Low Budget Tracking?

[JeffLearman]

The main reason you might want a DAW rather than Audacity is for "comping". That's short for "compositioning" or something like that. What it means is you record, say, four tracks -- four attempts, all of which you like well enough to keep. Without comping, you'd just pick the best of the four. With comping, for every phrase, you pick the track with the best phrase, and mute the other four tracks for that phrase. When you're done, you render the four tracks to a single track, and bingo.

 

On a good DAW this should be easy. It might or might not be in Audacity.

 

Other than that, the only reason to use a DAW rather than Audacity would be if you want to do more than simply record a bass track for someone else. If that's as far as you'd go, then you really don't need a full-featured DAW.

[RoadRanger]

Thanks learjeff, all good stuff . I hadn't really thought ahead much to doing punch-ins, I guess Reaper can do it automatically if you set a region which is pretty cool. Your description of comping sounds more like the right way to do that these days. I don't think my tracks have to be especially clean for this project - it's what I would call "dirty blues", buzzy and unclean is not just OK but perhaps preferred .

 

I have to read up a bit on the whole zero-crossings and/or crossfade punch-ins these farncy-arse DAWs can do - I last recorded on a half-inch-tape eight track back when dinosaurs still roamed the earth LOL.

[MikeRivers]

The I/F seems to be working fine. Just for the record I have used Reaper and Audacity for simple tasks before and obviously could go that way. As for CuBase, I believe it would be quite the PITA to uninstall and re-install with the licensing BS. I think I'd have to un-license it before I uninstall it or I'd lose the license ? Studio One lite is another option, as are several other "free" or low cost Windoz programs.

 

Anyways as a EE/CS myself this is WAY too much BS for the simple task I want to do - I can now see why hardware multitracks still sell like crazy.

 

Hardware multitracks aren't selling like crazy. But are you trying to do this with an iPad? Why make it hard for yourself?

 

I'm probably the most anti-DAW person on this forum. I don't use one unless I have to (I'm happy with my Mackie HDR24/96 hardware multitrack, but they don't make 'em like that any more) but I'm continually amazed at what works if you just let it. But you need to understand some fundamentals, and as an EE/CS and a clue as to how multitrack recording works, you should be able to get what you need to know pretty quickly. Audacity is not the right program for what you want to do. Reaper is. Studio One Free could be, although it tries to keep you from thinking too much for yourself. Cubase is one program that nearly everyone says is difficult to learn and doesn't work well for you until you tame it.

 

Don't fight this job with the wrong weapons.

 

[RoadRanger]

I actually owned an SDR24/96 at one time but never really used it. I did load up Studio One Free yesterday, I think I have a license for it somewhere around here if I decide to go with it. Cubase is wiped along with it's funky copy protection. Turned out it would go a lot further into the boot process if I disabled my virus protection, but it still crashed and that sure wasn't giving me the warm-and-fuzzies LOL. I did try deleting it and reloading but no joy. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

As for iOS I have three iPads and the DL1608 I can use as an I/F - plus the CCC I was using with a MIDI keyboard. And I would like to mess about some more with Auria .

[Beck]

Turned out it would go a lot further into the boot process if I disabled my virus protection, but it still crashed

 

I forgot to mention this earlier, but on a side note you shouldn't have active virus protection on any PC used for a DAW. That is, it shouldn't running in the background. Only use virus programs that you can run manually on a schedule. The process list may or may not tell you that its running. You have to go deeper than that to see everything running in the background that could be causing issues. It's just one more thing that can cause problems. (Will cause problems)

[RoadRanger]

I forgot to mention this earlier, but on a side note you shouldn't have active virus protection on any PC used for a DAW. That is, it shouldn't running in the background. Only use virus programs that you can run manually on a schedule. The process list may or may not tell you that its running. You have to go deeper than that to see everything running in the background that could be causing issues. It's just one more thing that can cause problems. (Will cause problems)

Yah, no prob switching it off when recording - but I'm not going to be running any crap software that crashes during initializing just because the virus protection is on.

I suppose a newer version that 5 would work but why then are they still shipping this old version at all?

[CTStump]

I actually owned an SDR24/96 at one time but never really used it. I did load up Studio One Free yesterday, I think I have a license for it somewhere around here if I decide to go with it. Cubase is wiped along with it's funky copy protection. Turned out it would go a lot further into the boot process if I disabled my virus protection, but it still crashed and that sure wasn't giving me the warm-and-fuzzies LOL. I did try deleting it and reloading but no joy. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

As for iOS I have three iPads and the DL1608 I can use as an I/F - plus the CCC I was using with a MIDI keyboard. And I would like to mess about some more with Auria .

 

You probably already know this, Studio One free is a closed system with no VST support however the onboard effects are pretty decent in my opinion.. If you want that you have to jump up to Producer. I use the Professional version myself and of all the DAW's I have it's the easiest to get up and running in that said, I came to it after using Sonar, Cubase, Sampiltude and others so I already waded through the DAW system before I got it so to me it may be simple but in your case it could be a little harder.

 

I find it to be the most stable at the moment given it's age compared to others on offer. I guess with any thing the more you work with it the more proficient you get and it doesn't hurt to read the Manual but in my case with Studio One I was able to get up and running pretty quick.

 

Good luck with what ever works for ya.

[RoadRanger]

^ Thanks! I do have a license for the "Artist" version somewhere around here but that doesn't have VST support either . Not a big deal for this usage though, I don't know if I even need any of the "Artist" functionality...

[JeffLearman]

Thanks learjeff, all good stuff . I hadn't really thought ahead much to doing punch-ins, I guess Reaper can do it automatically if you set a region which is pretty cool. Your description of comping sounds more like the right way to do that these days. I don't think my tracks have to be especially clean for this project - it's what I would call "dirty blues", buzzy and unclean is not just OK but perhaps preferred .

 

I have to read up a bit on the whole zero-crossings and/or crossfade punch-ins these farncy-arse DAWs can do - I last recorded on a half-inch-tape eight track back when dinosaurs still roamed the earth LOL.

Right, when you have unlimited tracks, there's no need to punch in.

 

You also don't have to worry about zero crossings or crossfades if you comp by selecting whole phrases with silence between. Alternately, on a "good note" zoom in and capture the attack of a note and crop the stuff before that (with a tiny fade-in to avoid a click) and on the preceding note, just kill it (fade out quickly) just as the new good note starts. In any decent DAW this is really easy to do. I don't know how easy it is on Audacity. But I'm pretty sure Audacity can easily handle muting tracks on a per-phrase basis, and you don't need to worry about crossfades or crossings if you put them all where there's already silence (or near silence).

[MikeRivers]

Right, when you have unlimited tracks, there's no need to punch in.

 

Yeah, assuming you have unlimited time to edit the unlimited number of tracks. For quick fixes, a punch-in is always quicker, and setting up an auto-punch region can make a tight punch easier. If they can't do it right in a couple of tries, it's time to practice, revise the part so they can do it, or get someone in who can do it.

 

You also don't have to worry about zero crossings or crossfades if you comp by selecting whole phrases with silence between.

 

This is good editing practice. It's nice to know that you can do an "impossible" edit but you should save those for the times when there isn't a better solution, like singing a four word phrase over rather than trying to capture and replace a syllable of one of the words. Nothin's so good that it MUST be saved.

[JeffLearman]

Yeah, assuming you have unlimited time to edit the unlimited number of tracks. For quick fixes, a punch-in is always quicker

Actually, with n-Track, I found I could comp a phrase faster than setting up and doing a punch in. Not so with Reaper MIDI tracks, though I'm not sure I'm doing it the best way. (There are so many options, but none of them quite does the simple thing I want.)

[MikeRivers]

Actually, with n-Track, I found I could comp a phrase faster than setting up and doing a punch in. Not so with Reaper MIDI tracks, though I'm not sure I'm doing it the best way. (There are so many options, but none of them quite does the simple thing I want.)

 

I'm speaking from the analog world (and the digital world made to work just like the analog world) where if I'm set up to record, I'm set up to punch in. But also, I'm speaking from the perspective of an engineer in the control room working with a player or singer somewhere else. If I was doing both the performing and engineering, I'd have to take another approach. One nifty trick is to set up the DAW (and I can do this with my Mackie hard disk recorder, too) to loop around the section that needs fixing, then set it to record each pass on a new track. Then I can start the loop, go into the studio, and repeat that section until I think I got enough good pieces to put something together, then go to edit it. But of course when you have a bunch of takes, you need to listen to all of them carefully. You may have one that's good enough as is and you can shove it in with a single drag-and-drop. But if you want to take a few words from one take, a word from another take, and a bit from a third take, that takes time and decision-making.

 

 

[JeffLearman]

But of course when you have a bunch of takes, you need to listen to all of them carefully.

Yeah, no kidding! Who was it here -- maybe you -- who offered the wise words of wisdom that it's a good idea to actually make decisions rather than constantly trying and keeping every option open!

 

You're also right that I'm thinking from the home-boy perspective. I've been recording since the late 70's, but almost always at home and recording myself. On those rare occasions when I'm only doing one role (engineer or musician) I really do love it. It's hard (for me, anyways) doing both at the same time. Hell, for me it's hard just to play a good note or two!