com/media/manuals/Psych_manual.pdfFrank The idea of a personal monitor mixer was NOT revolutionary. What was revolutionary is the digital transmission protocol aviom developed. There are more options now, of course. Before the intelix there was also a system that was run off of coax cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TuMadre Posted June 18, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 18, 2011 Found some pricing for this gear (never bought anything from this vendor). Rackmount input module: $250 (Aviom version $1,325) Distribution module: $150 ($475) Personal mixer module: $200 ($620) The upside is that maybe Avion will adjust their pricing. Hard to belive that you can get a clone of their system so cheap - I guess it'll melt during the first use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 18, 2011 Members Share Posted June 18, 2011 It'll erase your hard drive and steal your girlfriend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members imnotded Posted June 18, 2011 Members Share Posted June 18, 2011 At that pricepoint why even buy the Aviom. You could be replacements for the Behringer stuff a few times cheaper than a single Aviom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted June 18, 2011 Members Share Posted June 18, 2011 "At that pricepoint why even buy the Aviom. " In a lot of cases, there are more costs to replacing equipment than simply purchasing equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TuMadre Posted June 18, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 18, 2011 It'll erase your hard drive and steal your girlfriend! Just like my last roommate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 18, 2011 Members Share Posted June 18, 2011 The first time it embarasses you or your client in fromt of a crowd, the cost will become trivial... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members imnotded Posted June 18, 2011 Members Share Posted June 18, 2011 Well, I was talking about for a permanent install such as a church. Either system would be too much of a hassle in a weekend warrior type band to set up for each gig. Behringer stuff lasts a a lot longer when it just sits there. Either way though you could buy backups for everything and still be under an aviom system by a good margin. IMO I wouldnt expect the Behringer system to cost more over the long haul (buying replacement stuff) than the Aviom over its lifespan (possibly buying replacements). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fdew Posted June 18, 2011 Members Share Posted June 18, 2011 The first time it embarrasses you or your client in front of a crowd, the cost will become trivial... Exactly Right. I am the target market. A mid size church with a limited budget. It they would just last 1/2 as long and die during practice then.... well, maybe.They will develop a intermittent problem that will take over the service, and then be hard to reproduce. Behringer, No way, Not for $200, not for $20, not for $2 I had a similar experience with microphone cables. I bought cheep. The connectors looked a bit like Neutrik but they didn't fit the microphones quite right. But they worked. A few weeks later one went noisy during a solo. I asked my self if I could fix it instantly for $20 would I. Before I left the building I cut off all those connectors and threw them away. A few days later I did some soldering. I learn slow but I do learn. I will buy quality used, to save money, but I will not buy cheep hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 19, 2011 Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 I asked my self if I could fix it instantly for $20 would I. This is EXACTLY the question to ask when buying anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bajazz Posted June 19, 2011 Members Share Posted June 19, 2011 There is a reason for entry-level gear being called "entry-level gear". You get what you pay for and if you don't need reliability, high quality, great sound or customer service, there is no reason for getting the highest priced equipment. I'd like to see statistics that shows a entry-level copy destroying the market for the original. I have often tested the concept of something by getting a cheapo, I.E when I went wireless, I first tested a ripoff, to find that I was willing to give it a try. I bet that the personal monitor thing might be a good idea, but I'm not sure if I would invest a fortune finding out. So instead of sitting on the fence like many do today, I believe my band would get the B version and sell it to get the A if it works out. I've tried the talk the guys into getting the A, but they are reluctant due to the price... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 20, 2011 Members Share Posted June 20, 2011 When the B version doesn't work because they got it wrong, why would you try the A version using your logic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hage1 Posted October 18, 2011 Members Share Posted October 18, 2011 This is one weekend warroir band that will be trying them. The price is right. We love the Aviom, but who can afford them? We've had no more trouble with our Behringer gear than any other. In fact, the biggest pain has been those damn internal fuses in the Mackie power amps. Who came up with the brilliant idea of internal fuses anyway?? We did a gig with house sound, and Aviom, and it is very cool. Next time I'll look for the "made in China" label on those Avioms. I wouldn't be surprised to see it. In my opinion, there is just no reason for the Avioms to be that expensive, other than lack of competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.