Poor (almost broke) man's equivalent to the QSC K10???

[Gypsy Kiss]

Absolutely nothing wrong with the Behringer 212D , small, cheap, light and sound very decent. Been running a couple for fold back duties 3-4 nights a week for the past few years and they get shuffled in and out of the van all the time with zero problems.

[stunningbabe]

 

Originally Posted by RoadRanger

I've used a pair of B208D's as stereo keyboard monitors or for the drummer with no complaints. I mount them on mike stands (with 1-3/8" adapters). Nowhere near as loud as a K10 but how deaf do you really want to get ?

 

Thumbs up! Yup...how deaf do you really wanna get? LOL!

[stunningbabe]

Originally Posted by Gypsy Kiss

Absolutely nothing wrong with the Behringer 212D , small, cheap, light and sound very decent. Been running a couple for fold back duties 3-4 nights a week for the past few years and they get shuffled in and out of the van all the time with zero problems.

I have the lovely B208D. Love it! Used for well over 1 year averaging 4-5 shows a week. Traveled with me all over the country, in venues where it can be very hot and sometimes very cold too. Last week it fell 3 feet down from my Van onto the rough tarred ROAD after I opened the rear door and didnt realise that it resting at the edge of the door. THUMP!!

In Horror....I quickly picked it up...saw some scratches...and tried it on. Phew...it still works! WONDERFUL.

[ChiroVette]

Originally Posted by Shaster

I can personally grasp this, I just don't believe it. There are almost always better options than buying junk and then eventually buying the right piece of gear.

Okay, but WHEN did I ever recommend JUNK?? I recommended used gear that was not quite as good as what he wanted, but I made it very clear to steer him away from junk. One product I recommended that he could find at a good used bargain are the JBL Eon's, particularly some of the old ones. I would get your point and the point of others if I was steering the guy toward a "buy one get one free" set of Behringer crap speakers or some Samson PA gear that you get free when you buy a pound of fish from the local market. I was very clear that he should be exercising a minimum standard so that he could have a good chance of liquidating the gear he buys now at around or above what he pays for when he is ready for his K speakers.

Originally Posted by Shaster

There is usually good value budget gear available that is very close in price to junk budget gear. Really, the only time one would have to buy junk gear is if there is truly no other option. Like being out on the road when a piece of gear fails, you've got an hour to replace something and the only music store in town has nothing but crap. Even then you should be able to rent it instead of buying it.

Maybe there needs to be a distinction between gear that sounds horrible and will ruin your show no matter how well the gear functions, and gear that sounds okay but might fail due to poor build quality. In the latter case, if you can get the gear cheap enough to recoup your money and you're a gambling man, then that might work. But I suspect that few folks want to endorse that position - even if they've been there in the past.

Nor would I. I think it is important to walk into any musical gear situation with a minimum standard of what is acceptable and sounds at least good enough to be an asset to your band while you save for better gear. I would never advocate buying complete and utter garbage. As you said, and this is very true, you can get budget gear that sounds good at so little above the price of absurd crap that the difference borders on negligible. Additionally, sometimes you can buy used "decent gear" at prices below new garbage-gear.

[GCDEF]

The flaw in the group-think in this thread is the incorrect assumption that all low-cost stuff is junk and not worth owning. That's true in some cases, but not all. The Alto a few of us here have mentioned, is a decent sounding, reliable, low-cost speaker that will absolutely work for the OP. It's probably not as good as the K-10, but it's 1/4th the price and certainly easily adequate for what he needs right now.

[stunningbabe]

 

Originally Posted by GCDEF

The flaw in the group-think in this thread is the incorrect assumption that all low-cost stuff is junk and not worth owning. That's true in some cases, but not all. The Alto a few of us here have mentioned, is a decent sounding, reliable, low-cost speaker that will absolutely work for the OP. It's probably not as good as the K-10, but it's 1/4th the price and certainly easily adequate for what he needs right now.

 

I agree. Beggars cant be choosers. Mr Thread starter stated he's on a tight budget...so if he wants a new one...there is no other product that fits into that budget...except Behringer.

[GCDEF]

 

Originally Posted by stunningbabe

I agree. Beggars cant be choosers. Mr Thread starter stated he's on a tight budget...so if he wants a new one...there is no other product that fits into that budget...except Behringer.

 

And I played with a drummer that used a Behringer powered speaker as a monitor for years. As far as I know, he's still using it. There is some perfectly fine budget gear out there.

[modulusman]

If it is just for a monitor that only a bandmember will hear then cheap is OK. If it is something the audience will be hearing then I would go with better quality.

[nchangin]

Originally Posted by stunningbabe

I agree. Beggars cant be choosers. Mr Thread starter stated he's on a tight budget...so if he wants a new one...there is no other product that fits into that budget...except Behringer.

Used Peavey's are in the budget if he buys used like this one:

http://used.guitarcenter.com/usedgea...ort=0&dir=desc

PEAVEY SP12M

I love the peavey's for sound, maybe not the sexiest boxes made but they sound good.

(Puts up his shield for all the comments he's going to get)

[Miko Man]

mstreck, what is your current budget for the monitor(s)? What genre of music will these be used for? (To give me/us an idea of "how loud" you are needing.) What other constraints affect your choice (size of the enclosure, depth of bass response, weight, etc)? How often do you gig, and how long do you expect the gear to last?

Your original post mentions an active monitor; but later you said that you were going with a separate mixer, amp, and a passive speaker? Why the change? Thanks. Mark C.

[stunningbabe]

Even 'reliable Peavey' products also failed before...but people dont wanna highlight that much (if at all) out but prefer to bash other brands.

[jonthomas]

The buy once cry once philosophy is great in theory but if you have enough rig for the gig anything more is just gravy.

My 1990 Ford escort will get me to where I need to go just as well as a Bugatti and I don't care about a scratch or if someone steals it even. A set of EAW monitors would be a liability (to me) and I would not be comfortable leaving them unattended in any of the venues around here.

B-stock K10's are around $600, new RCF 310's go for around $420 on the bay, either one of those would work a large stage. If the band never cranks it the little recommended Alto or even cheaper Behringer would be fine keyboard monitors if you don't need 120db on stage.

[stunningbabe]

Originally Posted by jonthomas

The buy once cry once philosophy is great in theory but if you have enough rig for the gig anything more is just gravy.

My 1990 Ford escort will get me to where I need to go just as well as a Bugatti and I don't care about a scratch or if someone steals it even. A set of EAW monitors would be a liability (to me) and I would not be comfortable leaving them unattended in any of the venues around here.

B-stock K10's are around $600, new RCF 310's go for around $420 on the bay, either one of those would work a large stage. If the band never cranks it the little recommended Alto or even cheaper Behringer would be fine keyboard monitors if you don't need 120db on stage.

I dont mind the EAW if you give it to me :-) LOL!

[Pro Sound Guy]

Originally Posted by stunningbabe

Even 'reliable Peavey' products also failed before...but people dont wanna highlight that much (if at all) out but prefer to bash other brands.

Anything can fail. Some products are known to have a poor track record for failure and just plain poor quality control in the factory. We all knew the YUGO was a POS for a car because of known failures and poor quality.
When a manufacturer gets that junk gear label people can just hear the brand name and think "YUGO" sucks.
I did not want to use name brand in audio so I chose the car thing as an example.

[agedhorse]

Nothing worse than striving for mediocrety... should this be applied to the band as well? God knows there are plenty of mediocre starving bands out there in that catagory.

[nousername]

I don't think I've ever seen so much dissent to the "buy once, cry once" mantra.

[GCDEF]

 

Originally Posted by nousername

I don't think I've ever seen so much dissent to the "buy once, cry once" mantra.

 

I don't think anybody is saying it's a bad plan, just that if the OP has an immediate need and limited funds, it's not a practical plan. Sometimes economics dictate that we have to make do with a less than optimal solution.

[ChiroVette]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

Nothing worse than striving for mediocrety... should this be applied to the band as well? God knows there are plenty of mediocre starving bands out there in that catagory.

I don't think anyone is asserting a striving for mediocrity. But sometimes some people have to work within a budget that simply doesn't allow them to purchase equipment that would meet the standards of most of us in this forum. Sometimes you have to get what you can and settle for a while so that you can play out. By the way? Semi-unrelated: I don't know about your area, but where I live most of the best bands have absolute crap equipment. Don't ask me why, but it's true. They only ever get to use good gear when they play places that have killer house PA's. My experience is that if the band is good, the gear ends up only mattering to people like us who hear the nuances. Most people in bars and clubs are there to rock, drink, and try to get laid. If the band is tight, this is all they care about.

This doesn't dismiss your point that people like myself, for instance, who can save for good gear should do so. But not everyone can. I know guys who play out every weekend and in popular bands who use Mackie powered cabinets that most here would consider utter crap. Some others use JRX crap. My experience is that while I absolutely want good gear and encourage anyone interested in it to get good gear as well, there are so many bands out there who do just fine playing through mediocre equipment that many of us, myself included, consider sub standard. And you know what? The good bands still sound good and the ones who have a following still make money.

Again, maybe things are different in your area, and certainly this is not meant as an admonishment to buy garbage. Clearly at your level or even much lower, at the large venues and festivals even the gear has to be pretty amazing, too. But, and this is another whole issue, I find it fascinating that nobody asked the OP whether the gear he wants is for bar gigs.

Hahahaha to be quite honest? All of my musician friends playing in very successful bands think I am absolutely out of my friggin' mind spending 10 grand on a PA for 99% bar gigs! Are they really wrong? I don't know, but I want the better gear anyway. Not everyone does.

[fdew]

Originally Posted by GCDEF

I don't think anybody is saying it's a bad plan, just that if the OP has an immediate need and limited funds, it's not a practical plan. Sometimes economics dictate that we have to make do with a less than optimal solution.

And the OP is doing that without buying interim cheap. "I'm gonna DIY with a small mixer, power amp, and monitor. It's extra setup and more lugging, but it should get me through until I can get some more cash this spring." It is more work, clumsy, but it will do and in the spring he can buy what he wants. I think the reason so many are singing the "buy once, cry once" is that we have been there. There are so many things wrong with buying less then you need, and it hurts and keeps on hurting.

After the purchases you still don't have what you need.
You still can't do what needs doing
You have spent part of your budget.
and the one I hate is now I don't feel I can buy the good one because I already have this.

I can not remember a single time in my life where I regretted buying quality. I have often regretted buying less then quality and trying to make do.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by ChiroVette

I don't think anyone is asserting a striving for mediocrity. But sometimes some people have to work within a budget that simply doesn't allow them to purchase equipment that would meet the standards of most of us in this forum. Sometimes you have to get what you can and settle for a while so that you can play out. By the way? Semi-unrelated: I don't know about your area, but where I live most of the best bands have absolute crap equipment. Don't ask me why, but it's true. They only ever get to use good gear when they play places that have killer house PA's. My experience is that if the band is good, the gear ends up only mattering to people like us who hear the nuances. Most people in bars and clubs are there to rock, drink, and try to get laid. If the band is tight, this is all they care about.

This doesn't dismiss your point that people like myself, for instance, who can save for good gear should do so. But not everyone can. I know guys who play out every weekend and in popular bands who use Mackie powered cabinets that most here would consider utter crap. Some others use JRX crap. My experience is that while I absolutely want good gear and encourage anyone interested in it to get good gear as well, there are so many bands out there who do just fine playing through mediocre equipment that many of us, myself included, consider sub standard. And you know what? The good bands still sound good and the ones who have a following still make money.

Again, maybe things are different in your area, and certainly this is not meant as an admonishment to buy garbage. Clearly at your level or even much lower, at the large venues and festivals even the gear has to be pretty amazing, too. But, and this is another whole issue, I find it fascinating that nobody asked the OP whether the gear he wants is for bar gigs.

Hahahaha to be quite honest? All of my musician friends playing in very successful bands think I am absolutely out of my friggin' mind spending 10 grand on a PA for 99% bar gigs! Are they really wrong? I don't know, but I want the better gear anyway. Not everyone does.

Where I live all the good bands have good gear. A couple of bands have Passive JBL SR or SRX boxes. Two bands I know have QSC KW powered speakers. The lowest I see is some Mackie 450s over Mackie subs.

[ChiroVette]

Originally Posted by modulusman

Where I live all the good bands have good gear. A couple of bands have Passive JBL SR or SRX boxes. Two bands I know have QSC KW powered speakers. The lowest I see is some Mackie 450s over Mackie subs.

Yeah, maybe it's because I am in NY City where many of the really hot clubs have goof house PA's and sound men employed by the clubs to man them. To be honest, most of the most successful bands have absolutely nothing that would make an experienced sound man sit up and take notice. Even on Long Island, where most of our gigs are, almost no bands have gear on the same level that people here talk about and that I am saving up for. The appreciable lack of gear owned by all these cover bands does not seem to hurt their success or following any. I don't remember once ever hearing an audience these guys play in front of complain, "Oh! Well this band would be really good if they upgraded those Mackie tops to K-12's and those weak ass Behringer subs to KW181's dammit!

This is why I have taken a little heat from my musician friends, including my own band for saving for the system I will likely be getting around the new year. Because they cannot even begin to fathom why, in the name of all that is holy, I would want gear that expensive "when the system I have sounds more than fine," to their ears and is already leaps and bounds ahead of what they are using in terms of quality.

The bottom line is that when you are playing bars, I honestly think that people care more about playing songs they want to hear AND how tight the band is. But whenever I field any shit as to why I am investing in gear, my answer is that I don't give a crap whether anyone at the audience level notices the bump in sound quality. I am not doing this for them, I'm doing it for me. I simply WANT this gear. I am seeing it as a sort of hobby to tinker with my band at the sound reinforcement level. I am under absolutely no illusions that 99% of my audiences will ever even know or care one way or the other.

[Shaster]

Interestingly this thread has deviated from it's original question - big surprise . That question was essentially, what would be the cheapest interim purchase on the way to the K10.

Poor (almost broke) man's equivalent to the QSC K10???

I won't be using it for FOH - just as a monitor for my keyboard during gigs (and on only about 25% of the songs during the night). Money's super tight right now- so is there anything out there that I can use as an ASAP temp fix until I can get the K10? I'm not opposed to a Behringer if it'll do the job.

So many of the posts were in relationship to the belief. correct or erroneous, that the OP wanted the very cheapest solution to his problem. AFAIK there was never a request for a good budget piece of gear, just the cheapest and/or fastest purchase available. IMHO that would eliminate used gear and other time consuming options. And in my read of the request, buy once, cry once seems to be the best answer in this particular case.

Had the OP wanted a budget piece of gear to hold on to and keep for a while, a different response might have been appropriate - there are certainly lots of budget threads and recommendations posted here. And it's true that some of us have done alright by buying twice and only crying once, but others have not. So our responses would probably reflect our biases based on our experiences.-

Again, it sounds like the probem has been solved, by using gear currently on hand.

[mstreck]

Originally Posted by Shaster

Interestingly this thread has deviated from it's original question - big surprise . That question was essentially, what would be the cheapest interim purchase on the way to the K10.



So many of the posts were in relationship to the belief. correct or erroneous, that the OP wanted the very cheapest solution to his problem. AFAIK there was never a request for a good budget piece of gear, just the cheapest and/or fastest purchase available. IMHO that would eliminate used gear and other time consuming options. And in my read of the request, buy once, cry once seems to be the best answer in this particular case.

Had the OP wanted a budget piece of gear to hold on to and keep for a while, a different response might have been appropriate - there are certainly lots of budget threads and recommendations posted here. And it's true that some of us have done alright by buying twice and only crying once, but others have not. So our responses would probably reflect our biases based on our experiences.-

Again, it sounds like the probem has been solved, by using gear currently on hand.

Yep. And for the record, we do try to not use "cheap" gear. We have always strived to upgrade our PA and now are working with EV powered tops, Yorkville powered subs, Allen & Heath mixer, dbx driverack, etc. AND we hire a sound man for every show. We sound good - however, the aforementioned equipment (plus a few other unexpected financial setbacks like a deer totalling my truck and forcing me into a car payment) is WHY I can't go out and spring for a K10 at the moment .

But it's whatever... I'll get there.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by ChiroVette

Yeah, maybe it's because I am in NY City where many of the really hot clubs have goof house PA's and sound men employed by the clubs to man them. To be honest, most of the most successful bands have absolutely nothing that would make an experienced sound man sit up and take notice. Even on Long Island, where most of our gigs are, almost no bands have gear on the same level that people here talk about and that I am saving up for. The appreciable lack of gear owned by all these cover bands does not seem to hurt their success or following any. I don't remember once ever hearing an audience these guys play in front of complain, "Oh! Well this band would be really good if they upgraded those Mackie tops to K-12's and those weak ass Behringer subs to KW181's dammit!

This is why I have taken a little heat from my musician friends, including my own band for saving for the system I will likely be getting around the new year. Because they cannot even begin to fathom why, in the name of all that is holy, I would want gear that expensive "when the system I have sounds more than fine," to their ears and is already leaps and bounds ahead of what they are using in terms of quality.

The bottom line is that when you are playing bars, I honestly think that people care more about playing songs they want to hear AND how tight the band is. But whenever I field any shit as to why I am investing in gear, my answer is that I don't give a crap whether anyone at the audience level notices the bump in sound quality. I am not doing this for them, I'm doing it for me. I simply WANT this gear. I am seeing it as a sort of hobby to tinker with my band at the sound reinforcement level. I am under absolutely no illusions that 99% of my audiences will ever even know or care one way or the other.

Very few bars here have house sound. We have an award winning independent music store and a good local scene here.

[n9ne]

To the OP....

I was recently in the exact same position, and in lieu of a keyboard amp, I picked up a used JBL EON15 G2 full-range powered speaker. Haven't gigged it yet, but it sounds good and has some cool features. (Three inputs w/ adjustable levels, Hi & Lo EQ, balanced output for daisy-chaining, etc). Bought it used for $200. Sounds like it might be right up your alley.