MACKIE ONYX 400F (audio interface)

[Music Calgary]

I think that the future of host development is to fold in quality mastering options, but we're not there yet, with the exceptions mentioned above.

I think you're 100% on the money there. But the mastering aspect is just one obvious dimension of limitation vis-a-vis making Sonar the sole audio editor within a recording studio. Different tools do different things well. For example Sonar will never have *all* the features of Wavelab. It's simply not going to happen. No matter what, (as long as they both remain in active development) Wavelab will always feature functionality which is beyond the limitations of Sonar.

I already said I didn't master in Sonar

I should have been more specific. Doesn't have to be by you. Any track.

[MikeRivers]

Originally posted by Music Calgary I think you're 100% on the money there. But the mastering aspect is just one obvious dimension of limitation vis-a-vis making Sonar the sole audio editor within a recording studio.

Why single out Sonar? I doubt that it would occure to me to use it as an editor in the classical sense. Its strength is in recording and arranging, and I guess these days, mixing. I have three programs that I use for editing (that is, putting recorded pieces together) and each one has its strengths and weaknesses. I don't don't try to fix eveything with the same hammer - why rag on Sonar for not doing something that another program does better?

 

Is this all about "With the Onyx 400F driver, you can't go to another program to edit so you'd better have one that doesn't require you to do that."?

 

I thought so.

[Music Calgary]

Surprise, surprise! Another year gone and still no working drivers + no response from Mackie.

Happy new year everyone.

[vr2oso]

Wow, I just spent the last 3 days going through this thread! Anyways for boxing week I went out to purchase the TC Electronic Konnekt 24D, mainly because I’ve heard good things from the other pro review, but also because the other main contender, the 400F, had several issues that I’d read about here. Unfortunately the store I went to didn’t carry the Konnekt, but I was recommended the 400F. The dealer (whom I have a solid relationship with) had sold a lot of them and had never had any issues reported to him. So… I took the plunge. So far I can say that I’m glad I did.

I had previously owned the Motu 828 mkII with much success until it committed “hari kari” on itself. Anyways I think the sound of the pres are much better than the motu. Just for giggles I bought a grace 101 to do some A/Bing on the pres and they’re pretty similar, except it seems that the grace places everything in the mix a bit better whereas the 400F makes each part sound separate from each other (not sure if that makes sense, but it’s the best way I could put it). Since the tonal quality is almost identical otherwise I’m not sure if I’ll keep the grace, but I got some more tests to do. I’m also going to try an a/b/c with the Focusrite Voicemaster Pro as well.

As far as the issues that I’ve been having, it’s been nothing major. No whine, no phantom power noise. There is that popping noise, but I’ll just turn off my monitors first (no biggie). I did have an issue running multiple applications at the same time. I use Nuendo 2 as my main app, but I had difficulty running Guitar Rig 2 at the same time – Guitar Rig would crash when loaded up. I tried what Craig said about finding a “sharing ASIO” option and found it – in Nuendo it’s “release ASIO in background”. Now I am able to run Guitar Rig 2 with Nuendo. I’ve also been successful using melodyne, wavelab, and windows media player at the same time as Nuendo has been open.

However I am experiencing some unresolved issues. Midi recording is off time. Latency while monitoring is fine, except the actual recorded notes are placed an eighth note earlier than where they should be. Making things stranger is that this isn’t consistent. Sometimes it’ll work fine, and others I’ll get that shift. The audio, however, has had no latency issues.

The other issue is that I’m getting audio dropouts even though the processing meter is near the bottom. It doesn’t happen all the time, but it usually happens in the same places (like when a bunch of instruments come in at the same time). I have barely any processing on the tracks yet, so this shouldn't be happening. So far all the issues have been due to the audio apps and not the 400F itself, so I’m confident that a bit more fiddling will fix the problems. Would more RAM help, or is this based solely on the processer on the motherboard? I have 1 gig now.

Please feel free to offer suggestions on how to fix them….

Thanx for the pro review and I’m glad I picked up the 400f. Maybe I just got lucky with a good one?


P.S. Sorry for the length... I just hope you find it useful.

[aboammar]

Hi every one, and happy new year ...


I am a new member, and this is my 1st post ...

First, I would like to thank Mr. Anderton very much, for his time, amaizing effort, and help that he provide in this great forum.

Second, I am siwtching from Pro Tools LE (Digi 002) to Acid Pro 6 based DAW, becouse I can be much more productive with it.

I got Focusrite Saffire about a month ago from Sweetwater, and it was OK, but I have some problem with it, wich Focusrite could not solve. SO, I am returing the interface for a replacment with a better unit. I have done some serach, and so far, it seems I will go with Onyx 400F. My mian concern are the sonic quality, durabilty, and stability (problems-free in other word)

I think Onyx400F meets this requirments becouse it is a quality product, but has any one tested it with Acid 6 Pro? I want to be 100% sure that it will work with Acid 6 Pro with no problem (Using ASIO driver). If nobody did this test, can you Mr. Anderton do this for me please? I appreciate your help so much. Thanks

Finally, I am using now LG Notebook with Intel Cenrino Due, 2GHz, 1GB RAM, and 160GB. It is powerfull to run Acid 6 Pro,and Vegas 7 very smoothly, but I am planing to buy a new desktop using the new Intel Quad Core CPU, with 4GB RAM, and 500GB total storage HD. Will I see huge performance improvement in my DAW with this new Quad Core CPU?

Many thanks for every one ... :)

[Anderton]

>

Unfortunately, like most hardware review units, this one went back to Mackie after I thought the review was finished (this thread started well over a year ago!) so I don't have one here for testing.

Hopefully someone else can answer your question!

[aboammar]

Oh ... I am sorry ... I did not notic the date

Anyway thank you very much for your reply .... and hoping someone will reply with some information ....

On other hand, what is your final openion about this product, after a year or so has been passed? Do still recomend me to buy it? Swwetwater told me yesterday that this unit had some problem before, but overall they still recomend it. Do you think Macki have updated and solved that problems?

Thanks for your help ...

[aboammar]

Originally posted by Music Calgary Still no progress on the 400F driver... 2 years on the market and still no working driver! The public criticism of the 400F driver is now rampant, sales are stale (according to 2 separate Mackie dealers here) - so Mackie rel Don't let Mackie obfuscate this issue with their slick marketing materials if you are considering the 400F. There is only one point to focus on -> Mackie still provides no properly working drivers for the 400F after 2 years on the market.

Hi ...

I am about to order the Onyex 400F. I will be using it with Acid Pro. I just did not understand, what do you mean, it dose not have a working driver yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I confiused:confused:

[Music Calgary]

Craig said about finding a “sharing ASIO” option and found it – in Nuendo it’s “release ASIO in background”. Now I am able to run Guitar Rig 2 with Nuendo. I’ve also been successful using melodyne, wavelab, and windows media player at the same time as Nuendo has been open.

Nope. You are justing getting Nuendo to "let go off" the driver when another window is active. You aren't getting two apps to share the driver actively which was the point. Right now it is physically impossible on a PC for you to have two audio editing apps active at the same time using your 400F.

Spend some time with the unit before passing judgement on it. Everyone starts with the same story but once you really get down to some nitty gritty with the unit you will definitely regret the driver and the lack of manufacturer support like the rest of us. Go read the Mackie forums, there are no senior users who do not long for a proper driver and/or some response from Mackie. There's a reason for that.

But glad to hear you're enjoying the unit regardless, happy music making!

On other hand, what is your final openion about this product, after a year or so has been passed? Do still recomend me to buy it? Swwetwater told me yesterday that this unit had some problem before, but overall they still recomend it. Do you think Macki have updated and solved that problems?

The 400F has strengths and weaknesses. The raw sound is good. Not the same as a high quality studio preamp but better than many comparably priced units - and certainly good enough to create professional sounding recordings. The weaknesses are well documented in Mackie's forum, if you really care then give it a read. Bottom line for me that makes me not recommend it is that Mackie's support is the worst in the business, you can confirm that in their own forum. (insane) And secondly the driver issue. So Mackie sells you the 400F bundled with Tracktion. Yet if you open Tracktion and try to use the edit with feature, it will not function. To me that is bad design, and bad business. Selling broken gear is just lame.

As of today Mackie has neither fixed the problem(s) nor have they even mentioned when they might. It's been years so I wouldn't hold my breath. There's a good chance they will never release a proper driver for the 400F.

Also if you read Mackie's forum it seems that there is also anecdotal evidence that Mackie has knowingly shipped out several flawed units. I don't doubt that. Mackie has demonstrated a complete lack of concern for some pretty integral issues, so...

Regardless, happy music making. I hope your new card brings you hours of fun and amazement no matter which one you choose.

[Music Calgary]

BTW as for recommendations I'd say if you are in a hurry, rent a 400F for $50 per month at any music store - and then take your time and check out these and buy one instead:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SaffirePro/
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/NRV10

Do yourself a favor and don't rush into a 400F. It is not new technology, it's years old. I would definitely listen to a Saffire pro first - no matter what. And read the features on the NRV10. Either would likely add much more value to your studio than a 400F.

And, unlike Mackie, Focusrite still seems to be a reasonably scrupulous business entity.

*EDIT: OK I checked out that NRV10, got some feedback from a few people who have used them - and I've decided to check one out. If the preamps sound good I'm buying one. The feature list is *AWESOME*. Real time VST effects as inserts on the analog mixer channels? That's insanely cool.

[vr2oso]

Thanks for the best wishes MC...

I'm wondering if your experience with the 400F also included audio dropouts. I've been tinkering with nuendo and the 400f console and can't seem to fix the problem. I'm about to buy another gig of ram (making a total of 2g) in hopes that it will fix it, but I'm not 100% sure that it will.

The problem is that even though I have minimal tracks (7) with only a few UAD plug-ins working, the audio cuts out... never happened with my motu.

Anyone have any thoughts?

[Music Calgary]

I think you are referring to latency drop-outs. So basically just turn down the "buffer samples" in the ONYX control panel when tracking and turn it up when mixing, that should solve your problem.

To be fair I've not had any unusual troubles with the latency on the 400F, it's definitely repsectable.

Although I'm dying to check out the NRV10 if it can apply VST effects to an analog mix in realtime with minimal latency. That's impressive functionality. It's a great time to be alive.

[Isaiah]

I'm getting a bad crackle/popping when using a bass through input 2 into Logic.

It sounds fine through Input 1, but when I put it through Input and turn on the instrument line button and begin to play there is an awful crackle with each note.

Any suggestions?

[uzumaki]

Hi guys

 

please help me decide please

 

I've been having those whine issue with 400F

 

and I've been waiting for a replacement for 3 months now

 

I'm thinking about return the unit and get TC Electronics Konnekt 24D instead

 

I love 400F pre and converter but it takes so long waiting.

 

what do you guys think about Konnekt 24D

 

Thanks

[2Lucy]

I haven't seen any discussion of using the 400F with Pro Tools LE. I realize it can't replace the Digi hardware to become the primary audio interface. Dammit. So am I correct in understanding that I cannot interface a 400F to PT via FireWire at all?

Okay, fine. But I can still hook the 400F to the 002's SPDIF I/O and skip all the 002's analog circuitry, A-D, and D-A, and enjoy improved sound quality and very low-latency monitoring, right? Granted, I could only record 2 discreet channels at a time, and would have to define a single monitor mix (minus the live tracks) within PT. So it goes.

I'm currently using a Focusrite TwinTrak Pro in precisely this fashion. It sounds fine, but not outstanding, and the TT is no big improvement over the 002's pre's or A-D-A. So I'm curious if consensus would agree that upgrading to a 400F would prove a worthwhile improvement over either the 002 or the TT Pro.

Anyone else doing this?

Concerns:

1. I've read some suggestions of distortion problems using the SPDIF ins or outs (sorry if I'm too lazy to quote them here.) Any reason this should concern me?

2. Should I use the clock in the 400F or in the 002?

3. Can I still run the 400F mixer console GUI on the computer via Firewire alongside Pro Tools without conflicts?

Guess that's all I got. FWIW, the computer is a Dell XPS400 3GHz Pentium-D, 4GB RAM, Win XP.

I'd love to hear from any Pro Tools users. The rest of ya go ahead an' gimme {censored} if you gotta.

[Badside]

Awwww crap...

 

I need to buy a portable computer... can't find one with XP anymore (all have Vista), but surprise: no Vista driver from Mackie.

 

Now I'm mad

[rowe]

Awwww crap... I need to buy a portable computer... can't find one with XP anymore (all have Vista), but surprise: no Vista driver from Mackie. Now I'm mad

You should check for PC/laptops that are sold to Businesses versus Consumers. Many businesses haven't bought into the Vista thing yet so many manufacturers that sell to the Business community still have XP machines available.

[zed2007]

I had read this whole thread before going against my gut feeling to buy the onyx. I said, the only reason I read about interface and other aspects to get the sound and if I get better sound I would happily accept some inconvenience.
I have used it for 1 month. At first I was happy, the sound was definitely better than my previous interface.
But, after passing some days not being able to play winamp while running cubase bothering me a lot. Cause i do a lots of jam with songs and record that.
it was a known issue for me.
Whats now bothering me is that, apparently I can't seem to run 96 khz 24 bit in cubase. I have checked every way, updated the new driver.
It simply doesn't run.
Although, I am quite happy with the sound but I expect to run the interface with 24 bit 96 khz.
A month is gone, I donno now, turnkey will take it back or not.
I always trusted mackie products. its a shame whats going on with this product.

[GeorgeG3]

Version 3.2.8 Onyx 400F Update is now available: http://www.mackie.com/products/400f/update.html

[SteveE9C6]

http://www.mackie.com/products/400f/update.html

 

I suggest you all update to this version. This addresses multiple issues and works just fine. You can use either WDM or ASIO and can run multiple applications at the same time. I have been using the CEntrance Universal Driver for some time but I like this better as it restores the Mixing Matrix.

[SteveE9C6]

Fact is that your 400F does have problems, you just haven't discovered them yet. For example, here's one way in which your unit doesn't function as intended. Your 400F came bundled with Tracktion. Tracktion has a feature to edit audio using an external editor. But the 400F can't do that due to a flaw in the driver, so your hardware doesn't function as intended and that prevents your software from functioning. That's just one of many irrefutable bugs already admitted by Mackie which affect all 400F users, including yourself. FWIW Tracktion works fine with any budget soundcard from any competitive company. Anyhow I realize not everyone edits audio when they record, nor does everyone use Tracktion (so this might not affect you) - but that isn't the point. When Volvo sells you a car with a broken heater you don't just go, "Oh well, it's warm out." you request a repair. And if they don't provide one, you stop buying Volvos. It's important to stand up for what's right, now more than ever IMO.

MC... This is fixed. Thought you might want to know!

[SteveE9C6]

Mines working well too, I just want to be able to use another one.

This is also fixed with the new drivers!

[The new guy her]

With the new stuff that has come out, is this unit supported on Vista? If not is there a way that I could dual boot Vista and Xp and still use my unit? Thanks.

[Dr. Gruv]

Not having read 500+ messages.... (getting that out first)

 

How are people finding mac os x working with the 400f?

 

Both intel and ppc please - i will be switching but still on ppc for now...

 

NO FLAMES please - mike rivers brought up a bunch of design issues and there were also other firewire issues...

have these been addressed?

[Badside]

 

With the new stuff that has come out, is this unit supported on Vista? If not is there a way that I could dual boot Vista and Xp and still use my unit? Thanks.

 

 

The new drivers are XP only.

 

However, users on the mackie forum have discovered that they could run the 400F through Tracktion 3 in Vista.

Then they discovered that once Tracktion was installed... they could even use the 400F outside of it!

 

So you can simply install the demo, active the 400F in it and then use it in the app of your choice.

 

What I don't know is whether the 400F will keep working once the demo time limit is over (is there even a time limit?)