Members jwlussow Posted August 12, 2012 Members Share Posted August 12, 2012 Well if that's the case, could you guys recommend powered cabinets that are better than the KW's? I haven't looked much further as of yet, but if oyu guys know some, feel free to let me know... Meyer, for one.... Seriously, you can't think of a powered cab better than KW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madjack Posted August 12, 2012 Members Share Posted August 12, 2012 Meyer, for one.... Seriously, you can't think of a powered cab better than KW? For many of us who work at the lower level of local bar bands, we have a good grasp on the qualities of MI gear, but not so much on the next tier up. IE, which is better for what type of gigs, Meyer, Eaw, L'acoustics, etc. Also, much of this level of gear isn't readily available for us to audition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members djiceman1575 Posted August 12, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 12, 2012 Meyer, for one.... Seriously, you can't think of a powered cab better than KW? Well, since you want to put it that way, no, I can't I've already decided with going QSC anyways. Since nobody was able to provide active three-way alternates that I could get away with just a pair with for the same price...Thanks anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rbts Posted August 12, 2012 Members Share Posted August 12, 2012 The KW122 is a 12" + horn. The ones I looked at last nght (ON TOP) were two speakers -and a horn. I could not find a cabinet with two 12's and a horn - so I guess I was wrong about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 12, 2012 Members Share Posted August 12, 2012 Well, since you want to put it that way, no, I can't I've already decided with going QSC anyways. Since nobody was able to provide active three-way alternates that I could get away with just a pair with for the same price...Thanks anyways. http://www.renkus-heinz.com/loudspeakers/series/current/stx/ststx7.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members djiceman1575 Posted August 12, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 12, 2012 http://www.renkus-heinz.com/loudspeakers/series/current/stx/ststx7.html Price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 12, 2012 Members Share Posted August 12, 2012 Price? I think you can find these available in the $3k range, equal to between 2 and 3 of the QSC's you are looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members djiceman1575 Posted August 13, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 13, 2012 I think you can find these available in the $3k range, equal to between 2 and 3 of the QSC's you are looking at. Those look nice, maybe later on down the road... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted August 13, 2012 Members Share Posted August 13, 2012 Those look nice, maybe later on down the road... Hmmm perhaps that is a little shortsighted? Look, I know nothing about the Renkus-Heinz stuff, but Agedhorse is a very knowledgeable guy and I think you are blowing off his advice too quickly. Let me explain my reasoning here: If you were looking for, say one 3-way + one sub per side and were posting an available budget that would comfortably buy you the K, KW, or PRX cabs then I would understand your answer more than I do now. Because then you would maybe consider "saving" for the better gear which you cannot afford yet. But, you clearly are looking at getting 4-6 tops and 4-6 subs per side, which is a lot of speakers for a lot of money. What Aged is suggesting for you would be WITHIN your budget and would give you the same coverage and probably a better sound, not to mention cutting down on the transport needs and setup times. I mean if you have 8 grand to spend on a pair of tops, a pair of monitors, a pair of subs, and a mixer, then I get your "later on down the road" response. But for your budget, this magical "later on" time seems like it is now. Why wouldn't you want less bulk, better quality, and better overall performance for...wait for it...the same money? I don't get it. Now again, knowing nothing about the cabs Aged just recommended, maybe I am wrong. But why are you acting as if you have to "consider this later" when you are planning on spending the same dollars? Look, maybe in the end, for whatever reasons I can't conceive of, having a huge amount of cabinets would suit your needs better than less, but even if this is true, and you find that the KW's and PRX's are better suited to your needs running in tandem with so many cabs, then you should at least more seriously consider what he is telling you right now before you take that plunge into mid-level gear when you are spending high-level gear money to begin with. I can tell you this, for whatever its worth: I am still saving for a system, and I probably will be locked into the PRX/KW price range when I am ready. But if I wasn't and if I had upwards of 18 grand to spend, I would think LONG AND HARD before buying more sheer cabinets of inferior gear when steered away from that configuration by a guy like Aged. Just think about it! You have a lot of money to spend. Don't feel you HAVE TO buy more bulk and less quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted August 13, 2012 Members Share Posted August 13, 2012 Djiceman I know you've got your mind set on powered three-way tops over 18" subs (not sure why), but man... gotta tell you - just crusin' around on a Sunday evening I found several places closing out JBL SRX712m's for between $900 and $1000 per cab. You'll never see cabs like this again for prices like that. When they're gone they're gone. If I were putting together a system from scratch for the purposes you are describing and with the budget you have, four of them is what I would get for my tops without hesitation. Yeah you're going to have to power them, but... wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members djiceman1575 Posted August 13, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 13, 2012 Djiceman I know you've got your mind set on powered three-way tops over 18" subs (not sure why), but man... gotta tell you - just crusin' around on a Sunday evening I found several places closing out JBL SRX712m's for between $900 and $1000 per cab. You'll never see cabs like this again for prices like that. When they're gone they're gone. If I were putting together a system from scratch for the purposes you are describing and with the budget you have, four of them is what I would get for my tops without hesitation. Yeah you're going to have to power them, but... wow. I'd love to if I wasn't running a solo-man operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rbts Posted August 13, 2012 Members Share Posted August 13, 2012 Hard to argue with THIS logic (and silly to). Hmmm perhaps that is a little shortsighted? Look, I know nothing about the Renkus-Heinz stuff, but Agedhorse is a very knowledgeable guy and I think you are blowing off his advice too quickly. Let me explain my reasoning here: If you were looking for, say one 3-way + one sub per side and were posting an available budget that would comfortably buy you the K, KW, or PRX cabs then I would understand your answer more than I do now. Because then you would maybe consider "saving" for the better gear which you cannot afford yet. But, you clearly are looking at getting 4-6 tops and 4-6 subs per side, which is a lot of speakers for a lot of money. What Aged is suggesting for you would be WITHIN your budget and would give you the same coverage and probably a better sound, not to mention cutting down on the transport needs and setup times. I mean if you have 8 grand to spend on a pair of tops, a pair of monitors, a pair of subs, and a mixer, then I get your "later on down the road" response. But for your budget, this magical "later on" time seems like it is now. Why wouldn't you want less bulk, better quality, and better overall performance for...wait for it...the same money? I don't get it. Now again, knowing nothing about the cabs Aged just recommended, maybe I am wrong. But why are you acting as if you have to "consider this later" when you are planning on spending the same dollars? Look, maybe in the end, for whatever reasons I can't conceive of, having a huge amount of cabinets would suit your needs better than less, but even if this is true, and you find that the KW's and PRX's are better suited to your needs running in tandem with so many cabs, then you should at least more seriously consider what he is telling you right now before you take that plunge into mid-level gear when you are spending high-level gear money to begin with. I can tell you this, for whatever its worth: I am still saving for a system, and I probably will be locked into the PRX/KW price range when I am ready. But if I wasn't and if I had upwards of 18 grand to spend, I would think LONG AND HARD before buying more sheer cabinets of inferior gear when steered away from that configuration by a guy like Aged. Just think about it! You have a lot of money to spend. Don't feel you HAVE TO buy more bulk and less quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted August 13, 2012 Members Share Posted August 13, 2012 I'd love to if I wasn't running a solo-man operation. The 712ms would be heaps lighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 13, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 I'd love to if I wasn't running a solo-man operation. On the previous page you stated that weight wasn't an issue, as you'd "always have help" available. Not that this makes sense, as the JBL's are lighter. I'm also perplexed by your continued insistence on 3-way boxes. I've got a pair in my rig (SR-X) and they're fine, but 2- vs 3-way among PRO boxes is a non-issue; they'll both sound great, and fewer drivers and less internal circuitry means fewer things to break, and less $$ to repair if they do break. You're knocking on the door to the big leagues. You need to step up your game and learn what really matters, and what really doesn't. This isn't hard to do, but you need to be willing to give up ideas that may not be correct or important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted August 13, 2012 Members Share Posted August 13, 2012 Solo operation is exactly why you should look at some pro cabs. A $3000 cab that can replace 2 or 3 $1000 cabs while increasing the quality seems like a no brainer. Initial cost is comparable but your setup, transportation and storage costs can drop substantially. Why not consider moving up in quality and performance? The 3 way cab thing has been debated many times but it is usually with noobs that still have the "bigger is better" mentality. You seem to be above that. The SRX cabs mentioned will offer better performance than the KWs or PRX cabs. Moving up the chain might be something that you should give serious consideration to. You seem to have a decent budget, how about building an incredible system with that money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 13, 2012 Members Share Posted August 13, 2012 This is beginning to feel like an excercise in audio masturbation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted August 13, 2012 Members Share Posted August 13, 2012 By the way, the suggestion of SRX gear is an awesome one! I honestly wish that JBL made SRX quality powered speakers for those of us who no longer want to play with amps and crossovers in our not-so-spare time. Hahaha I know guys like Agedhorse and other very knowledgeable members can really tweak a passive system, but I prefer active these days given all the awesome new technology and the way that companies like JBL and QSC are totally matching their speakers and amps in the powered cabs. One thing, and I am the wrong person to speak definitively on this (so ask someone else here and don't just take my word for it) I believe that the PRX618XLF boxes are the same 18" drivers as the SRX. So that might be the way to go even if you decided to step up to an SRX or equivalent system. You're knocking on the door to the big leagues. You need to step up your game and learn what really matters, and what really doesn't. This isn't hard to do, but you need to be willing to give up ideas that may not be correct or important. This is precisely what I was saying in my rather loquacious wall-of-text above. You did manage to say it far more succinctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumstix Posted August 13, 2012 Members Share Posted August 13, 2012 SRX is on its last days. Replaced with STX. The new line is quite a bit heavier. Wonder how they sound? Regardless, I can understand if you just don't want to deal with amps and rack gear. KW and PRX sort of hold the top spot in there price range as good performers. After that the price really goes up.Aged mentioned H-R. Another would be RCF's 4Pro line. The 4Pro sub is only a few bucks more than the QSC KW but the tops are just about double.Next up the ladder run is RCF NX series. There is no 3 way in the lineup but again as others have said, a nice set of two ways over subs are hard to beat.Db Technologies has some nice stuff too that are neck and neck with the RCF boxes. What about the KLA boxes? After this the price jumps again! JBL VP, Meyer Sound...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted August 13, 2012 Members Share Posted August 13, 2012 This is beginning to feel like an excercise in audio masturbation. Any port in a storm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 13, 2012 Members Share Posted August 13, 2012 Any port in a storm! Nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members donsimpson12 Posted August 17, 2012 Members Share Posted August 17, 2012 Well I never thought we would be heading this way, but here's what we have decided on after messing with them and other speakers all summer. They're quite scalable and don't seem to have any phasing issues at all.. If we need more than what this system can give, then the gig is large enough to bring in a sound company with enough gear for the gig. I kinda had my heart set on YorkVille Tops (ef500P's) but in A-B testing, they just didn't seem to measure up and be as well rounded as the KW153's. The bottoms are YorkVille 21" powered cabinets as well. They just Thump and the throw is pretty descent for a front loaded cabinet. The Pic is what one side will be for larger shows. but as I said, we can certainly scale back as needed. I also have a pair of the JBL Eon 515Xt's and a pair of Eon Subs.. While they sound nice, they are a different class and simply are not as clear and loud as the QSC's.. Another factor I had to weigh in was market share. The Qsc's seem to be in popular demand which means that they will hold their value and will be easier to resale when we are done with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members djiceman1575 Posted August 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 17, 2012 Well I never thought we would be heading this way, but here's what we have decided on after messing with them and other speakers all summer. They're quite scalable and don't seem to have any phasing issues at all.. If we need more than what this system can give, then the gig is large enough to bring in a sound company with enough gear for the gig. I kinda had my heart set on YorkVille Tops (ef500P's) but in A-B testing, they just didn't seem to measure up and be as well rounded as the KW153's. The bottoms are YorkVille 21" powered cabinets as well. They just Thump and the throw is pretty descent for a front loaded cabinet. The Pic is what one side will be for larger shows. but as I said, we can certainly scale back as needed. I also have a pair of the JBL Eon 515Xt's and a pair of Eon Subs.. While they sound nice, they are a different class and simply are not as clear and loud as the QSC's.. Another factor I had to weigh in was market share. The Qsc's seem to be in popular demand which means that they will hold their value and will be easier to resale when we are done with them. Looks good to me. So you don't have alot of problems with comb filtering? Is there a reason you stuck with those subs vs the KW181's (besides a bigger speaker, lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members donsimpson12 Posted August 17, 2012 Members Share Posted August 17, 2012 Looks good to me. So you don't have a lot of problems with comb filtering? Is there a reason you stuck with those subs vs the KW181's (besides a bigger speaker, lol) They seem to be mixing quite well right now.. I want to get them up in the air a little and test it tough.. From ground level, Comb filtering seems non-existent. I owned a KW181 for a while as well. It's a great sub. They are not Yorkville 21's though. Comparing, 1 Yorkville seems to out perform 2 KW 181's... Make sure you have a good means of transporting with the Yorkvilles weighing in around 200 lbs each.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members djiceman1575 Posted August 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 17, 2012 They seem to be mixing quite well right now.. I want to get them up in the air a little and test it tough.. From ground level, Comb filtering seems non-existent. I owned a KW181 for a while as well. It's a great sub. They are not Yorkville 21's though. Comparing, 1 Yorkville seems to out perform 2 KW 181's... Make sure you have a good means of transporting with the Yorkvilles weighing in around 200 lbs each.. That would by my only limiting factor to not get them, lol. If it wasn't for weight, I bet I would love getting one. But that's alright, like I said 4 KW181's per side, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 17, 2012 Members Share Posted August 17, 2012 They seem to be mixing quite well right now.. I want to get them up in the air a little and test it tough.. From ground level, Comb filtering seems non-existent. I owned a KW181 for a while as well. It's a great sub. They are not Yorkville 21's though. Comparing, 1 Yorkville seems to out perform 2 KW 181's... Make sure you have a good means of transporting with the Yorkvilles weighing in around 200 lbs each.. The comb filtering effects is really quite mild. For most folks it's really pretty un-noticeable IME. I think it's about a 2:1 ratio for the subs, but that ratio applies pretty much to (USD) price, weight, and size too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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