Members wades_keys Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Ego. Market? Getting your names out there? I don't know about YOUR neck of the woods, but around here, getting individual recognition is part of the deal. Just as many people know who Dave Pajo is as know the name of his band. Just as many people know Tom Browning plays in the Pranksters as know the name of the band. So yeah: On keys.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 You might as well just noodle on the guitar. Bass solo. Did a big drum/bass nasty groove at the last gig. It worked too. Sounded pretty good. Threw a little bit of "School Daze" in there and a hint of a Jaco riff or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Well ask yourself this ,, do you think " the married to the crowd model is going to get old in the entertainment business" Its been around since entertainment began. But that said , the band has to stay married to this front man or we are beached. Every model has its downsides. I don't think there are any one-size-fits-all answers. As a general rule, I think that audiences don't really change that much as they age. I think a band playing 70s music with a 70's-band style format (some dead air, lots of ballads, cheezy between-song reparte, etc) can still get by with that basic model if they can find an audience of 50-60-somethings to play to. A band playing to younger crowds has to adapt. I think that the venues like the one you play at which caters largely to retirees will be hiring whatever the older-version of today's "party bands" look like 20-30 years from now. The 30-35-year olds who want to hear "Funky Cold Medina" and other 90's classics from their youths will STILL want to hear "Funky Cold Medina" 30 years from now when they are 60-65. It's not like you hit 65 and suddenly get a hard-on for Margaritaville. People take their music (and the way the expect it to be performed) with them as they age. As far as a frontman who can work a crowd like nobody's business? There's always room in ANY model for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 And that doesn't work even if you have the right wigs and hats! Only way to know is to try. And the only way to improve is to not be afraid to fail. Fear is the enemy of most bands that lack that "it" on stage. So why not take a chance up there? Only way to get better at it is to just do it. I gotta say, I HATE working with uptight-ass people that get a stick in their ass cuz someone got on the mix and maybe got a little goofy. Goddam. It's rock and roll, not a f***g business meeting. I'm gonna roll with it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Who cares? Go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Bass solo.Did a big drum/bass nasty groove at the last gig. It worked too. Sounded pretty good. Threw a little bit of "School Daze" in there and a hint of a Jaco riff or two. Depends on style/genre/venue/etc etc of course, but just keeping a drum beat going between songs is a good way to keep the dance floor full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Market?Getting your names out there?I don't know about YOUR neck of the woods, but around here, getting individual recognition is part of the deal.Just as many people know who Dave Pajo is as know the name of his band. Just as many people know Tom Browning plays in the Pranksters as know the name of the band.So yeah: On keys.... Why do I need to get MY name out there? Unless I'm looking for another band or something... I don't need anyone to say "David is a hot keyboard player". It's MORE than enough that they say "That dude in JumpStart is a hot keyboard player". And that's actually a bit too much. The only goal I'm REALLY working towards here is that they say "JumpStart is a hot band". Having individual recognition is good if you're using past reputation to help draw your present band. But using your (one's) present band to build your (one's) individual recognition? I'd say that's a guy with either a huge ego, an ulterior motive, or a bit of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Depends on style/genre/venue/etc etc of course, but just keeping a drum beat going between songs is a good way to keep the dance floor full. And MY way of getting my band to do that is to get on that mic and keep things going myself if I have to. The thing is, after a while: people get USED to it. Like I know I have a rep for talking to much. SO WHAT? It's who I AM. I laugh it off and keep on going. This is SUPPOSED to be rock and roll and entertainment. I understand there's that circus, vegas "going too far" aspect. But I figure if it ain't contrived and pre-planned, it's coming from an honest place. And that's a good thing in my book. So yeah, I'm going to announce - talk to folks, try and get beers brought up on stage. It's who I am and it's what I do....no fear and it works. Shades make it even better LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Why do I need to get MY name out there? Unless I'm looking for another band or something...I don't need anyone to say "David is a hot keyboard player". It's MORE than enough that they say "That dude in JumpStart is a hot keyboard player". And that's actually a bit too much. The only goal I'm REALLY working towards here is that they say "JumpStart is a hot band".Having individual recognition is good if you're using past reputation to help draw your present band. But using your (one's) present band to build your (one's) individual recognition? I'd say that's a guy with either a huge ego, an ulterior motive, or a bit of both. WE all have ego's. I love how in conversation everyone slams the ego as something that they don't have. Bull{censored}. It's a part of you. It's what keeps you alive. {censored} yeah I have an ego. So do you. Sounds harsh, and if you think I'm an egomaniac, you'd be way off base. But that's cool. Nah, we announce because people need to know our names. It builds rapport I think. We don't do it every gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 WE all have ego's. I love how in conversation everyone slams the ego as something that they don't have. Bull{censored}. It's a part of you. It's what keeps you alive. {censored} yeah I have an ego. So do you. Sounds harsh, and if you think I'm an egomaniac, you'd be way off base. But that's cool. Nah, we announce because people need to know our names. It builds rapport I think. We don't do it every gig. Of course I have an ego. I've just always thought it best to keep it focused towards the larger purpose. I think that mis-placed ego can be a distraction. If I thought having my name announced, putting myself up front more, naming the band after myself, etc etc would help the band be more successful, then I'd do that. I don't think any of that WOULD help the band, so I have no need for it. My ego is served by the band succeeding. Because I know I had a big part in making that happen. I don't really need everyone else to know that to feel good about myself. I have no idea if you're an egomaniac or not. My guess would be "no". And I didn't accuse you of that. (The old you/one debate again?) I'm not sure why you think people NEED to know your names though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 And MY way of getting my band to do that is to get on that mic and keep things going myself if I have to. The thing is, after a while: people get USED to it. Like I know I have a rep for talking to much. SO WHAT? It's who I AM. I laugh it off and keep on going. This is SUPPOSED to be rock and roll and entertainment. I understand there's that circus, vegas "going too far" aspect. But I figure if it ain't contrived and pre-planned, it's coming from an honest place. And that's a good thing in my book. So yeah, I'm going to announce - talk to folks, try and get beers brought up on stage. It's who I am and it's what I do....no fear and it works. Shades make it even better LOL Yeah whatever works. Like I said, if a band has a situation like what TimKeys has where you've got a front man whose banter is part of the SHOW, then obviously that's what you do. And if, for your band and situation, chatting up the crowd a bit between songs works better than a non-stop-music set, then that's what you should do. Whatever works best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Of course I have an ego. I've just always thought it best to keep it focused towards the larger purpose. I think that mis-placed ego can be a distraction. If I thought having my name announced, putting myself up front more, naming the band after myself, etc etc would help the band be more successful, then I'd do that. I don't think any of that WOULD help the band, so I have no need for it. My ego is served by the band succeeding. Because I know I had a big part in making that happen. I don't really need everyone else to know that to feel good about myself.I have no idea if you're an egomaniac or not. My guess would be "no". And I didn't accuse you of that. (The old you/one debate again?) I'm not sure why you think people NEED to know your names though. Honestly I didn't make any executive decision on that, but I don't oppose it either. People want to know the names of the guys on stage, in smaller settings. Often we're mingling at the bar and with audience members between sets: it's not a stand-offish deal at all, like you'd get in the 80's or maybe at a casino or big rock club with backstage area and whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Yeah whatever works. Like I said, if a band has a situation like what TimKeys has where you've got a front man whose banter is part of the SHOW, then obviously that's what you do. And if, for your band and situation, chatting up the crowd a bit between songs works better than a non-stop-music set, then that's what you should do.Whatever works best. Non stop music would probably work better for us. But if the pause is awkward, it's best to IMO get on the mic and keep folks attention than to let the silence endure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 I don't think there are any one-size-fits-all answers. As a general rule, I think that audiences don't really change that much as they age. I think a band playing 70s music with a 70's-band style format (some dead air, lots of ballads, cheezy between-song reparte, etc) can still get by with that basic model if they can find an audience of 50-60-somethings to play to. A band playing to younger crowds has to adapt. I think that the venues like the one you play at which caters largely to retirees will be hiring whatever the older-version of today's "party bands" look like 20-30 years from now. The 30-35-year olds who want to hear "Funky Cold Medina" and other 90's classics from their youths will STILL want to hear "Funky Cold Medina" 30 years from now when they are 60-65. It's not like you hit 65 and suddenly get a hard-on for Margaritaville. People take their music (and the way the expect it to be performed) with them as they age.As far as a frontman who can work a crowd like nobody's business? There's always room in ANY model for that. I really dont think you quite have a handle on the venue we play. In the winter its retired winter texans,, this spring it will be a mix of spring breakers and left over winter texas who are from places really far north. In the summer is will be mexican nationals, and famlies and young people , In between people. We dont have a age demograhpic we really target , because we have top be able to do it all. This place is known for killer food ,,and entertainment and live music 7 nights a week. our demographic is kinda like a jimmy buffet show... its an all age kinda thing. We dont try to target anyone group really ,,, we just play what we play and they keep comming back because the food is killer and its a good time. You would have a hard time down here if you just tried to target 25 to 35 ,, or 50 to 70. It takes a huge amount of material of all kinds to pull off playing at a place like this. You have to be up to bat 6 and 7 times a week and maybe even go 6 hours by the time its all said and done. Its really hard to pigeon hole this band, because about the time you think you have it figured out ,, you will get thown a curve you completely dont expect. the secret , keep it fun, and make them like you as a band. to do that they have to feel like they know you. Its alot different than getting booked to do a wedding, or a pvt party where you can come in and just start grinding out good dance music, get paid and wait for the next gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Non stop music would probably work better for us. But if the pause is awkward, it's best to IMO get on the mic and keep folks attention than to let the silence endure. Absolutely. I think I said that already? That ANYthing beat dead air. I would just caution against getting too comfortable with it and therefore NOT working towards a goal of non-stop music if that's what you think would work better for you. At one point I was talking between a lot of songs to fill time. It was better than dead air, of course. But I realized that the band was getting TOO comfortable with it. To the point of looking over at me and signaling "SAY something!" so that we would not have dead air. I finally, at one point, just stopped talking and told the guys "don't look at me to fill time--if there's dead air START THE NEXT DAMN SONG!" Only took a couple of long dead pauses for them to get the hint. If I have something I want to say that I think will benefit the show, I'll signal the band to hold up while I say it. Otherwise, just keep going. Now, of course, if something breaks or needs attending to or there's some other legitimate need to fill some time, then that's a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 our demographic is kinda like a jimmy buffet show... That's pretty much what I figured. Music generally geared towards the senior and near-senior crowd that has some appeal to younger folks in the confines of the location. Most resort destinations work the same way. Everybody, of ALL ages, wants to hear a Hawaiian band when they go to Hawaii. That same band playing for those same kids back in their hometown though? Would be a HUGE fail. I suspect they'll always be a market for "Margaritaville" at beach resorts even 100 years from now. Kinda like how a lot of kids get into the Rat Pack when they go to Vegas. But as a general rule, the biggest fans of that stuff are all retirement age or close to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Absolutely. I think I said that already? That ANYthing beat dead air. I would just caution against getting too comfortable with it and therefore NOT working towards a goal of non-stop music if that's what you think would work better for you. At one point I was talking between a lot of songs to fill time. It was better than dead air, of course. But I realized that the band was getting TOO comfortable with it. To the point of looking over at me and signaling "SAY something!" so that we would not have dead air. I finally, at one point, just stopped talking and told the guys "don't look at me to fill time--if there's dead air START THE NEXT DAMN SONG!" Only took a couple of long dead pauses for them to get the hint. If I have something I want to say that I think will benefit the show, I'll signal the band to hold up while I say it. Otherwise, just keep going. Now, of course, if something breaks or needs attending to or there's some other legitimate need to fill some time, then that's a different story. Well, they liked your schtick. Ramp up the cheez factor enough and trust me, they'll find a way to get the song started to shut you up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Well, they liked your schtick. Ramp up the cheez factor enough and trust me, they'll find a way to get the song started to shut you up. I dunno. I think they were just lazy. As long as I was talking, they didn't care WHAT I said. Trust me, most of it was pretty lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 That's pretty much what I figured. Music generally geared towards the senior and near-senior crowd that has some appeal to younger folks in the confines of the location.Most resort destinations work the same way. Everybody, of ALL ages, wants to hear a Hawaiian band when they go to Hawaii. That same band playing for those same kids back in their hometown though? Would be a HUGE fail.I suspect they'll always be a market for "Margaritaville" at beach resorts even 100 years from now. Kinda like how a lot of kids get into the Rat Pack when they go to Vegas. But as a general rule, the biggest fans of that stuff are all retirement age or close to it. Well we are back to you trying to pigeon hole us into a place you want to put us,, but thats not us. You are used to playing in a pigeon hole type band ,,,, we cant do that,, the demographics are too spread out. What would you do if a bunch of kids hit your gig and wanted some kevin fowler? could you do that? How about how about some hendrix? maybe a little willie? we stay away from rap and the dance music , ,but we do have a catalog of material that will wind up pretty well any crowd. Yea we can even do rat pack stuff for your mom and dad. Its a different kind of show ,, but dont think you are gonna pigeon hole it as just a geezer band that plays for grey hairs. We cant take a bar full of texas college kids and send them home way drunker than you can ever imagine lol. One of the big spring break only places is gonna bring in snoop dog for spring break. we wont compete with that venue , but we will have a full bar full of crazy ass kids ,, and they will walk away entertained ,going wow I never had so much fun with a band full of old guys. Its a fun bar and a good band. It would be fun to have you come on down and jump on keys for a night. You would have the time of your life. Its a fun gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Its weird ,, its kinda like being on tour but we never leave ,, the people come to us. No, I get it well. I've worked in or around resort towns pretty much my entire life. I know the peculiarities of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vanlatte Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Its really hard to pigeon hole this band, because about the time you think you have it figured out ,, you will get thown a curve you completely dont expect. the secret , keep it fun, and make them like you as a band. to do that they have to feel like they know you. I struggle to make sense out of most of what you say, but this one is pure lunacy. First you say you can't be pigeonhold after describing yourself as a cliche band, then you say you throw curveballs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chevybusa Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 I work with a bass player who, IMO, overannounces. He's the kind of guy that, when it's his turn to sing a song will announce "Hey, how's everybody doing tonight. Ya'll make some noise. Somebody say Hell Yeah!" and crap like that, stuff I call Eagles Club crap. Anyway, althought I don't like that, I can kinda let it go, but that's not the worst part. If I'm doing a solo, he'll say "Ya'll give it up for (my name) on lead guitar, WHILE I'M STILL PLAYING the solo, not after. To me this is amateur night stuff, and I've asked him repeatedly to cut it out a.k.a. please stop. I've told him that if I play a solo SO WELL that spontaneous applause erupts, then he can feel free to announce my name, otherwise please don't, but he won't listen.Am I being unreasonable that this stuff bothers me? As others have already pointed out, no, you are definitely not being unreasonable and are completely justified. And like others that have posted I definitely think it all depends on the band/frontman/crowd/venue...some guys/bands can pull it off depending on the situation, but as others have said most can't and it almost always comes off as childish and unprofessional. I totally feel your pain, I've been in several bands that had front men that did this kind of nonsense and I always hated it. One that jumps to mind immediately is a singer that would always be doing the kind of stuff mentioned like introducing the members and making all kinds of lame small talk, but in addition he would always tell these absolutely not funny off color jokes...the worst though was that he would try to kick his pathetic game to any hot women that happened to be in the audience, but it was so un-smooth and cringeworthy it wasn't even funny...I mean he would say stuff from the stage like "Hey you...you in the jeans and red top...do you wash your pants in Windex? Cuz I can definitely see myself in them!!! You and me babe, you and me..." and actually be serious!!! Then there was the singer that always tried to "hype" the crowd up and get the audience to get totally into it, and of course get everybody to clap, among other things...oh my God it was cringeworthy!!! He would start bobbing up and down and moving around like he was whirling an imaginary hula hoop and clap and then start yelling "C'mon everyone! Let's get into the GROOVE!!! YEAH!!!!" And of course everyone would just stare at him, there was never even ONCE that ANYONE ever clapped...And there was one bass player I played with that would set up his own mic, so he could do "backing vocals", but of course he never did, he just used it to make all these awkward comments to the audience... As for getting it to stop, it all depends on whether or not they're worth keeping...the folks I knew that did it were otherwise on point, and that was the only bad thing that they brought to the table, so it was definitely worth working on fixing it than booting them and finding a replacement. I'm sure it will be different for every band and front man out there, but what I found worked well was, along with all the other bandmembers, first just jokingly say "dude man you gotta stop that stuff!!!" and just laugh it off. They'll continue it of course, but then after a few times of joking about it, start saying it more and more seriously. It may take a little while longer than you'd like to stop, but I found that was the best way to go as just outright telling them how rediculous it is just leaves them feeling "attacked" and humiliated and they'll continue to do it even more just to spite you. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for being completely upfront and honest and not bull{censored}ting around and I'm always bitching and moaning how 99.99% of all the musicians I've ever met had the complete inability to be "straight up" and completely forward about ANYTHING and avoid any kind of confrontation no matter how minor at all costs, but this is one of the very few situations that I found that gradually easing into it yielded the best results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 I got shut down at the mic in a band I was in years ago. It was okay. Because whether I did that or not didn't matter in the end. The band didn't get any traction. No stage presence. Nothing to really look at. No audience interaction. A few gigs, then fade away. Like so many other bands do. I would ask NewTrail this question: do YOU have a solid track record of leading successful bands into success? If not, then why draw such a hard line? Your band, like most others, probably has other more important issues to attend to. You wanna get pissed at this guy, even blame him for poor response at gigs? You'd be off base. Most people don't pay that much attention to what people are saying over the mic anyway, they really don't. And what I've seen when bands struggle, is you have a bunch of people looking for a reason. So it'll be real tempting to pile on this guy: "if only he didn't run his yap at that last gig". Bull{censored}. Nobody CARES. Be entertaining, play well. Don't sweat this dumb {censored}. Do you have all the gigs you can handle? Are you losing gigs because of this, as in you know for a FACT that this behavior is costing you gigs? Then why sweat it? Get the gigs rolling in, and maintain em. This is just petty dumb {censored} that every band has probably dealt with on some level. Now where'd that mic go LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 I would ask NewTrail this question: do YOU have a solid track record of leading successful bands into success?If not, then why draw such a hard line? Your band, like most others, probably has other more important issues to attend to. You wanna get pissed at this guy, even blame him for poor response at gigs? You'd be off base. Most people don't pay that much attention to what people are saying over the mic anyway, they really don't. For bands that don't give a {censored} and don't really care about going anywhere, then it isn't important. I would suspect that the OP isn't in that catagory (at least not HIM--can't speak for the rest of his band) or he wouldn't be bringing it up. You don't usually hear complaints from the guys who don't give a {censored}. I don't think a band is ever going to go ANYWHERE if you don't cover the basics first. And getting past the 1970s-High School-Talent-Contest level schtick or immature ego stuff that makes guys think "I'm gonna introduce the guitar player WHILE he's playing even if he asked me not to because it draws attention to ME" are the kind of basics that almost should go without saying for anyone over 20 and in a band. Do you have all the gigs you can handle? Are you losing gigs because of this, as in you know for a FACT that this behavior is costing you gigs? What costs a band gigs is rarely attributable to any one thing. The difference between a good band and an average band is getting a HUNDRED little things right. Yeah, saying dumb {censored} over the mic isn't going to cost you a gig. Neither will a bit of dead air. Or dressing poorly. Or having a couple of filler tunes in your set list. But you start adding all those little things together and NOW we're talking about the difference between the good and the average. The best bands get ALL the little {censored} right and they don't sweat it because they took care of it and moved on. THAT'S the way you don't sweat the dumb {censored}---you don't DO the dumb {censored} and therefore you have no reason TO sweat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members callous Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 I really hate it when bands stop after every song and announce the next song. "This next song is called Mustang Sally." *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 I really hate it when bands stop after every song and announce the next song. "This next song is called Mustang Sally."*sigh* "We got any ZZ Top fans in the house tonight!?!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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