CAKEWALK SONAR 5 PE (DAW software)

[Anderton]

>

That explains a lot, I like Voxengo plug-ins. And yes, it is indeed a nice addition!

[ZenFly]

Craig,

I got the MTC to work! It took some experimenting, but it's all good now got the code showing up on the DM3200 meter bridge and all woop!

BTW Sonar P5 rules!

Perfect Space is a fine addition as well.

[Anderton]

>

Well don't leave us in suspense...what made the difference in getting it to work?

[ZenFly]

Craig,


I hooked up a midi in and out to the DM3200 (in addition to the USB).
There were about 5 screens to set up in SOnar and a couple in the DM3200 and Voila! it all works.

Much of this insight came from this pdf File

http://homepage.mac.com/mccormick_mack/.Pu...l%20Surface.pdf

that was posted on the Cakewalk Sonar forum by a DM24 owner.

A good chunk of the problem was that I had missed one screen in Sonar for directing the MTC to the midi out.

I think the main lesson was the USB connection was unable to send/recieve the MTC...at least for me, whereas the midi cable in/out works on the DM3200.

live and learn

Loving this desk!

[freddie_tane]

Has anyone using Sonar and Tascam
FW-1884 noticed that the Master fader
goes to a different 0 setting -
if you use the hardware "Master 0 db"
button it goes to one spot, if you use
the Sonar Snap-to (double-click), it
goes to a slightly higher position.

Any thoughts on why that could be?

Gonna post this over on the Tascamforums as well ...

- ft

PS - Thanks for the review - convinced me
that I need the S5 upgrade sooner
than later, so got with my Sweetwater
sales and it's here!

[Bhagavat]

Can somebody tell me how good ASIO implementation in Sonar 5 is?

Can I get 0 latency with the appropriet sound card?

Is it better to use WDM drivers or ASIO?

Thanks

[doug osborne]

Originally posted by Bhagavat Can somebody tell me how good ASIO implementation in Sonar 5 is? Can I get 0 latency with the appropriet sound card? Is it better to use WDM drivers or ASIO? Thanks

 

 

S5 works great with ASIO and my RME Multiface.

 

0 ms latency is theoretically impossible (cards that give Zero Latency Monitoring let you monitor through the audio interface, not the software/computer). I can run small projects at 1.5 ms, typically record at 7-10 ms, and mix at my highest setting.

[AmpliFuzz]

Hello everybody, first post here

First off, mad props to the Cakewalk team - this is indeed a seriously impressive update. I've never used Sonar before, but this may well be the time to switch.

As a Sonar noob I'd like a quick feature check: does 5 PE have latency compensation on busses? Beat Detective-like features? A adjustable delay-compensated I/O plugin to use outboard processing in the FX chains? How are the advanced audio editing capabilities compared to SX/Nuendo 3 and Samplitude? How many Video tracks?

Thanks,
AF

[Anderton]

 

 

Yes, all tracks and buses.

 

 

 

No. There's a Sonar-compatible program that does the same sort of thing, as I recall...I'm not a big fan of that type of process so I never really looked into it.

 

 

 

No, if you mean like how Cubase SX does. Of course you can use the same basic procedure to compensate for delay, but it's not at all "automated."

 

 

 

Haven't used Nuendo, but the pitch stretching technology is equivalent. Cubase/Nuendo don't have anything like V-Vocal pitch correction though, although Sam 8 does. Could you be a little more specific about what you mean by "adbancred" audio editing?

 

 

 

One, with thumbnails and a video window. It's probably worth mentioning that I've thrown a lot of different video formats at Sonar, and it does't hiccup.

[Anderton]

 

 

It depends on the drivers. If your sound card has better ASIO drivers, use ASIO. If the WDM drivers are better, use them instead. I use the Creamware SCOPE card, it seems the performance is pretty much the same with either one. So I think the performance has more to do with elements other than Sonar. However, some Sonarians insist that a superb WDM driver will outperform a superb ASIO driver somewhat....just passing along some other people's opinions!

[AmpliFuzz]

Thanks, Craig!

> No. There's a Sonar-compatible program that does the same sort of thing, as I recall...I'm not a big fan of that type of process so I never really looked into it.

I tried googling around without much success ... do you mean Beat Quantizer? BTW, all the native DAWs on PC are still struggling with that, so getting it done right in Sonar sooner than later would be quite the godsend.

> No, if you mean like how Cubase SX does. Of course you can use the same basic procedure to compensate for delay, but it's not at all "automated."

So you can insert outboard into a track's FX chain but the delay compensation is up to you by nudging by the right amount, right?

Could you be a little more specific about what you mean by "adbancred" audio editing?

'Advanced' was misleading, sorry. I meant your standard Pro Tools slice & dice tools. I know Cubendo and Samplitude are up to par (even superior in spots) while LAW 5.5 lagged behind and I wanted to know where Sonar falls in that regard.

And I forgot to ask about automatic crossfades and audio quantize (Audio Warp-like in SX) functions.

[doug osborne]

Originally posted by AmpliFuzz ... And I forgot to ask about automatic crossfades and audio quantize (Audio Warp-like in SX) functions.

 

 

Automatic crossfades, yes.

 

Audio quantize, no.

 

Audio editing, no. If you have Sound Forge, Wavelab, or another editor, Sonar integrates that pretty well. You select a clip, send it to the external editor, save it, and the edited clip is re-imported in-place.

[JBenson]

I'm seriously considering Sonar, so thanks Craig, for this review.

One thing I'm wondering about, not sure if any DAW can do this, but does Sonar have a function where you can compare different mixes quickly.

On a Roland VS workstation, for example, you can take a snapshot of the complete mix, then you can do a completely different mix (or mixes), using different takes, effects, EQ, automation, and so on, and then at the press of a button, instantly switch between mixes.

This is very handy if you want to experiment with different ideas, either for the complete song, or just a section.

How do you do this in Sonar?

[doug osborne]

Originally posted by JBenson ...you can do a completely different mix (or mixes), using different takes, effects, EQ, automation, and so on, and then at the press of a button, instantly switch between mixes. This is very handy if you want to experiment with different ideas, either for the complete song, or just a section. How do you do this in Sonar?

 

 

I'm not Craig, but I can think of a few ways to do this.

 

One would be to use "Save As" to make a different project, leave them both open, and toggle between them in the Window tab.

 

The other would be to copy all tracks and paste them in the same project. Archive all of the duplicated files, listen to the originals, archive the originals, un-archive the dupes (all done with simple context menu clicks), and keep going back and forth until one of the sets of tracks is what you want them to be.

[freddie_tane]

Sure, another way might be ...

What is a mix? In Sonar it is writing
a (stereo) .WAV file to disc.

What does Sonar work with best?
(stereo) .WAV files.

If you wrote your first and second
mix to disc, then started a new
project, and imported both mixes -
one to track 1 (stereo) and
second to track 2 (stereo),
lined up from time 0 ,
you could A/B the mixes in real
time - heck, you could even
take section A from mix one
and mute section B, and take
section B from mix two - probably
down to the sample level.

My 2 cents.

- Freddie

Originally posted by doug osborne I'm not Craig, but I can think of a few ways to do this. One would be to use "Save As" to make a different project, leave them both open, and toggle between them in the Window tab. The other would be to copy all tracks and paste them in the same project. Archive all of the duplicated files, listen to the originals, archive the originals, un-archive the dupes (all done with simple context menu clicks), and keep going back and forth until one of the sets of tracks is what you want them to be.

 

[JBenson]

Originally posted by doug osborne I'm not Craig, but I can think of a few ways to do this. One would be to use "Save As" to make a different project, leave them both open, and toggle between them in the Window tab. The other would be to copy all tracks and paste them in the same project. Archive all of the duplicated files, listen to the originals, archive the originals, un-archive the dupes (all done with simple context menu clicks), and keep going back and forth until one of the sets of tracks is what you want them to be.

 

 

The "Save as" idea seems like it could work.

 

So you can have these "different" projects open and active at the same time? Can you copy between them? Would having a number of projects open with plugins and everything affect the computer?

 

Your archive idea, I'm afraid I don't get what you're talking about on that one.

 

Thanks.

[JBenson]

Originally posted by freddie_tane Sure, another way might be ... What is a mix? In Sonar it is writing a (stereo) .WAV file to disc. What does Sonar work with best? (stereo) .WAV files. If you wrote your first and second mix to disc, then started a new project, and imported both mixes - one to track 1 (stereo) and second to track 2 (stereo), lined up from time 0 , you could A/B the mixes in real time - heck, you could even take section A from mix one and mute section B, and take section B from mix two - probably down to the sample level. My 2 cents. - Freddie

 

 

This would certainly be quick as far as A/Bing, and you could edit between them, but I'm thinking more of wanting to be able to do this as you go so you can make changes and tweaks.

[doug osborne]

Originally posted by JBenson The "Save as" idea seems like it could work. So you can have these "different" projects open and active at the same time? Can you copy between them? Would having a number of projects open with plugins and everything affect the computer? Your archive idea, I'm afraid I don't get what you're talking about on that one. Thanks.

 

 

As you switch between open projects, the project with focus will play. Somewhere in Sonar there is a menu preference to tell the program to only allow one open project at a time...make sure this isn't checked.

 

You can copy between them.

 

The extra project will increase the load on the CPU by the idle CPU usage of the original project - sometimes this 5-6% can make a difference, so be careful.

 

Archive - if you archive a track, it gets muted and will not suck CPU, but it can be un-archived at any time. Just right-click on the track (or any number of tracks) and choose "Archive." First clone the tracks to be archived (in S5, you can clone any number of tracks at once - in earlier versions, you have to do them one at a time). If you put all of the cloned tracks in one folder, you can just archive or un-archive the folder.

[JBenson]

Originally posted by doug osborne As you switch between open projects, the project with focus will play. Somewhere in Sonar there is a menu preference to tell the program to only allow one open project at a time...make sure this isn't checked. You can copy between them. The extra project will increase the load on the CPU by the idle CPU usage of the original project - sometimes this 5-6% can make a difference, so be careful. Archive - if you archive a track, it gets muted and will not suck CPU, but it can be un-archived at any time. Just right-click on the track (or any number of tracks) and choose "Archive." First clone the tracks to be archived (in S5, you can clone any number of tracks at once - in earlier versions, you have to do them one at a time). If you put all of the cloned tracks in one folder, you can just archive or un-archive the folder.

Quick reply, thank you!

Okay, great, this is sounding pretty easy and doable . Although the CPU thing worries me as my projects tend to get pretty bloated.

I suppose the archive way might be the best since there would be no hit at all on the computer no matter how many folders of cloned tracks you have, right?

Is archiving and unarchiving instantaneous? And does it reflect in the mixer?

Thanks!

[Anderton]

First of all, great answers Doug.



Well not INSTANTANEOUS (you have mute for that), but quick enough. The point of archive is to "disconnect" from the CPU, thus lightening the processor load, so it takes a few milliseconds to reconnect.



If you want a track not to show up in mixer, to specifically need to hide it.

BTW I do the "save as/have to projects open" thing fairly often when doing remixes, it works fine. But if you're only changing a few tracks, it makes sense to copy them and toggle between the options to see what you like.

[RichardT]

Thanks Craig and the Cakewalk guys for a fabulously useful thread.

I am one of those Logic on the PC users for whom the time has come. I'm looking primarily at Sonar and Cubase SX3

Any improvement in Sonar 5 to the scoring abilities ? I looked at demo version of producer version 4 and the score production seemed to be quite limited, though I didn't go into every nuance.

Eg, stave splitting seems to work only on a fixed split note; SONAR doesn't know about the pitches of instruments, eg trumpet in Bb and adjust the displayed pitches accordingly; only triplets are supported, no other tuplets, and then only when all three notes are present, eg triple patterns with rests are not supported.

Cubase scoring looks much better but SONAR looks to be better in other ways and is cheaper and includes some great addons and plugins.


SONAR is what I really would like to buy, but I fear the scoring is a real limitation. I might be able to get away with it if scores can be exported and edited with some other tool, or an add-in score editor is available. Are either of these possible ?

thanks
Rich

[Anderton]

Okay, I am NOT "Mr. Expert on Scoring," so I hope others can chime in.

I work with a publishing company that does a lot of sheet music. They don't consider any of the DAWs as adequate, they use programs designed specifically for sheet music. I think that if you want engraving quality notation, you would need to do the export/import thang. Comments, anyone?

[Bhagavat]

I've heard that they were planning to implement some improvements in the area of scoring but there weren’t enough requests to justify this effort. If you are planning to request this feature then me and some of my friends who want to cross grade to Sonar will back you up. We also need advanced scoring features.

Thanks

[JBenson]

Originally posted by Anderton First of all, great answers Doug. > Well not INSTANTANEOUS (you have mute for that), but quick enough. The point of archive is to "disconnect" from the CPU, thus lightening the processor load, so it takes a few milliseconds to reconnect. > If you want a track not to show up in mixer, to specifically need to hide it. BTW I do the "save as/have to projects open" thing fairly often when doing remixes, it works fine. But if you're only changing a few tracks, it makes sense to copy them and toggle between the options to see what you like.

Thank you Craig, Doug, and Freddie!

[RichardT]

Originally posted by Bhagavat I've heard that they were planning to implement some improvements in the area of scoring but there weren’t enough requests to justify this effort. If you are planning to request this feature then me and some of my friends who want to cross grade to Sonar will back you up. We also need advanced scoring features. Thanks

 

 

Bhagavat - I found this thread re scoring - we're not alone!

 

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=584933&mpage=1&key=scoringﱂ