Why Johnny Can't Read

[Stackabones]

http://magazine.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2007/Feb/Why_Johnny_Can_t_Read.aspx

 

Solid advice. Good tips.

 

I know there's a tab vs standard notation war in LL. Both have their uses, but any argument against reading is an argument for ignorance and laziness.

 

[Dubb]

But he's not biased or anything

[bigdaddydave]

My main complaint with Tabs is that there's no way to notate rhythm-you kind of have to know how the music goes first, which is not a problem when learning your favorite tunes. It's kind of like having to know the plot of a book before you read it. Ultimately, though, whether one wants to be illiterate or not is a personal choice.

[gennation]

 

My main complaint with Tabs is that there's no way to notate rhythm-you kind of have to know how the music goes first, which is not a problem when learning your favorite tunes. It's kind of like having to know the plot of a book before you read it. Ultimately, though, whether one wants to be illiterate or not is a personal choice.

 

 

Lately I've been tabbing with the rhythm notation under the tab. It works great for learning stuff and being specific about the fingering, without getting too involved with tab, rhythm AND staff notation. Although, I do a ton of full transcriptions too. There's a few at my lesson site.

[guitarviz]

 

any argument against reading is an argument for ignorance and laziness.

 

 

Well, here are two:

 

1) much of the great guitar music of the past 50 years was made by players who did not read.

 

2) rock is usually played by ear. Consider: when was the last time you saw a rock band up on stage reading music while they played?

[captain average]

i don't have anything against reading music, but i'm not saying it's that important. i can read music, but i'll never be as good at reading as i am at making music that i won't ever write down. which may not be saying much, but {censored} you, too. segovia isn't much to listen to. i'd rather hear mozart on a piano...

you know what? {censored} it. reading's for piano players. all a guitar player needs to know is where to put his fingers and where to plug in.

crowd cheers and goes woo.

uhhh............

listen, you can read music if you wanna play written music. you need to learn how to play the guitar in some manner. written, watching hands, listening and figuring it out. but honestly, 99 percent of music that you gotta read to get anywhere with was written for the piano at least 100 years ago. using your ears is important, but reading's not geared toward the guitar.

[Terje]

http://magazine.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2007/Feb/Why_Johnny_Can_t_Read.aspx Solid advice. Good tips. I know there's a tab vs standard notation war in LL. Both have their uses, but any argument against reading is an argument for ignorance and laziness.

 

I have one major complaint about the article. It isn't very hard to get your reading skills up to a usable level. To get even further, to the point where you can sight read stuff you've never seen before and play them correctly for the first time, that's another thing but even that isn't very hard.

 

Perhaps one of the best thing you can do in order to learn a lot without having to work very hard is to write down your own ideas.

[Terje]

i don't have anything against reading music, but i'm not saying it's that important. i can read music, but i'll never be as good at reading as i am at making music that i won't ever write down. which may not be saying much, but {censored} you, too. segovia isn't much to listen to. i'd rather hear mozart on a piano... you know what? {censored} it. reading's for piano players. all a guitar player needs to know is where to put his fingers and where to plug in. crowd cheers and goes woo. uhhh............ listen, you can read music if you wanna play written music. you need to learn how to play the guitar in some manner. written, watching hands, listening and figuring it out. but honestly, 99 percent of music that you gotta read to get anywhere with was written for the piano at least 100 years ago. using your ears is important, but reading's not geared toward the guitar.

 

I think Frank Zappa said it best when asked if most of the people who played with him knew how to read.

- Only about 5% of them know how to read. The rest have to learn it like a parrot.

 

 

That's what you are, and appearantly all you ever wanna be, a parrot

[captain average]

i can read. it just has no point unless i'm playing bach. you ever try reading a guitar solo? it's a {censored}in pain in the ass. 10 times easier to just hear it and play it by ear. as for my own, i'm sure it'd look like a damn mess to see it on a staff.

[captain average]

oh, and as for your putdown, weaker than your average second grader. first of all, you're parrotting zappa's sentiments. second of all, zappa's a douche.

[Dimebag666]

Just improvise

 

This debate goes on and on. But basically both are good. {censored} sitting down and learning rock or metal songs by notation. That's time consuming and not worth it when guitar pro or tab is 10x better for that. But yes reading is a skill you should try to get because there are some circumstances where it is good to have. Hardly a necessity though if your playing popular music.

[Knottyhed]

Just improvise This debate goes on and on. But basically both are good. {censored} sitting down and learning rock or metal songs by notation. That's time consuming and not worth it when guitar pro or tab is 10x better for that. But yes reading is a skill you should try to get because there are some circumstances where it is good to have. Hardly a necessity though if your playing popular music.

 

Yup - I broadly agree with that...

 

There's alot of reasons to learn music - better understanding of theory, better sense of timing, ability to study 500 years of written music, ability to jump in on a session having never played a track before, ability to quickly notate down your ideas and share them instantly with someone else that reads... the list goes on.

 

If you want to be a session player, you need to read, if you want to play in jazz ensembles or play classical you need to read, but lets face it - if you want to play guitar in a rock band it isn't going to be top of your list of things to learn. Even if you did learn, it'd be pretty useless skill cos nobody around you would understand what you were writting down and nobody around you would pass you a music score to learn.

 

That's not to say that learning to read music won't make you a better musician, but lets face it, you don't have to be a good guitarist to play in a rock band these days, let alone a good musician - it just helps

[Terje]

 

i can read. it just has no point unless i'm playing bach. you ever try reading a guitar solo? it's a {censored}in pain in the ass. 10 times easier to just hear it and play it by ear. as for my own, i'm sure it'd look like a damn mess to see it on a staff.

 

 

Reading solo transcriptions isn't really the main point with learning how to read. Yes, it can be very cluttered. Depends on how it's written though.

[Dubb]

For christ's sake, are we really going to revisit this argument?

[dsimon665]

I like the tips: "Make sure you are reading and not memorizing the songs; play them in different places on the neck after you have learned them in the first position"

 

Its hard not to use a little (or a lot) memorization after you've read through something a couple times...and I usually don't try different places on the neck.

 

I haven't seen that magazine before. They have quite a few articles online and the articles seem pretty good...

[deepblue]

The best tip I gotfor learning how to read is to take a piece, read it and then turn it upside down and play that. NowI can pick up a piece of music and read it like the morning paper. I think the reason Johnny canr read is ADD.

[Jon Chappell]

 

Lately I've been tabbing with the rhythm notation under the tab. It works great for learning stuff and being specific about the fingering, without getting too involved with tab, rhythm AND staff notation. Although, I do a ton of full transcriptions too. There's a few at my lesson site.

 

 

I too usually put rhythms in my tab. And for some types of music, like alternate tunings and fingerpicking, the music staff doesn't even make any sense to try to read. So I'll often do a tab-only transcription, with rhythm notation. (And I can sight read.)

 

Most tab programs (Finale, Sibelius, etc.) have the option for adding the rhythms in the tab staff, though traditionally, rhythm notation isn't included. But rather than bounce between staves to get tab from one and rhythm from another, I'll take 5 or 10 minutes and transfer the rhythms from the music staff to the tab one in pencil.

[Mark Wein]

 

I too usually put rhythms in my tab. And for some types of music, like alternate tunings and fingerpicking, the music staff doesn't even make any sense to try to read. So I'll often do a tab-only transcription, with rhythm notation. (And I can sight read.) Most tab programs (Finale, Sibelius, etc.) have the option for adding the rhythms in the tab staff, though traditionally, rhythm notation isn't included. But rather than bounce between staves to get tab from one and rhythm from another, I'll take 5 or 10 minutes and transfer the rhythms from the music staff to the tab one in pencil.

 

 

I put rhythms in my tab when I handwrite it for a student. You can put the stems in for Finale (which is what I use for my more permanent lessons on my blog or for the in-house publications we teach from in our studio), but sometimes it makes it even harder to read. For most of my online lessons I'll put the music in both standard notation and tab, then make sure the student knows to pay attention to the standard notation for the rhythms...not ideal but it seems to get the point across...

[TheMrDoug]

All of this is great but beyond the first set of scales on the neck finding a tool to provide how to progress into all of the various sharps and flats and how to read more advanced music is what is missing. How to move beyond the 3rd fret when reading music is the challenge.

 

I do not see a post here referencing tools, books, etc. From those who "Can Read" how did you learn, classes, on your own, formal programs etc? Anyone able to help in this area?

 

As almost every song book has both notation and tab in them being able to read music is a huge advantage. You can listen all day long and not hear a quarter rest or the difference between a eight and sixteenth note.

 

As I can read as a "horn" player but not as a guitar player. So am I semi literate?

[raggety]

guitarists are lazy and I should know

 

i taught myself to read, its not so hard as it seems at first, it took me a while to get comfy with it, but it opens up 1000's of tunes that you may never play otherwise.

 

but if you just want to play barres in a rock band and are content with that, its not really worth your effort to learn.

[Mark Wein]

All of this is great but beyond the first set of scales on the neck finding a tool to provide how to progress into all of the various sharps and flats and how to read more advanced music is what is missing. How to move beyond the 3rd fret when reading music is the challenge. I do not see a post here referencing tools, books, etc. From those who "Can Read" how did you learn, classes, on your own, formal programs etc? Anyone able to help in this area? As almost every song book has both notation and tab in them being able to read music is a huge advantage. You can listen all day long and not hear a quarter rest or the difference between a eight and sixteenth note. As I can read as a "horn" player but not as a guitar player. So am I semi literate?

 

I gather that you can read in the open position? There is a really good book by David Oakes called Music Reading for Guitar that starts students in the 5th position, and then expands out from there. If I remember correctly is also goes into key and time signatures pretty completely.

 

I liked the idea of starting in the middle of the neck so much that I used it for my book. That gets the student learning the instrument in a more practical place for most contemporary styles of music, and filling in the rest of the neck is easier to teach by expanding outward from there....

 

Here is David Oakes book: http://www.amazon.com/Music-Reading-Guitar-Essential-Concepts/dp/0793581885/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-7362846-1412739?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189718984&sr=8-1

 

My book is in re-writes getting ready for publication, and is geared more towards getting beginning players reading as well as playing practical rhythm guitar....I'll annoy you guys with it when it is ready!

[raggety]

All of this is great but beyond the first set of scales on the neck finding a tool to provide how to progress into all of the various sharps and flats and how to read more advanced music is what is missing. How to move beyond the 3rd fret when reading music is the challenge. I do not see a post here referencing tools, books, etc. From those who "Can Read" how did you learn, classes, on your own, formal programs etc? Anyone able to help in this area?

 

Try the Frederick Noad Solo Guitar Playing Book 1

 

its what i used to learn (& still am learning from)

www.noad.com

[TheMrDoug]

Thank you for the tips I will check them out, as drives me nuts not to be able to "read" beyond the open position, it is the trying to figure out that next step of why a note is on the 9th fret not the 1st.

[pbaughman]

I've been using a program call master sightreader for the past few weeks.

I really like it.

There is no way for you to memorize the notes... they are all generated randomly. There is lots of customization available too.

[Knottyhed]

I gather that you can read in the open position? There is a really good book by David Oakes called Music Reading for Guitar that starts students in the 5th position, and then expands out from there.

 

I have that book, it's really good