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Studio Live vs. DL 1608

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Stingray5 wrote:

If you don't have a I pad wouldn't the Studio Live 16.0.2 BE A BETTER CHOICE? THIS SOUNDS LIKE A STATEMENT BUT IT'S A QUESTION THANKS.

It depends on your point of view IMHO.

The 16.0.2 has slightly better efx from the reports I have heard (I have not heard a DL1608 with my own ears yet).  

You can use a 16.0.2 without an iPad.  This could be a big deal for many.

Neither one has recallable gains, so that is a wash.

The DL1608 is slightly less expensive .... if you already own an iPad ;)

The DL1608 has 16 mic preamps vs. 12 on the 16.0.2.

If you want to do remote mixing with the 16.0.2, you will ALSO need a little mac laptop and a wireless router to do it with while the DL1608 only needs a wireless router.

So .... it depends ;)

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agedhorse wrote:

The thing I like dealing with are IT or Internet connectivity issues, they make dealing with a snake seem pretty easy IMO.

LOL! In my case I leave one iPad docked sidestage so - even though I do all that is possible to insure a reliable wifi connection - I can jump back sidestage and continue on with the show. If I did have a monitor engineer obviously he could take over - while I haven't done that yet a couple of my clients do think it's cool that my normal setup has both a FOH and monitor world cool.gif.

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OneEng, nice rundown but the prices are a bit off. I actually own both a StudioLive 16.4.2 (since Jan of 2009) and just a month ago bought the DL1608 and have done maybe 5 shows with it.


First the pricing:

DL1608 can be had for about $850

A 5 Ghz router can be had for $20 these days. I went to Microcenter and found a Vizio for $19.99 and it works great

Used Ipad 3's have been selling for $330 (Ipad 3 is the last one that works with the dock connector). I'm actually using an original Ipad and it's been pretty good.


So here's my 2 cents on which mixer wins where

MIXING (from the mixer itself) - PRESONUS. Real faders, full meter bridge with selectable input or output views. With the MACKIE you have to scroll to see all and the meters show only the input levels.

MIXING (Remotely with IPAD) - MACKIE. The app is very well thought out, easy to use. It still lacks a few features, but, IMO it's much better than the PRESONUS app. The Mackie app lets you see compression and gating information, the Presonus app lets you adjust compression and gating, but you get no visual feedback so what's the point? Also, no laptop is needed so you just saved several hundred dollars, firewire headaches if not using a mac, and less/easier updates.

MIXING (Remotely with IPHONE) - MACKIE - hands down. PRESONUS was really short sided with their QMix application in that they allow only the auxes to be mixed. The Mackie gives you access to the main mix. I just used this for the first time last night as I got a new Iphone 5 (which has 5 Ghz wifi), and it's great for doing mix adjustments when you only have seconds during a solo to go out and check the mix.

METERING - PRESONUS - As mentioned, the MACKIE only has input level indication, Also, something about the Mackie just isn't quite right. There's little graphical difference between loud enough and "I can't hear that at all". It's just easier to "site mix" with the Presonus. Also, you can only see 8 channels at a time on the Mackie. I moved the 8 most important channels to the 1st 8 and that helps.

SOUND - MACKIE - With 4 fully parametric EQ's and great graphics, the Mackie is easily better to get exactly what you want out of it. Also, the High Pass Filter on the Mackie is 18 db per octave (I think) versus the measly 6 dB per octave on the SL (Why bother).  The PRESONUS does have better downward expansion in that it just works more smoothly.

ROUTING - PRESONUS - 4 bus, talkback mic, tape in/out, multipin connections, inserts, mono output, control room output, aux A/B inputs are all things the Mackie lacks.

RECORDING - PRESONUS - ability to multi-track and play back the recording into the mixer to "remix" is a very cool feature.

EFFECTS - PRESONUS - The majority of the opinions I've read say the Mackie effects aren't as good, but I don't really have a problem with them. I would like the ability to do 2 reverbs with the Mackie. As it stands, you have 1 verb and 1 delay for each channel. I gave the edge to the Presonus because of this and also because you can tweak the effects in the Presonus mixer.



- The Mackie mixer is really small. I've been keeping mine in a small carry on suitcase. 

- The gain knobs on the Mackie (the only knobs on the Mackie) are very easy to turn. Because mine's not in a true case the knobs are bumped and changed every show. Even if mounted you can bump them when patching in channels. 

- Because the Mackie is small, it's hard to see the channel strip and input gain knob numbers.

- With the Mackie, if your ipad goes you're hosed. This is pretty scary, although less so now that I have an Iphone that can at least make fader movements. I suppose in a pinch you'd just ride the input gain knobs to mix.

So it looks like PRESONUS wins more categories, but it all depends on what's most important to you. If you don't care about multi-track recording, and have or want an ipad anyway, the Mackie is a good choice. Also, just the better EQ options of the Mackie, which are important to me, do make a considerable difference. I'm keeping both and will use the Presonus for shows I want to record. For most gigs though, the Mackie is just more convenient due to it's size (the Presonus is racked in a "might gigrig").


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agedhorse wrote:

So you have 2 I-pads? This also adds to the system cost?

I agree with your thinking.  In the case that you already own one, it doesn't add to the cost.

With respect to the X32, since you can use a PC/Mac/Linux/iOS to control it, there is a really good chance that people would own at least one of these items (albeit less likely that they would own a portable version like a laptop).

The X32 Rack does have a usable control surface, but not a very good one.  More of an emergency backup IMHO.

As an aside, one of the nice things about the X32 line is that you can download the X32 XControl application and learn the mixer for free.  The scenes you create on your PC can be loaded into a real X32 should you ever get one.  I have been able to learn the following by this method:

  1. Assign colors, icons, and channel names to the scribble strips
  2. Create efx sends and returns with multiple efx
  3. Adjust the various efx in the unit
  4. Assign a 31 band stereo EQ to the insert on the main L/R outs
  5. Assign auxes for my IEM box inputs
  6. Create DCA group control for groups like "all vocals", etc
  7. Channel controls like the 4 band PEQ (with an additional LPF making it more like a 5 band), compression, gating, etc.
  8. Using the matrix mixes and XLR outputs to create a 3 band stereo cross-over (I was just curious since I use powered speakers with cross-overs built in ;) ).
  9. Creating stereo channels
  10. Creating scenes and assigning a MIDI control change to select the scene
  11. Show a full meter bridge on the remote monitor in full screen for all inputs
  12. Adjusting sends for different auxes and efx by using the "sends on faders" button
  13. Setup mute groups (don't think I will use them, but they are easy enough to setup)
  14. Setup record to USB for the L/R outputs
  15. Setup record to multi-track via Card
  16. Use recordings of multi-track as input for virtual sound check and scene creation.

Does anyone know if any of the other new digital mixers have apps you can run on a PC to get to know the mixer capabilities?

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