Members agedhorse Posted February 27, 2012 Members Share Posted February 27, 2012 Waste of time, effort, and money IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted February 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 27, 2012 And you end up with something that isn't practical to move and has a flip of the coin chance of sounding worse with $70 worth of stuff in it versus a replacement piezo. That's all we're saying. If you're OK with the limited application and those risks then While its sound was slightly harsh compared to some of my other floor wedges, the Nady was, prior to frying the piezo, loud and clear enough that everything in the mix had sufficient definition and clarity. The 12" on its own sounds pretty good, but absent a horn just doesn't cut through enough. I highly doubt the addition of a xover and good horn driver will make it sound worse. AND I highly doubt adding 21 ounces (the weight of the Eminence driver) will stress the horn structure much. Worst comes to worst I eventually switch out the 12" in favor of a better one, and if needed install a stronger horn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted February 27, 2012 Members Share Posted February 27, 2012 I highly doubt the addition of a xover and good horn driver will make it sound worse. Very likely without designing a proper pad. And I am not familiar with any Eminence aluminum compression drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 27, 2012 Members Share Posted February 27, 2012 Replace the piezo with what's in there currently. Likely BETTER than trying to improve what's there. You can get replacement parts from Nady. This is a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted February 27, 2012 Members Share Posted February 27, 2012 While its sound was slightly harsh compared to some of my other floor wedges, the Nady was, prior to frying the piezo, loud and clear enough that everything in the mix had sufficient definition and clarity. The 12" on its own sounds pretty good, but absent a horn just doesn't cut through enough. I highly doubt the addition of a xover and good horn driver will make it sound worse. AND I highly doubt adding 21 ounces (the weight of the Eminence driver) will stress the horn structure much. Worst comes to worst I eventually switch out the 12" in favor of a better one, and if needed install a stronger horn. And I'm telling you I've "been there, done that" and pissed away over $100 in compression drivers, crossovers and pads and had a horn flare break. My comments to you have been nothing more than my life experience. You're experience my be different. In the end it's $70, so big flippin' deal. I've certainly wasted far more over the years on this stuff. So knock yourself out and have a good time doing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted February 27, 2012 Members Share Posted February 27, 2012 What caused the part in question to fail in the first place? Who's to say it won't happen again regardless of the repair/upgrade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted February 28, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 28, 2012 What caused the part in question to fail in the first place? Who's to say it won't happen again regardless of the repair/upgrade? Cheap monitors, cheap piezo horn driver being pushed. A better driver, run via crossover, ought not have the same issue. All my other monitors have never had a failure like that, but both Nadys have. Not unexpected, and I fully anticipated doing this one day. That day has come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted February 28, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 28, 2012 Very likely without designing a proper pad.And I am not familiar with any Eminence aluminum compression drivers. The actual driver is titanium. The body is aluminum. ASD 1001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 28, 2012 Members Share Posted February 28, 2012 Cheap monitors, cheap piezo horn driver being pushed. A better driver, run via crossover, ought not have the same issue. IME, not true. YOu have opened yourself up to different problems that you have not yet experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted February 28, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 28, 2012 IME, not true. YOu have opened yourself up to different problems that you have not yet experienced. You really eschew experimentation, don't you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted February 28, 2012 Members Share Posted February 28, 2012 "You really eschew experimentation, don't you." It is very easy to confuse repeating other folks basic mistakes for experimentation. As in, some folks here have spent a lot of time with a lot very specific measuring devices trying to figure out what stuff is doing and why; that is experimentation. Doing stuff that you've never done before (especially which a lot of us -have- done before and are reporting on) might be a fun adventure for you. But that is not experimentation-- we can tell you what you'll find, and you'll find it like we found it. But I agree with other folks here: have fun repeating our mistakes! I know that I wouldn't give up the failures, great and small, which are the result of adventure in the face of other folks wisdom and research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted February 28, 2012 Members Share Posted February 28, 2012 Let it go the guys the OP needs to get the DIY stuff out of his system. It's his money and time and let exprience be the teacher since it will trump any internet advice. I was told the same thing but I didn't listen nor did I wantd to listen I wanted to know on my own and FWIW Mark your APX drivers are still going strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted February 29, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 29, 2012 Let it go the guys the OP needs to get the DIY stuff out of his system. It's his money and time and let exprience be the teacher since it will trump any internet advice. I was told the same thing but I didn't listen nor did I wantd to listen I wanted to know on my own and FWIW Mark your APX drivers are still going strong. I am always ready to listen to advice. Tell me why you think the 12" cone in that cab can't be matched with a particular horn driver, and I'm all ears. What I'm not all ears for is "waste of time and money, don't do it, don't even try" etc. I guess if you are hiring out your services as a sound man you will naturally be reluctant to vary from a formula that works. Part of that formula ia marketing, and marketing is "when you hire me, you get JBL and Electrovoice speakers and an Allen & Heath board, all factory designed to make you sound your best". Fortunately, my basement rehearsal studio has no such constraint. I'm free to take the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted February 29, 2012 Members Share Posted February 29, 2012 I am always ready to listen to advice. Tell me why you think the 12" cone in that cab can't be matched with a particular horn driver, and I'm all ears.What I'm not all ears for is "waste of time and money, don't do it, don't even try" etc. I guess if you are hiring out your services as a sound man you will naturally be reluctant to vary from a formula that works. Part of that formula ia marketing, and marketing is "when you hire me, you get JBL and Electrovoice speakers and an Allen & Heath board, all factory designed to make you sound your best". Fortunately, my basement rehearsal studio has no such constraint. I'm free to take the chance.the main problem is that the stock woofer in that cab has an efficiency of about 92db watt/meter. It makes little sense to replace the horn driver with something in the 103-107 range if you have to pad it down over 10db. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 29, 2012 Members Share Posted February 29, 2012 You really eschew experimentation, don't you. No sir, I don't. Experimantation is great when justified. What you are doing is flushing your $$$ down a rathole which is fine by me but there are plenty of other folks reading these threads trying to learn and IMO they can learn a lot from what you are trying to do. The monitors are crap, no problem, but it ends up being better crap when you match crap components with crap components... ie. a crap horn with characteristics that match the crap woofer (sensitivity, frequency response). If you put a compression driver and new horn into that cabinet, you would need to pad down the HF section and you will need to know what the crossover frequency should be for THAT SPECIFIC conbination of components since it's unlikely that the LF section has much if any LPF. Not being able to measure this and calculate the proper components is likely to sound worse and be less useable than just replacing what's already in there that you know worked at least acceptable. Buy a spare if you are concerned with reliability. They are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted February 29, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 29, 2012 Thanks for a more thoughtful reply this time. No sir, I don't. Experimantation is great when justified.What you are doing is flushing your $$$ down a rathole which is fine by me but there are plenty of other folks reading these threads trying to learn and IMO they can learn a lot from what you are trying to do.The monitors are crap, no problem, but it ends up being better crap when you match crap components with crap components... ie. a crap horn with characteristics that match the crap woofer (sensitivity, frequency response). If you put a compression driver and new horn into that cabinet, you would need to pad down the HF section and you will need to know what the crossover frequency should be for THAT SPECIFIC conbination of components since it's unlikely that the LF section has much if any LPF. Not being able to measure this and calculate the proper components is likely to sound worse and be less useable than just replacing what's already in there that you know worked at least acceptable. Buy a spare if you are concerned with reliability. They are My problem here is that, clearly, the components are NOT properly matched. I have never blown a tweeter in any other cabinet. With these, I am 2for2. So I am getting the asd1001, along with the prescribed xover and an lpad. I am also getting three of the replacement piezos. One nady gets the stock replacement and goes right back into service, the other gets to be a test vehicle. Not a waste at all! Worst case, I end up getting a new 12" to match the horn.... That leaves me with plenty of spare components for the one stock nady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 29, 2012 Members Share Posted February 29, 2012 Whatever. You see it your way and I see it mine. Either way you end up with a crap speaker regardless of what you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted February 29, 2012 Members Share Posted February 29, 2012 Thanks for a more thoughtful reply this time.My problem here is that, clearly, the components are NOT properly matched. I have never blown a tweeter in any other cabinet. With these, I am 2for2. That's because they're really bad, inefficient boxes, incapable of the output you need. Some component has to break if you're expecting more than what they are capable of. You're making some assumptions here that do not necessarily play out. If I burn up two transmissions trying to pull a boat with my Geo Metro, it is not because the transmissions are poorly matched to the car, it is because the car is poorly matched to my needs. 2 for 2 may be a better indication that these may not be something you want to throw money and time at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted February 29, 2012 Members Share Posted February 29, 2012 purchase a crossover. The 'right' one is $42. How do you know it's the right one? You can't just slap a generic crossover in a system and expect the best performance. A crossover must be tuned to the cabinet as well as the specific components. Opps, I see Agedhorse has already addressed that issue - heed his advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted March 4, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 4, 2012 A follow up.... I installed the eminence xover and horn driver. Is it perfect? No. Does it sound better than it did? YES. The highs are much smoother. The change in xover point (yes, theree was a basic 2-way in there after all) did reveal minor issues with the cabinet. It now needs to be eq'd differently but that is no big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted March 16, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 Final installment on this. We did our first session since I installed the Eminence driver in the Nady PFW12 monitor wedge cabinet. The guitarist and singer get the primary sound from it. The guitarist commented immediately as we were beginning to play that it sounded "drastically better" than he remembered, and did I make some change to it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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