MIA Peavey Impulse 12D?

[agedhorse]

 

Have you seen / heard this Aged? Your thoughts? Cheers, B

 

 

Of course, it's pretty much standard operating procedure in the design world. I live it.

[themusician]

 

Of course, it's pretty much standard operating procedure in the design world. I live it.

 

 

Sorry... my message was vague... lol... I meant have you seen / heard these speakers in person/action to be able to offer an opinion on them, their sound and construction compared to other speakers in that price range? Thanks!

 

Cheers,

B

[Al Poulin]

Not sure, but I believe it was a cooling (or lack of) issue. It's been resolved and we are moving forward. As a result of this, I was told today we are implementing some new procedures to prevent this sort of thing in the future .

 

Such as actually testing the speakers at high volume with music for a few hours (while monitoring the temperature) and making sure there is no chance of overheating in normal (and even) more demanding applications? (this is a fairly expensive speaker so users should expect a certain amount of performance and reliability from them)

 

This isn't exactly difficult to test and I don't understand how it could have been overlooked by those actually designing the speaker - or those responsible for giving the OK to send them in production.

 

Al

[agedhorse]

 

Sorry... my message was vague... lol... I meant have you seen / heard these speakers in person/action to be able to offer an opinion on them, their sound and construction compared to other speakers in that price range? Thanks! Cheers, B

 

 

No, I have not. I have heard the ribbon driver on a different flair and it sounded pretty good IMO.

[agedhorse]

Such as actually testing the speakers at high volume with music for a few hours (while monitoring the temperature) and making sure there is no chance of overheating in normal (and even) more demanding applications? (this is a fairly expensive speaker so users should expect a certain amount of performance and reliability from them) This isn't exactly difficult to test and I don't understand how it could have been overlooked by those actually designing the speaker - or those responsible for giving the OK to send them in production. Al

 

Because, Al, you are unaware of all of the different variables involved in testing. Usually, when something like this happens, it's because of 3 or 4 factors coming together for only a small handful of users in an unusual application. It's easy to arm-chair quarterback a product from your living room, but when the rubber meets the road, I doubt you would fare any better. I have 30+ years of alanyzing products for exactly this kind of thing, and occasionally something comes up that a user does that was not ever conceived of when the product was developed.

[Al Poulin]

 

Because, Al, you are unaware of all of the different variables involved in testing. Usually, when something like this happens, it's because of 3 or 4 factors coming together for only a small handful of users in an unusual application. It's easy to arm-chair quarterback a product from your living room, but when the rubber meets the road, I doubt you would fare any better. I have 30+ years of alanyzing products for exactly this kind of thing, and occasionally something comes up that a user does that was not ever conceived of when the product was developed.

 

 

The manual for the 12D does mention that :

 

At least 4" of space is required at all times behind the unit AND that the unit may get very warm to the touch AND that :

 

The unit should not be used in direct sunlight for too long - or it may overheat

 

AND that using the unit in very warm conditions may lead to thermal shutdown.

 

I don't know, but this gives me the impression that Peavey may have had an idea of the possible overheating problems before hand. Only once did users actually experience thermal shutdowns - perhaps in not so demanding situations were changes made.

 

Al

[agedhorse]

Direct sunlight is a problem for many powered speakers, depending on the mechanical aspects of the cooling system and how it's coupled to the visible exposed surfaces. Self-heating is a function of receiving radiation from the sun.

[OneEng]

Soundman,

 

Thanks for chiming in. I hope your nightmares are over now

 

For the record, being a design engineer myself, it has been my experience that the pressure to design to cost targets and to manufacture to cost targets is very stiff. It is a very difficult, high pressure, and largely thankless job.

 

Still, with proper DV (Design Validation) and PV (Production Validation), it is possible to get high quality with low cost ..... within reason of course.

 

I am sure that Soundman and the boys at Peavey did lots of testing and went through several revisions of prototypes before getting to production. Depending on how their organization works, they may have had a different team launch the product than the team that designed the product (I don't allow this in my department since I believe that it creates chimneys ..... and I believe that if engineers know they are going to be stuck out on the production floor answering to an angry plant manager, they tend to design for production with a little more zeal ).

 

Design tolerance stack-up is a well known issue for any seasoned engineer (especially those of us that have gotten caught by it). Thermal issues .... well, you can't transfer heat without a difference in temperature..... that is just how God made the world. In order to make electronics that can operate at higher temperatures, you need either more expensive components (not allowed by your cost targets usually), or you need additional production validation testing which slows the line rate down and costs more money to develop. You can also do what QSC did and run a fan (I wouldn't have ever approved such a design myself).

 

I guess if it were easy, they would have Kelly Temps doing it and I would be out of a job

 

I still haven't heard a pair of these. The next time I go by GC I'll see if I can take a listen to them.

[agedhorse]

Using a fan removes several uncontrolled variables from the equation, including the solar self-heating issue that many convection cooled powered speakers are limited by. For many application,, ESPECIALLY outside in the sun, this may be the only practical way to solve this problem.

[OneEng]

If a Crown K2 can do it without any fins and pushing 2650W (10 years ago as well), it is obviously extremely possible. Passive heat removal is a very understood (and easily modeled with FEA) process. Fans (IMHO) are an easy crutch to lean on, but leave the cab open to atmospheric conditions that ultimately lead to component failure over time.

 

Granted, my K2 never had to deal with direct sunlight.

 

I work in automotive. Electronic control modules have to routinely deal with hot conditions (silly amounts of heat). The failure percentage that is allowed in this market is ..... pretty much ZERO. People simply don't understand it if their vehicle just stops running when it gets hot outside.

 

The fact that the majority of speaker manufacturers are using passive cooling validates that their chief engineers believe as I do that the issues associated with forced air cooling (which you can't design around .... very easily) outweigh that of passive cooling (which you can design around).

 

I was really hoping to hear the Impulse 12D before I purchased my DSR's, but they were MIA (as my OP stated). I would still like to hear them myself as the idea of a ribbon tweeter sounds like an interesting idea and is currently unheard of in this price category.

[VanHalen]

 

I think it's one of those "new model" issues. It was limited to the first production run and they are being modified. I believe it was an over-heating problem.

 

 

That is really disappointing. I think I will wait for a year to buy these so they can get the kinks out.

[guitarharv52]

I have not seen a matching powered sub for this speaker either.I guess it is MIA also.

[dboomer]

 

. I think I will wait for a year to buy these....

 

 

Expect the price to go up $100+. Neodymium prices have had dramatic increases in the last couple of months. Any brands with Neo drivers will be taking a big jump in price very soon.

[DaBender]

I'm not sure what matching means, but there has been a fairly lightweight Impulse sub for years. Of course, there was a different "Impulse" top before these, so maybe we should expect a new sub as well. Peavey doesn't seem to have ever pushed their Impulse line much from what I've seen.

[guitarharv52]

 

I'm not sure what matching means, but there has been a fairly lightweight Impulse sub for years. Of course, there was a different "Impulse" top before these, so maybe we should expect a new sub as well. Peavey doesn't seem to have ever pushed their Impulse line much from what I've seen.

 

 

 

I meant a matching powered sub with the new lightweight amps like in the 12D.

[DaBender]

I haven't seen many powered subs much less than 75 lbs.

 

http://www.sixstardj.com/peim115su.html

[Reticuli]

Soundman, I have some questions for you regarding the Impulse 12D, and considering Behringer's recent forthcoming attitude about problems some of their designs have been having and your commenting on Peavey versus Behringer on various threads, would you be willing to get some actual answers to these?

 

What was the heating issue caused by?

 

How was the heating issue resolved?

 

Why is there no damping material inside the new Impulse 12D lots?  My first ones had it, my new ones don't.  I haven't found anyone anywhere who seems to think that is a good idea, even in spite of the servo feedback on the Scorpion woofer.

 

I had heard Peavey was in the process of improving the amps on these to make them a little quieter.  The newest lot units actually sound like they have more noise, not less.  A tech who worked on my first pair told me the front LEDs where very poorly soldered and re-did the job, along with some hot glue reinforcement.  It was causing faint radio-like noise or pickup.  It's dead quiet now.  The new lot, while not having the radio-like noise, seems to have more hissing (which is oddly directional) and high-pitched ribbon squeal.  Any idea why that might be? 

 

Why does the manual say there is a red LED in the front logo (besides the blue one) for visual indication of clipping?  On the first lots the logo is blue all the time in Signal mode.  On the new lots, the logo is dark and flashes when (I assume) the cab's limiter kicks in.  Still no red.  I see only 2 wires.  How is one supposed to see an indicator of clipping on the first 12Ds?  Is the new function of the blue LED in Signal mode now indicating clipping?

 

Finally, why is there such a lack of low-end on these and such an abrupt roll-off of bass below 90hz?  Is the resonance frequency of the port around 60hz?  Boosting the bass on them to produce a little 60-80hz range is certainly not a pleasing tone in that band.  I'm content using them with a subwoofer, but I'd like to know if this is intentional performance as I described.

 

Thank you for your time.  BTW, I own three of these.